[Thanos]

Only if it's the new Urban/Headey version. The Stallone/Schneider one can go eat a fuckin' bag of dicks.

[ShepherdsDog]

haven't seen the new one. If your woody factor is taken out of the equation, is it still worth seeing?

[Gunnair]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Gunnair Gunnair:

RUEZ RUEZ:

The thing is, the courts are responsible for sending people to prisons, not the private company. The courts will never be run for profit and I fail to see how a private company is going to increase convictions.

Lobbyists.

Will do what?

Lobby.

Lobby for increased numbers of prisons, sterner laws, longer sentences, etc...

I'm curious how you figure a private prison system would make a profit?

[BeaverFever]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Will do what?

What did you miss? Maybe you didn't bother to read the story behind the Pennsylvania cash for kids scandall...

In that case, the judges closed the public prison and secretly invested in the private prison along with their friends and family members. The prison was built for $8M and leased backed to the taxpayer for $58M. A per-inmate fee was also payable to them on top of the lucrative lease. The private prison employees, not any gov't agency, were responsible for determining if/when inmate sentences could be extended and they often were without basis. The judges in question sent every juvenile they could to the prison, even juveniles as young as 10 with no record were sent to the prison and often only for minor offences such as shoplifting a bottle of Oregano or even making a MySpace page mocking the high-school VP. In many instances, the juvenile offender had no lawyer, guardian or parent present at trial and were not even allowed to address the court. Some spent less than 2 minutes infront of the judge from the time their name was called to the time they were taken away to the private prison.

[CanadianJeff]

Gunnair Gunnair:

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

It's not about politics it's about common fucking sense.

Do you even know why I wear the conservative badge?

Not sure who you're addressing here.

I suppose I could have been more direct but that was a response to being called a "leftie".

edit: Sorry Shep I'd rep for up for the judge if I could. :p

[RUEZ]

Gunnair Gunnair:

I'm curious how you figure a private prison system would make a profit?

I don't figure, unless I'm getting so old I said I did, and I don't remember.

[Gunnair]

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

Gunnair Gunnair:

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

It's not about politics it's about common fucking sense.

Do you even know why I wear the conservative badge?

Not sure who you're addressing here.

I suppose I could have been more direct but that was a response to being called a "leftie".

edit: Sorry Shep I'd rep for up for the judge if I could. :p

The wink meant it was tongue in cheek as it was a dig at Canadian Patriot who labeled those opposed to this is mere lefties finding fault. A quick review of my previous posts would reveal you and I agree here.

[RUEZ]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

RUEZ RUEZ:

Will do what?

What did you miss? Maybe you didn't bother to read the story behind the Pennsylvania cash for kids scandall...

In that case, the judges closed the public prison and secretly invested in the private prison along with their friends and family members. The prison was built for $8M and leased backed to the taxpayer for $58M. A per-inmate fee was also payable to them on top of the lucrative lease. The private prison employees, not any gov't agency, were responsible for determining if/when inmate sentences could be extended and they often were without basis. The judges in question sent every juvenile they could to the prison, even juveniles as young as 10 with no record were sent to the prison and often only for minor offences such as shoplifting a bottle of Oregano or even making a MySpace page mocking the high-school VP. In many instances, the juvenile offender had no lawyer, guardian or parent present at trial and were not even allowed to address the court. Some spent less than 2 minutes infront of the judge from the time their name was called to the time they were taken away to the private prison.

I'm sorry, you've mistaken me for someone who's in favour of private for profit prisons.

[Gunnair]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Gunnair Gunnair:

I'm curious how you figure a private prison system would make a profit?

I don't figure, unless I'm getting so old I said I did, and I don't remember.

Apologies then. I'm not sure what you were getting at in your post.

[RUEZ]

Gunnair Gunnair:

RUEZ RUEZ:

Gunnair Gunnair:

I'm curious how you figure a private prison system would make a profit?

I don't figure, unless I'm getting so old I said I did, and I don't remember.

Apologies then. I'm not sure what you were getting at in your post.

I'm merely trying to find out how a private prison can affect the courts in a way that will send them more prisoners. Your suggestion of lobbyists seems plausible in the U.S. I don't know if that would go over so easily in Canada.

[CanadianJeff]

My apologies. I don't think anyone in here is really arguing for profit prisons when we get down to brass tax.

Still I would be interested to see how a prison would respond if they were only paid when the rate of recurrence was say a few points below the average of the government system. We may actually see innovation in the field of rehabilitation.

[Gunnair]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Gunnair Gunnair:

RUEZ RUEZ:

I don't figure, unless I'm getting so old I said I did, and I don't remember.

Apologies then. I'm not sure what you were getting at in your post.

I'm merely trying to find out how a private prison can affect the courts in a way that will send them more prisoners. Your suggestion of lobbyists seems plausible in the U.S. I don't know if that would go over so easily in Canada.

it may not, but the cynical side of me says no one gets into a business without a business plan calling for a decent profit. Prisons need prisoners as the commodity to make a profit, so it stands to reason that the more prisoners the better.

[andyt]

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

My apologies. I don't think anyone in here is really arguing for profit prisons when we get down to brass tax.

Still I would be interested to see how a prison would respond if they were only paid when the rate of recurrence was say a few points below the average of the government system. We may actually see innovation in the field of rehabilitation.

You wouldn't need a whole private prison for that, ie privately built. Just have some group put forth a proposal to run a current prison in a way that will reduce recidivism, and they get paid a poor rate if things don't improve, a good rate if they do.

Unfortunately recidivism is as much about what support and supervision we give cons one they get out. They could all fixed up in prison, but if there's no opportunities and support when they get out it might all be for naught.

But the Reformacons aren't interested in that, because it would take upfront money and the results would be some time coming. (Plus they believe in punishment instead of rehabilitation - those scumbags don't deserve no stinkin rehabilitation). That's the problem with a lot of govt initiatives that would save money in the long run but have a high up front cost. Voters aren't patient enough for it.

[ShepherdsDog]

I've never been a huge fan of the idea of a Corrections Corp. because of the risk of cutting corners and underpaid guards being even more open to corruption. I've always felt that prisons should help pay for themselves either by being 'correctional....dare i risk it ...communes. These would truly be places of restitution and rehabilitation for those who are deserving of the chance. Any number of industries the correctional service requires, to make it self sufficient to a degree, be it garment factories, quarries, farms(meat, dairy, fruit, vegetable and grain) or lumber mills. Prisoners are trained, work for their keep and privileges. Different institutions would supply the others with what is needed. Surplus, either product or profit made from selling surplus product is reinvested into the system...or goes towards victims and their families. Prisoners are given a trade, educated and socialized.

The concrete castles are reserved for the hard cases that pose a serious threat to society and other prisoners.

[CanadianJeff]

andy the reason I'd like to see it succeed privately is that I don't like big government. The less reliance there is on the taxpayer to fund society the better.

If we could turn a good deal of public deficit into GDP the better our lifestyles and the economy.

The major difference I have with most conservatives boils down to a lack of willingness to "throw people under the bus" as I see it. Some programs and services are needed to ensure no one is left in a world of poverty and disease without making it attractive enough that anyone would consider welfare an acceptable state to go through their own life with.

That and I don't think it's ever governments place to put social policy into law. Social policy should be decided by the people in everyday interaction with one another. The only time government should ever get involved is to protect the freedoms of our charter for everyone. One example would be ensuring the freedom for gay people to openly associate with one another including the association of marriage.

As for what services need to remain in place and be government run is a huge and important area of debate.

Hope that makes my position a bit clearer.