[BRAH]

Goober911 Goober911:

Has Israel attempted to make a peace deal in the last negotiations?

Hamas turned down the cease fire, broke the cease fire agreement for humanitarian needs maybe you should be asking why Hamas did that?

[Goober911]

BRAH BRAH:

Goober911 Goober911:

Has Israel attempted to make a peace deal in the last negotiations?

Hamas turned down the cease fire, broke the cease fire agreement for humanitarian needs maybe you should be asking why Hamas did that?

Not what I asked.
But I will provide an answer.
Firstly, as you do follow the news, the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, have had a number of show trials.
The numbers tried at one time, if I recall correctly in one case were just under 1000. Sentence death.Another was over 600 or around that.
Egypt did not speak with Hamas and why would Hamas trust Sisi.
So that dog don't hunt.

[redhatmamma]

Goober911 Goober911:

.....

As I have mentioned here and other places Israel has to be brought to the table.
That would also include the PLO as well.
Each receives funding from a variety of sources.
And then a major issue arises, Israel will not only want security guarantees, they will want troops on Palestine borders with Jordan -Egypt- inspections at ports- border crossings.

And those points I agree with.

If this is real and I haven't seen any confirmation that it is as everything is 'reportedly', some of the demands are over the top which Hamas must realize. They are making demands knowing that it won't get them, they can can use it as propaganda to say Israel will not accept a truce. Apparently Hamas sent a text message to Israelis warning that their gov't better accept the terror group’s terms, or else.


Coming from the Guardian this is pretty reasonable
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... -ceasefire

Pressure mounts on Hamas to accept ceasefire as Gaza death toll tops 300
Hamas left isolated by its refusal to accept a truce as death toll rises and UN chief heads for the region to help broker peace


phony claims of Israeli violence
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/t ... =more_news

Pro palestinian supporter violence
http://online.wsj.com/articles/pro-pale ... 1405790372

[Goober911]

redhatmamma redhatmamma:

Goober911 Goober911:

.....

As I have mentioned here and other places Israel has to be brought to the table.
That would also include the PLO as well.
Each receives funding from a variety of sources.
And then a major issue arises, Israel will not only want security guarantees, they will want troops on Palestine borders with Jordan -Egypt- inspections at ports- border crossings.

And those points I agree with.

If this is real and I haven't seen any confirmation that it is as everything is 'reportedly', some of the demands are over the top which Hamas must realize. They are making demands knowing that it won't get them, they can can use it as propaganda to say Israel will not accept a truce. Apparently Hamas sent a text message to Israelis warning that their gov't better accept the terror group’s terms, or else.


Coming from the Guardian this is pretty reasonable
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... -ceasefire

Pressure mounts on Hamas to accept ceasefire as Gaza death toll tops 300
Hamas left isolated by its refusal to accept a truce as death toll rises and UN chief heads for the region to help broker peace


phony claims of Israeli violence
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/t ... =more_news

Pro palestinian supporter violence
http://online.wsj.com/articles/pro-pale ... 1405790372

Care to answer my points.
Hams is in a corner, Israel know this, just another card being played.

[redhatmamma]

Israel agreed to stop bombing without conditions but the reported offer from Hamas seems to be that they will agree to stop killing if Israel meets all of their demands – or the shelling continues - period. A simple cease fire such as the Egyptian proposal appears to be unacceptable for Hamas.

[BRAH]

Goober911 Goober911:

BRAH BRAH:

Goober911 Goober911:

Has Israel attempted to make a peace deal in the last negotiations?

Hamas turned down the cease fire, broke the cease fire agreement for humanitarian needs maybe you should be asking why Hamas did that?

Not what I asked.
But I will provide an answer.
Firstly, as you do follow the news, the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, have had a number of show trials.
The numbers tried at one time, if I recall correctly in one case were just under 1000. Sentence death.Another was over 600 or around that.
Egypt did not speak with Hamas and why would Hamas trust Sisi.
So that dog don't hunt.

Whatever again you continue making excuses for Hamas and it doesn't change the fact they turned down a cease fire Israel agreed to and broke the cease fire agreement for humanitarian needs so spin that.


These Egyptians see Hamas for who and what they are instead of the usual suspects, wait this must be Israeli propaganda.

[Goober911]

redhatmamma redhatmamma:

Israel agreed to stop bombing without conditions but the reported offer from Hamas seems to be that they will agree to stop killing if Israel meets all of their demands – or the shelling continues - period. A simple cease fire such as the Egyptian proposal appears to be unacceptable for Hamas.

From the beginning of the missing teenagers, Israel began to push the PLo/Hamas into a corner.
Mass arrests to begin with.
Deaths arising from confrontations with Israeli arrests and such.
Israel played their cards.
The PLO is looked upon by many as weak, but Abbas is the only PLO leader that has been stressing peace and Israel under Nutjob does not want peace.
Israel went out of there way to sabotage the peace negotiations.
Myself. I am pro Israel but I will not be sold a bill of goods by the present Israeli Govt.
.

[desertdude]

BRAH BRAH:

Israel has a right to defend itself against the continued missile strikes and Hamas Terrorists sneaking through the tunnels to murder innocent Israleis. People like yourself think Israel shouldn't respond to the missile attacks because they're technologically more advanced is typical of the hypocrisy.

More typical drivel from you. No one has ever questioned Israels right to defend itself, but what is happening now is above and beyond self defence, how do you call shelling four children playing on the beach, self defence ? How do you call bombing of Wafa Hospital self defence ? Same questions put forward by Jon Snow to usually sharp as tack Mark Reghev which left him blithering like an idiot with all sort of dumb excuses, which I'm sure will follow from you also. And those killed from the tunnels were IDF soldiers, not civilians.

BRAH BRAH:

As for saying I don't care about the lives of Palestinians you also forgot racist in your attempt at the typical Leftist tactic and the only propaganda comes from Hamas and their lame stream media lap dogs and to bad they can't use flat fatima or green helmet guy since they were retired in 2006.

I gave you wide open space to prove me wrong, one word towards the huge loss of civilian life would have been enough but instead you descend into your usual non sense, just proving my point that you indeed are a despicable human being.

[Goober911]

Not directed at any member. Just happened to follow another post.

Just a suggestion to all.
Could we dial back the rhetoric to a discussion format- ya know, I make this point, you counter point and so on is all.
People are dieing. Least we can do.

[N_Fiddledog]

[desertdude]

Gladly.

[N_Fiddledog]

Why I Stand With Israel

"A great many of us pride ourselves on the subtlety of our minds, and on recognizing the complexities, both moral and practical, of the world, and this is a very good impulse.

But when this impulse is raised to the level of dogma, it risks obscuring more than it clarifies. There are some occasions–yes, few, but some–when the moral calculus is exceedingly simple.

I used to have a great personal interest in the policy detail of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I could lecture at length on the subtleties of Camp David, Taba, the Road Map; on the different kinds of settlements; on the security barrier, its precise shape and contours; on the various UN resolutions; on the history of Fatah and Hamas. By now, like Lord Palmerston and the Schleswig-Holstein Question, I have forgotten most of the details.

What I have not forgotten is the following: the State of Israel is a democracy with the rule of law and respect for human rights (yes, imperfect, unlike the United States and Europe, which, as we all know, are perfect); demonic hatred of Jews is a real and persistent fact of history and when left unchecked it always leads to atrocities; this demonic hatred is absolutely clearly distilled into the enemies of Israel; and most, most importantly this: if tomorrow Hamas, Hizbullah and other enemies of Israel dropped their weapons, peace would break out; if tomorrow Israel dropped its weapons, a genocide would break out.

There is, there can be, no moral equivalency. Sometimes there really are Good Guys and Bad Guys.

That the Palestinians are weak and poor while Israel is comparatively strong and rich changes nothing. That Israel is often unwise and, yes, occasionally criminal, changes nothing.

To take a purposefully provocative analogy: yes, during World War II, the Allies (even excepting the Soviet Union) committed war crimes. The strategic bombing of Germany and the atom bombing of Hiroshima and Nagazaki were war crimes. Elizabeth Anscombe was right to denounce Truman. It nonetheless remains true that if you lived through World War II and pretexted of Allied crimes to portray the sides as morally equivalent, or to refuse to take sides, you were guilty of moral cretinism and cowardice.

This is a conflict where there really are Good Guys and Bad Guys and to pretend otherwise is indefensible. The chief culprit of the plight of the Palestinians is not Israel but the terrorists and fanatics who use them as tools of their ravenous bloodlust.

Golda Meir was right then, and is right now. The conflict will end when the enemies of Israel start loving their children more than they hate Israel.

Yes, it really is that simple."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/pascalemman ... th-israel/

[BRAH]

desertdude desertdude:

BRAH BRAH:

Israel has a right to defend itself against the continued missile strikes and Hamas Terrorists sneaking through the tunnels to murder innocent Israleis. People like yourself think Israel shouldn't respond to the missile attacks because they're technologically more advanced is typical of the hypocrisy.

More typical drivel from you. No one has ever questioned Israels right to defend itself, but what is happening now is above and beyond self defence, how do you call shelling four children playing on the beach, self defence ? How do you call bombing of Wafa Hospital self defence ? Same questions put forward by Jon Snow to usually sharp as tack Mark Reghev which left him blithering like an idiot with all sort of dumb excuses, which I'm sure will follow from you also. And those killed from the tunnels were IDF soldiers, not civilians.

BRAH BRAH:

As for saying I don't care about the lives of Palestinians you also forgot racist in your attempt at the typical Leftist tactic and the only propaganda comes from Hamas and their lame stream media lap dogs and to bad they can't use flat fatima or green helmet guy since they were retired in 2006.

I gave you wide open space to prove me wrong, one word towards the huge loss of civilian life would have been enough but instead you descend into your usual non sense, just proving my point that you indeed are a despicable human being.

Meh, you're just upset I don't buy into your propaganda bullshit so if thinking I'm so despicable makes you sleep better at night sunshine it's all good. Now let's huh, bro!

[desertdude]

[raydan]

You know, this thread is kinda like the Gaza conflict itself. Everybody's talking, nobody's listening and they all think they're right.