[Newsbot]

Title: Ford says Canada union must narrow cost gap
Category: Business
Posted By: Robair
Date: 2009-10-02 14:40:43
Canadian

[Guy_Fawkes]

Sounds pretty reasonable.

[leewgrant]

The CAW wants a labour force level guarantee. Ford's reply - give us the same deal that you gave the other two.

What is that famous Watergate comment, "When you have them by the balls, who cares about their hearts and minds"?

[EyeBrock]

Ah the CAW........the workers paradise will always be just beyond their grasp...

[herbie]

Ah the suckers who'll trash a union everytime. Now they should rollback wages because Ford ISN'T losing money... so they can make more profit.
Yeah right.

[PluggyRug]

Herbie Herbie:

Ah the suckers who'll trash a union everytime. Now they should rollback wages because Ford ISN'T losing money... so they can make more profit.
Yeah right.

And what about a union does not deserve to be "trashed"?
So you want Ford to eventually go bankrupt and all the union employees lose their jobs.

Excellent sentiment. The twentieth century ended at midnight on the 31st of December 1999.

[DerbyX]

Unions are really a pendulum beast. There is no doubt they were a force for good during the industrial revolution when workers were exploited worse then serfs but there is also no doubt they make business unprofitable leading to their own job loss.

Still they also have a point what with CEO golden handshakes (even when they fail) equal the yearly wages of thousands of workers.

I'd say legislation restricting unions be implemented along with laws smacking down disgusting CEO/corporate officers wages and benefits, especially when those businesses get bailed out with tax money.

[EyeBrock]

herbie herbie:

Ah the suckers who'll trash a union everytime. Now they should rollback wages because Ford ISN'T losing money... so they can make more profit.
Yeah right.

Hey Pinkie, I'm still not buying a ford 'cos you 'workers' say I should.
By the way, what do you actually build?

[PluggyRug]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Still they also have a point what with CEO golden handshakes (even when they fail) equal the yearly wages of thousands of workers.

I'd say legislation restricting unions be implemented along with laws smacking down disgusting CEO/corporate officers wages and benefits, especially when those businesses get bailed out with tax money.

Good points Derby, mirror my own sentiments.

[DerbyX]

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Still they also have a point what with CEO golden handshakes (even when they fail) equal the yearly wages of thousands of workers.

I'd say legislation restricting unions be implemented along with laws smacking down disgusting CEO/corporate officers wages and benefits, especially when those businesses get bailed out with tax money.

Good points Derby, mirror my own sentiments.

If you didn't have an Olympic logo by your Avatar I'd kiss you.

[PluggyRug]

DerbyX DerbyX:

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Still they also have a point what with CEO golden handshakes (even when they fail) equal the yearly wages of thousands of workers.

I'd say legislation restricting unions be implemented along with laws smacking down disgusting CEO/corporate officers wages and benefits, especially when those businesses get bailed out with tax money.

Good points Derby, mirror my own sentiments.

If you didn't have an Olympic logo by your Avatar I'd kiss you.

Yuk

[herbie]

Hey Brownshirt, I build networks not cars. I'm also the Boss not one of the peons. But spent 30 years as one of them.
It doesn't take too much to figure out:
A: the less you pay the shittier the worker you get, an]d the one who offers to work for less is the first you fire because they already know they're not worth as much as the good workers.
B: the more they rollback pay everywhere else, the less money the customers have to buy my shit.
C: The longer the bullshit you guys spout goes on the stupider, pettier and cheaper the people who swallow it become. It's real easy to whine that you make $12 in the gyppo mill and the guy in the union mill makes $25 so he gets too much. It's pretty hard to admit you're not fucking good enough to get hired on at the union mill.

[PluggyRug]

herbie herbie:

Hey Brownshirt, I build networks not cars. I'm also the Boss not one of the peons. But spent 30 years as one of them.
It doesn't take too much to figure out:
A: the less you pay the shittier the worker you get, an]d the one who offers to work for less is the first you fire because they already know they're not worth as much as the good workers.
B: the more they rollback pay everywhere else, the less money the customers have to buy my shit.
C: The longer the bullshit you guys spout goes on the stupider, pettier and cheaper the people who swallow it become. It's real easy to whine that you make $12 in the gyppo mill and the guy in the union mill makes $25 so he gets too much. It's pretty hard to admit you're not fucking good enough to get hired on at the union mill.

The only way to get a shitty job at the union mill is to be in the union. Real people get educated and become the boss. Took you 30 years wot old chap.

Currently union members are wearing brown shirts.

[herbie]

No, the only way to get a job at a union site is to put in an application like everywhere else. You get in the union after you get hired on. Usually after 90 days.
Most union shops require a posting must be offered to union members first, then to new hires.
Almost none require you to join the union before you can be hired.

Pretty obvious your bias is due to ignorance.

[Lemmy]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Unions are really a pendulum beast. There is no doubt they were a force for good during the industrial revolution when workers were exploited worse then serfs but there is also no doubt they make business unprofitable leading to their own job loss.

Still they also have a point what with CEO golden handshakes (even when they fail) equal the yearly wages of thousands of workers.

I'd say legislation restricting unions be implemented along with laws smacking down disgusting CEO/corporate officers wages and benefits, especially when those businesses get bailed out with tax money.

The pendulum is a good metaphor. And there's more to the story than typical non-union (read: jealous I'm not in a union) rhetoric. Corporate management and their ineptitude is equally to blame for the auto-sector's problems. The source of the problem isn't the EXISTENCE of the union, it's the inflexibility that characterizes modern unions and modern management. 80 years ago, unions did what they do today in terms of collective bargaining and working conditions, but they also recognized that they needed to tailor their demands and make concessions with the business cycle. Management, likewise, was more effective when it had the big picture (ie. security of the company) ahead of its own selfish interests.

Oddly enough, both entities were more effective when they were more adversarial. Both have become too cozy and bullet-proof in their entitlement, at each others' shared peril.