[Freakinoldguy]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

I think FoG is paranoid that if this law passes he will be killed the moment he enters the ward.

FoG, I get you had some bad experiences. But this is something for people that want it. If you don't want to die before you start suffering, you have sweet fuck all to worry about. You'll be allowed to suffer to the bitter end. Hell, a point may even come where, if you change your mind and decide you want to die, that they wont let you die and force you to live because you are no longer of sound mind, despite the "waste" of resources it would be..

I don't think that doctors will start offing everyone they see but like I said it's been done in the past without consent and this practice will continue in the future for some doctors, unlike the ones treating my father inlaw who actually wanted to die but they kept him alive.

So, the topic I was talking about has less to do with assisted suicide than what's currently happening to some people in hospital and that's the medical profession is playing god with their patients by deciding life or death which is what some people on here seem to think is quite alright.

I'm not scared at all about hospitals but I'm leery about them. I have a DNR order on my will but there is no way to make sure the attending doctor doesn't revive you at his own pleasure because like I said they get to play God and their patients wishes be damned.

Hopefully because BC has DNR on it's books I won't be revived numerous times by some dim bulb doctor who takes the Hippocratic oath far to seriously but, then again hopefully I won't be left to dies because someone in better health needs some antibiotics.

Nobody wants anyone to suffer needlessly but allowing someone to die without even a rudimentary attempt at saving their life is callous and unfeeling. FFS how did that doctor know this guys family wasn't on it's way to say goodbye to him? That incident didn't scare me it actually just pissed me off especially since people seem to think it's no big deal. My mother died in hospital and she received good care right up till the end but the writing was on the wall and they kept her alive till the family could get there which is totally different than what they did for that poor old soul.

[Freakinoldguy]

andyt andyt:

too many straw men to be worth discussing.

And that from the man who wants to give free drugs to the addicted, free alcohol to the alcoholics and free homes to the homeless yet, doesn't want the health care system to spend one single penny on keeping a person alive even if they don't want to die at the health care systems convenience.

I'm assuming you'd prefer all that saved money to be given over to the poor people who made "bad" choices with their lives and the ones who didn't should just STFU.

[DrCaleb]

Thanos Thanos:

I'll tell all of you right now what I said to God when I walked out of that place after a visit last night. That WILL NOT happen to me when my time comes. I will not go through that decline or any of that goddamn fucking humiliation. It will be my decision, by my own hand. And no one, and not that son of a bitch of a God, will get in my way or stop me when I choose the time and the place. It might be next week or it might not be for another thirty years. But I will be the one to choose. Not the government, not some doctor going through the motions, and certainly not some church assholes who claim to be speaking for our all-loving (fucking LOL) deity. My decision, no one else's, and anyone who wants to get in the way is going to get run the fuck over.

[Jabberwalker]

Thanos Thanos:

I'll tell all of you right now what I said to God when I walked out of that place after a visit last night. That WILL NOT happen to me when my time comes. I will not go through that decline or any of that goddamn fucking humiliation. It will be my decision, by my own hand. And no one, and not that son of a bitch of a God, will get in my way or stop me when I choose the time and the place. It might be next week or it might not be for another thirty years. But I will be the one to choose. Not the government, not some doctor going through the motions, and certainly not some church assholes who claim to be speaking for our all-loving (fucking LOL) deity. My decision, no one else's, and anyone who wants to get in the way is going to get run the fuck over.

I watched my dad die an inch at a time over a three year period and I agree wholeheartedly with your post. The trouble is that my dad didn't want to go, wouldn't go and (literally) hung on like grim death. It was his choice. I can neither criticize nor question it. It wouldn't be my choice but that doesn't make him wrong.

[andyt]

Nope. Absolutely his choice. But as he came close to the end, I think it's OK for the state to invest its resources in people who have a chance, not do any and all heroic measures to allow your dad to hang on for a few more days or weeks. Provide palliative care to keep him comfortable. Don't hook him up to machines that more or less keep him artificially alive. Would you agree?

[Brenda]

Thanos Thanos:

I'll tell all of you right now what I said to God when I walked out of that place after a visit last night. That WILL NOT happen to me when my time comes. I will not go through that decline or any of that goddamn fucking humiliation. It will be my decision, by my own hand. And no one, and not that son of a bitch of a God, will get in my way or stop me when I choose the time and the place. It might be next week or it might not be for another thirty years. But I will be the one to choose. Not the government, not some doctor going through the motions, and certainly not some church assholes who claim to be speaking for our all-loving (fucking LOL) deity. My decision, no one else's, and anyone who wants to get in the way is going to get run the fuck over.

That's kinda the point here.
If you cannot physically do it yourself anymore, then what?
Then you would need some help. The ones helping you, would be killing you, and thus be murderers.

NOW, they will not be.

[Jabberwalker]

andyt andyt:

Nope. Absolutely his choice. But as he came close to the end, I think it's OK for the state to invest its resources in people who have a chance, not do any and all heroic measures to allow your dad to hang on for a few more days or weeks. Provide palliative care to keep him comfortable. Don't hook him up to machines that more or less keep him artificially alive. Would you agree?

I would agree. He paid for his own private care (BIG $$$$!!!) and he was no "drain" at all on any public resources. He was never on any kind of artificial life support.

[stratos]

andyt andyt:

Nope. Absolutely his choice. But as he came close to the end, I think it's OK for the state to invest its resources in people who have a chance, not do any and all heroic measures to allow your dad to hang on for a few more days or weeks. Provide palliative care to keep him comfortable. Don't hook him up to machines that more or less keep him artificially alive. Would you agree?

So now you want to be the judge and jury on who lives and dies? We have now gone from assisted suicide to oh this persons life is worthless so lets pull the plug and kill them.

[Jabberwalker]

Sarah Palin's death panels are actually real ... and secret.

[Brenda]

stratos stratos:

andyt andyt:

Nope. Absolutely his choice. But as he came close to the end, I think it's OK for the state to invest its resources in people who have a chance, not do any and all heroic measures to allow your dad to hang on for a few more days or weeks. Provide palliative care to keep him comfortable. Don't hook him up to machines that more or less keep him artificially alive. Would you agree?

So now you want to be the judge and jury on who lives and dies? We have now gone from assisted suicide to oh this persons life is worthless so lets pull the plug and kill them.

People die. Everything that's alive dies at some point. Why should we do everything to keep someone (or something) alive when it is dying?
Without all the technology we have invented over the past centuries, they would have died a long time ago. Why play God and decide who lives artificially?

I am thanking the lawmakers in the Netherlands for the choice my grandmother was allowed to make when she was dying of multiple cancers at 83. Why have her on machines and keep her alive for another week, her not knowing she even was alive anymore?
Now she passed away comfortably, was able to say goodbye to whomever she wanted to.

[stratos]

Yes it was her choice and I agree that she should have the right to make that choice. Andyt stated that he wants to be able to pull the plug on people because he fells their life is no longer viable giving them no choice in the matter of their deaths. Thus he has gone from assisted suicide to murder as being acceptable.

[andyt]

stratos stratos:

So now you want to be the judge and jury on who lives and dies? We have now gone from assisted suicide to oh this persons life is worthless ending, so lets pull the plug and kill them let them die peacefully.

Yes. We already do that in Canada. DNR, no heroic measures. Sarah Palin was right.

[stratos]

DNR is by request of the person not up to you or anyone else but by that individual. You want it to be decided by others who gets to live and die.

[stratos]

So lets make this clear Andyt You feel that if someone is on a respirator and or needs heroic efforts to save their life then you want them just to die. Giving them no chance to voice their own opinion on the matter. Or are you saying something else.

[andyt]

stratos stratos:

So lets make this clear Andyt You feel that that if someone is on a respirator and or needs heroic efforts to save their life to be kept alive for a few more days, then you want them just to die peacefully and naturally. IF they are capable of voicing their own opinion, that's a different matter. Very few people at this stage of dying are.

Yes

I can't think of a doctor who would withhold treatment over the objections of the patient. Family on otoh objecting to no heroic measures has gone to court. Sometimes they win, sometimes the hospital wins.