[andyt]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Due process. You need a reason to expel someone.

$1:

"If, despite our requests, this matter is not properly investigated or considered formally as a code of conduct complaint, Dalhousie will send the message that there is no penalty for harming its female students in this way," the letter says.

Sounds to me that due process is being asked for. But the students are suspended the way a cop is suspended while the investigation is ongoing. I certainly don't blame the women that are the objects of these posts to not want to be in the same classroom as these "gentlemen."

[andyt]

$1:

The Royal College of Dental Surgeons of Ontario has asked Dalhousie to give it the names of the men involved, amid mounting pressure to reveal their identities. But the school said Tuesday it has no intention of sharing the names "to protect the privacy and confidentiality of our students."

That is exactly what should happen. Publish their names and have the RCDS investigate these guys - don't prevent them from becoming dentists, but monitor them for some time once they do.

[Unsound]

andyt andyt:

Really? You've talked about wanting to hate fuck and rape women? If these guys had just talked about which of their classmates they'd most like to fuck, I would have no sympathy for people hounding them. Both men and women talk that way, what's called objectification, but is really just normal biology talking. But hate fucking and raping, not so much.

As some point, ie when she gets older, men, maybe even women, will talk about your daughter and how they'd like to fuck her. Seems to just be part of the territory. But how would you feel, or your daughter feel, if people she was in class with every day, talked about hate fucking or raping her?

People have been fired for their facebook comments about their employers, and this has been upheld in court. I guess that question is settled.

Absolutely I've talked about hate fucking someone. Generally it's a case of "nice body shit personality". You made not have used the exact phrase, but I'd be surprised if you've never had the same general thought.

Rape? I didn't see where anyone talked about rape. Bad jokes about chloroform are not threats of rape.

As for my daughter... I'll do my best to raise her not to be the type of person that people hate. Other than that... yes, she will be objectified. My son likely will be as well(he's a good looking boy). I'm sure many people will say things about both of them that I'd rather not hear. And if they're stupid enough to do it where I can hear... then that's their own fault. Might lose my Zen and go all Bart on them

[andyt]

Nice body, shit personality is not somebody I would want to fuck. The idea of hate fucking just doesn't click with me. As I said before, I don't use my dick as a weapon. So some of the hotties on Fox say, may be good looking, but I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole - just too plastic and brittle. I didn't realize I was that different from other guys - I've talked with friends plenty of wanting just fuck some woman, but hate fucking just never came up.

The chloroform joke is a joke about drugging and raping someone. By itself, it's just a stupid joke, one that I doubt women who have been drugged or raped would find funny. But in light of the hate fucking talk, to me it's part of the whole package.

As I've said, why would these guys hate these women so much? Probably because they are assertive women and are intruding into what they perceive as their private domain of status. To me that says fear, they are afraid of these women. As I said, it all seems very Freudian to me.

[Unsound]

Or... they're just guys. Apparently you're a little better than the rest of us, but the vast majority of guys I know say all kinds of stupid shit like this on a regular basis. And none of it meant seriously. Well, they might be serious about wanting to bang a particular woman, but none of them are actually going to rape anyone.

[andyt]

Maybe I am better, tho like I say, I've just never heard anybody talk about hate fucking until Ghomeshi. Wanting to fuck somebody you are not otherwise attracted to isn't hate fucking, it's just casual sex. Hate fucking is using sex as a form of assault or denigration, at least how I read it.

[Unsound]

It's not some one that you're "not otherwise attracted to", it's fucking someone that you actively dislike. Could be a case of them simply being so good looking that you're willing to overlook the personality for a couple hours, or it could be a case of feeling that you've won some sort of victory over them by convincing them to have sex with you.

[Xort]

andyt andyt:

People have been fired for their facebook comments about their employers, and this has been upheld in court. I guess that question is settled.

Courts don't rule on morality or what society wants, they mostly rule in line with the law or what they think is correct. If people collectively don't support a court and it's ruling then the law will change to reflect that.

If I was to spend 2hrs a day reading the tweets and facebook posts of students and professors how many people do you think I could find making statements calling for violence, harm, or other indignities to be done to other people?

andyt andyt:

Sounds to me that due process is being asked for. But the students are suspended the way a cop is suspended while the investigation is ongoing.

A cop still gets paid, still builds up pensionable income keeps their seniority and just don't have to go to work.

These students will be unable to graduate due to missed classes making this schooling cycle a write off for them. That adds a huge cost to their education.

$1:

I certainly don't blame the women that are the objects of these posts to not want to be in the same classroom as these "gentlemen."

And at one time we wouldn't blame people for not wanting to share a water fountain, or bathroom with some members of society.

They have committed no crime, their is no report of them being investigated by the police for a potential crime. This is just school administration bending to the shrill threats made by a staff member.

$1:

That is exactly what should happen. Publish their names and have the RCDS investigate these guys - don't prevent them from becoming dentists, but monitor them for some time once they do.

Investigate them for what? The RCDS isn't a police group, their single and only realm of responsibility is the conduct of their members while performing their profession.

I want the name[s] of the person[s] in the RCDS that is/are demanding the names so an investigation will come that way.

andyt andyt:

Maybe I am better, tho like I say, I've just never heard anybody talk about hate fucking until Ghomeshi. Wanting to fuck somebody you are not otherwise attracted to isn't hate fucking, it's just casual sex. Hate fucking is using sex as a form of assault or denigration, at least how I read it.

I would suggest you are reading it wildly wrong. Their is a huge different between rape and hate fucking. A rape is non consensual. Hate fucking is consensual, but done with someone you dislike that has however agreed to have sex with you.

It's a way of saying I think this person is terrible, but is still physically attractive enough that I would have sex with them.

At worst it's a modification of the debate over which celebrity you would have sex with. It's not sexual assault, it's not abusive, it's not harassment it's not 'Implied sexual violence' whatever the fuck that is.

[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

Maybe I am better, tho like I say, I've just never heard anybody talk about hate fucking until Ghomeshi. Wanting to fuck somebody you are not otherwise attracted to isn't hate fucking, it's just casual sex. Hate fucking is using sex as a form of assault or denigration, at least how I read it.

I never heard it either. On the other hand I grew up in some pretty dicey neighbourhoods and heard much worse. Anyways, in this politically correct world we often forget that there is a difference between saying something and doing something. Gomeshi actually did (allegedly) hate fuck women. Despite the bleatings of the permanently outraged, saying something is not violence, and free speech is protected in our charter. Not that that means anything to hand-wringers.

[DrCaleb]

Xort Xort:

Who was raped? No one that's who.
How about we blame feminists taking offense on behalf of someone else?

Simply put if a student committed a crime, after being convicted in a court of law the school may take action against a student IF they are now an unacceptable risk to other students or staff.

You don't have to have actual sexual contact for there to still be violence.

And, as above, you can cheat on an exam and be expelled and never actually commit a crime. Professionals are held to certain standards, and I know if I had a daughter I wouldn't let her near a dentist that advocated anesthetizing women and then raping them.

Would you?

[DrCaleb]

Unsound Unsound:

Rape? I didn't see where anyone talked about rape. Bad jokes about chloroform are not threats of rape.

Notice the pics I posted. Do you think the hetero sex with a lesbian would be consensual?

[andyt]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Unsound Unsound:

Rape? I didn't see where anyone talked about rape. Bad jokes about chloroform are not threats of rape.

Notice the pics I posted. Do you think the hetero sex with a lesbian would be consensual?

No more or less than if they used chloroform on a straight woman. But not to worry, boys will be boys, they didn't actually do it, and their female classmates should get a grip and quit making such a fuss.

What would be interesting is if some female students formed a facebook womyn's society where they talked about male students they would most like to castrate. We do have different standards for men and women, so I'm not sure what the reaction of the uni administration would be. But I can guarantee hysteria among the defenders of these "gentlemen."

[stratos]

$1:

and their female classmates should get a grip and quit making such a fuss.

From the news article it is the professors making the fuss not their fellow classmates.

$1:

But I can guarantee hysteria among the defenders of these "gentlemen."

So those defending the women in this case are correct but in your made up scenario the defenders of the men would just be nothing more then hysteria. Double standards in your own mind on things there andyt?

[Xort]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

You don't have to have actual sexual contact for there to still be violence.

Correct, because violence can be non sexual. I can punch you and that's violence even if their was no sexual aspect to it.

However violence requires physical contact, and sexual violence requires sexual physical contact.

For which their is none in this case. No violence and no sexual contact, and no sexual violence.

$1:

Professionals are held to certain standards,

They are not doctors or members of the profession yet.

$1:

and I know if I had a daughter I wouldn't let her near a dentist that advocated anesthetizing women and then raping them.
Would you?

In this exact context? Yes I would.
In the straw man situation you made up? I would need to research the context. I wouldn't send my daughter to a Muslim doctor even if he would see a female patient.

[DrCaleb]

Xort Xort:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

You don't have to have actual sexual contact for there to still be violence.

Correct, because violence can be non sexual. I can punch you and that's violence even if their was no sexual aspect to it.

However violence requires physical contact, and sexual violence requires sexual physical contact.

For which their is none in this case. No violence and no sexual contact, and no sexual violence.

But even you know that Bullying is violence. And a crime.

Xort Xort:

$1:

Professionals are held to certain standards,

They are not doctors or members of the profession yet.

And University is where they are supposed to learn that professionalism.

Xort Xort:

$1:

and I know if I had a daughter I wouldn't let her near a dentist that advocated anesthetizing women and then raping them.
Would you?

In this exact context? Yes I would.
In the straw man situation you made up? I would need to research the context. I wouldn't send my daughter to a Muslim doctor even if he would see a female patient.

It is within the context of the Chloroform jokes. One of the jokes on their Facebook site was "Does this mask smell like Nitrous Oxide?" and "Penis, ..to convert. . .virgins into useful members of Society".

You would send your daughter to that Dentist, but not if he was Muslim? That's pretty screwed up.