[DrCaleb]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

So, by paying Google for access to the eyeballs they control, you didn't buy a commodity? Google didn't sell that commodity to you, the advertiser? Google isn't selling access to the eyeballs it has in it's database? Then, pray tell, how do they earn all that money?

Fail.

You don't have a clue!

Google sells advertising to people based on their search history. Search Engine Marketing. It has nothing to do with people signed up for Google services.

Fail.

Gmail is also scrubbed for data, as is Google Maps, Google+, Google Office, pretty much everything you do in Chrome or on Android . . .

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2147001/ ... p-ads.html

Many apps ask for 'permissions' to things like your contact lists, which are then uploaded and used further, so as in this article - if you give them your cell number, everything on it is fair game to sell your eyeballs to advertisers!

For example, Google Wallet:

https://wallet.google.com/legaldocument ... tice&hl=en

$1:

Transaction information – When you use Google Wallet to conduct a transaction, we may collect information about the transaction, including: Date, time and amount of the transaction, the merchant’s location, a description provided by the seller of the goods or services purchased, any photo you choose to associate with the transaction, the names and email addresses of the seller and buyer (or sender and recipient), the type of payment method used, your description of the reason for the transaction, and the offer associated with the transaction, if any.

Easily obtainable information. Fail.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Government information is, by law, not given to other government departments or to foreign powers outside of certain information. Tax records, for example, are not shared outside of the Revenue department. Banks are also forbidden from sharing information about you. And there are people in both places, like me, whose job it is to make sure that doesn't happen.

And yet, it does happen. Just like my personal information was sold by my local hospital so I could be sold investments for my newborns.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybr ... 28876.html

My information was also lost from my local public health office after my family and I went for the H1N1 shot a while back.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2012/05 ... ation.html

So, your data was illegally 'sold' and illegally 'lost', not 'given' by a government department. Learn to read.

And you call me paranoid for ensuring the exact same things cannot happen to me, or anyone where I work.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Identity theft. Nude photos posted online. Happens every day, so not paranoia.

Of the billions who use the internet daily and have their information 'out there' it's quite rare.

How do people hack into Facebook or other social media tools? Not via the company, usually by guessing a really easy password.

Incorrect. Facebook used to change it's privacy settings on Friday, then on Monday get all 'embarrassed' that their changes left everyone's data open worldwide for the whole weekend.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 22530.html

Now they are just up front about it, and track you everywhere you go. Instagram is worse!

And of the billions online, so very few are good targets for identity theft. Most have no money to steal, whereas medical records stolen from Anthem are worth hundreds of dollars each, on the open market. The Anthem breach isn't even cold, and people are stealing more data and money already!

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/02/phis ... em-breach/

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Speak for yourself! They haven't been collecting information on me, because I do not give it out. And, as above, banking information is restricted.

I only wish I could be as ignorant as you seem to be about what your data points actually mean to some companies, and the lengths they are willing to go to to get them. But hey, good luck with that privacy thing! The only one who will protect it for you, is you!

Sure they have. Especially telecoms. You have a mobile device? It tracks your location when you make calls.

Based on your knowledge of what Google does with respect to advertising, I'm thinking a lack of knowledge might be the cause of your paranoia.

Nope. No cell phone.

The fact you didn't know this makes me wonder if you know what you are arguing about here, and makes me wonder if you know what they are really doing to earn your advertising dollars.

[BeaverFever]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

andyt andyt:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

This requires you give them your real name, and phone number. Something I will not do.

Why would you use this if you don't have a Google account anyway?

If you buy an Android device, you have no choice but to sign up for a Google account. You don't have to give them this information when you sign up, only when you want additional 'free' cloud storage space. It's just a carrot and stick approach to glean more information from you.

^^ This is the main rason I switched from Android to iPhone recently. I know, I know, Apple isn't perfect in this category either but they're not nearly as ravenous as Google and I noticeably have much more control over the device and individual apps than I did with Android.

[DrCaleb]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

andyt andyt:

Why would you use this if you don't have a Google account anyway?

If you buy an Android device, you have no choice but to sign up for a Google account. You don't have to give them this information when you sign up, only when you want additional 'free' cloud storage space. It's just a carrot and stick approach to glean more information from you.

^^ This is the main rason I switched from Android to iPhone recently. I know, I know, Apple isn't perfect in this category either but they're not nearly as ravenous as Google and I noticeably have much more control over the device and individual apps than I did with Android.

Actually, I do have a Blackberry. No big secret there. But the location service is off. So what if they know what tower I'm near? It tells very little about me.

Not like I let Google have access to my credit card info and contact list!

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

This requires you give them your real name, and phone number. Something I will not do.

They already know it. They're only asking so you'll think you gave them permission to know it.

[OnTheIce]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Gmail is also scrubbed for data, as is Google Maps, Google+, Google Office, pretty much everything you do in Chrome or on Android . . .

You're out of your depth.

You just found out what Google's advertising programs are about and now you want to pretend you have an in-depth knowledge?

Just as you do here at CKA, you see Google ads. Same goes for Google, Bing, Facebook...all adds based on your location, search terms, etc

Your personal information such as your name and phone number aren't used or sold to market to you, as was your original claim.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Many apps ask for 'permissions' to things like your contact lists, which are then uploaded and used further, so as in this article - if you give them your cell number, everything on it is fair game to sell your eyeballs to advertisers!

Wrong and wrong again. They don't use your contact list nor your cell number to market to you.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

For example, Google Wallet:

As does every other financial institution.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

So, your data was illegally 'sold' and illegally 'lost', not 'given' by a government department. Learn to read.

And you call me paranoid for ensuring the exact same things cannot happen to me, or anyone where I work.

Just goes to show no matter how careful you are, your information is out there and may get into the wrong hands one way or another.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Now they are just up front about it, and track you everywhere you go. Instagram is worse!

Oh. My. God. They know I went to the grocery store.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Nope. No cell phone.

Confirms it. DrTinFoil. I'd hate to have to live such a paranoid existence but I guess for you, it's par for the course.

Better shut off your Internet too.

[DrCaleb]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Gmail is also scrubbed for data, as is Google Maps, Google+, Google Office, pretty much everything you do in Chrome or on Android . . .

You're out of your depth.

You just found out what Google's advertising programs are about and now you want to pretend you have an in-depth knowledge?

Just as you do here at CKA, you see Google ads. Same goes for Google, Bing, Facebook...all adds based on your location, search terms, etc

You might see ads, I do not. I use several browser plug ins that block things here on CKA like Google Ad sense and Facebook scripts.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Your personal information such as your name and phone number aren't used or sold to market to you, as was your original claim.

And that's wasn't my original claim. That was something you decided I said, not what I actually wrote.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Many apps ask for 'permissions' to things like your contact lists, which are then uploaded and used further, so as in this article - if you give them your cell number, everything on it is fair game to sell your eyeballs to advertisers!

Wrong and wrong again. They don't use your contact list nor your cell number to market to you.

Again, something I didn't say, but something you assumed. And easily available information.

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/apple-resp ... data-news/

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

For example, Google Wallet:

As does every other financial institution.

And Financial institutions have certain legal restrictions when it comes to that information. Does Google?

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

So, your data was illegally 'sold' and illegally 'lost', not 'given' by a government department. Learn to read.

And you call me paranoid for ensuring the exact same things cannot happen to me, or anyone where I work.

Just goes to show no matter how careful you are, your information is out there and may get into the wrong hands one way or another.

Unless it's not out there. I'm pretty strict with my information, but yes, there is always the chance of a third party stealing it. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't be strict with my information.

Once it's out there, there is no getting it back.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Now they are just up front about it, and track you everywhere you go. Instagram is worse!

Oh. My. God. They know I went to the grocery store.

And Planned Parenthood, the VD clinic and Alcoholics Anonymous . . .

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Nope. No cell phone.

Confirms it. DrTinFoil. I'd hate to have to live such a paranoid existence but I guess for you, it's par for the course.

Better shut off your Internet too.

I guess you don't recall our long conversations about Blackberry?

But Blackberry doesn't leak my data, like Android or iPhone do.

[OnTheIce]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

And that's wasn't my original claim. That was something you decided I said, not what I actually wrote.

Sure it was.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

So, by paying Google for access to the eyeballs they control, you didn't buy a commodity? Google didn't sell that commodity to you, the advertiser? Google isn't selling access to the eyeballs it has in it's database? Then, pray tell, how do they earn all that money?

"Eyeballs in it's database" clearly indicated you assumed Google was selling personal account information to advertisers of it's users which is false.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

And Financial institutions have certain legal restrictions when it comes to that information. Does Google?

Don't you work in the field? One of the largest tech companies and the World and you don't know what their privacy policy is?

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

And Planned Parenthood, the VD clinic and Alcoholics Anonymous . . .

As can your phone that you claimed you didn't own, with the location services turned off. Triangulation in today's age is quite precise.

Do you take the battery out of your phone when it's not on?

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I guess you don't recall our long conversations about Blackberry?

But Blackberry doesn't leak my data, like Android or iPhone do.

Are you laughing because I forgot our conversation or that you lied about owning a phone to make your point a little stronger?

[DrCaleb]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

And that's wasn't my original claim. That was something you decided I said, not what I actually wrote.

Sure it was.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

So, by paying Google for access to the eyeballs they control, you didn't buy a commodity? Google didn't sell that commodity to you, the advertiser? Google isn't selling access to the eyeballs it has in it's database? Then, pray tell, how do they earn all that money?

"Eyeballs in it's database" clearly indicated you assumed Google was selling personal account information to advertisers of it's users which is false.

"paying Google for access to the eyeballs they control" clearly shows I did not claim that. I know full well that Google's data is it's lifeblood and selling it means they no longer control their biggest source of revenue - access to those eyeballs.

Misquotes do not make your position stronger, but I have come to expect it from you. But you already know what you are paying millions of dollars for, right?

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

And Financial institutions have certain legal restrictions when it comes to that information. Does Google?

Don't you work in the field? One of the largest tech companies and the World and you don't know what their privacy policy is?

I also know their privacy policy is not backed up by any real force of law. Banks however, face some pretty heavy fines if they breach Privacy Laws. Google, Facebook . . not so much.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

And Planned Parenthood, the VD clinic and Alcoholics Anonymous . . .

As can your phone that you claimed you didn't own, with the location services turned off. Triangulation in today's age is quite precise.

Do you take the battery out of your phone when it's not on?

If I'm going to the VD clinic, I do. But I don't really care if the phone company knows in what neighborhood I am. I do care if some app on my phone is reading the GPS data and sending it back to their servers in order to build up profiles of me.

And triangulation is pretty crappy, even if they care to do it for every cell phone. You shouldn't get your tech info from reruns of '24'.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I guess you don't recall our long conversations about Blackberry?

But Blackberry doesn't leak my data, like Android or iPhone do.

Are you laughing because I forgot our conversation or that you lied about owning a phone to make your point a little stronger?

No, because you are showing signs of early Alzheimers. We've had some pretty good discussions about cell phones, and not recalling them makes all the other blunders you've made in this and other threads make more sense. And I guess that's also why you saw my response as a lie, instead of sarcasm.

But hey, let's continue with the conversation until your failure is complete!

[BeaverFever]

I think the difference is "metadata" vs personal data and pushing info vs. pulling info.

As OTI points out, it is impossible to completely hide your habits if you live in the electronic age...however if you're not signing up for user accounts then it's anonymous data.

But what OTI is referring to is a company being able to say "1,200 unique users googled 'Viagara yesterday." Which is not the same as if you hand over additional personal info, in which case the company can generate a report on those 1,200 and that could reveal:

Name: Dan Johnson,
Home Address 123 Maple Street, Edmonton AB,
Work Address: ABC company, 456 Pine St, Edmonton AB,

Login locations: Home address, Work Address, Other location: (No-tell Motel, 789 Elm St.)

Other Google users likely associatated with this person:

-Mrs. Johnson, Little Suzie Johnson, Little Billy Johnson (shared home address)
-Ima HomeWrecker (shared work address, shared phone contacts, shared Login location ("Other location")

So when Dan is "working late" and Mrs Johsnon and her kids are home checking their email, they get auto-spam that says: "Activity by people we think you may know: 'IMA HOMEWRECKER' just sent 'DAN JOHNSON' a link for 'VIAGARA'. Click here to find deals on 'VIAGARA' near 'NO-TELL MOTEL', 789 Elm St, Edmonton!"

As for CSIS/NSA and spying - CSIS/NSA being able to 'pull' any data they want for individuals who are already of interest to them is not the same as letting companies like Google push everyone's data to them.

[OnTheIce]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

"paying Google for access to the eyeballs they control" clearly shows I did not claim that. I know full well that Google's data is it's lifeblood and selling it means they no longer control their biggest source of revenue - access to those eyeballs.

Misquotes do not make your position stronger, but I have come to expect it from you. But you already know what you are paying millions of dollars for, right?

I'll give you one thing, you backpeddle like nobody I've ever seen. Misquotes? You kill me.

You win. You never said what you said. You never do. All a big misunderstanding.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

If I'm going to the VD clinic, I do.

Sure ya do.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

No, because you are showing signs of early Alzheimers. We've had some pretty good discussions about cell phones, and not recalling them makes all the other blunders you've made in this and other threads make more sense. And I guess that's also why you saw my response as a lie, instead of sarcasm.

Not recalling them means I don't give a shit or care to remember conversation some anonymous person on the Internet.

If you do, perhaps you need a little more excitement in your life beyond taking out your cell battery while having your STD's treated.

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I think the difference is "metadata" vs personal data and pushing info vs. pulling info.

As OTI points out, it is impossible to completely hide your habits if you live in the electronic age...however if you're not signing up for user accounts then it's anonymous data.

But what OTI is referring to is a company being able to say "1,200 unique users googled 'Viagara yesterday." Which is not the same as if you hand over additional personal info, in which case the company can generate a report on those 1,200 and that could reveal:

Our friend here thinks that Google sells access to "eyeballs" in their database.

They sell ad spots to people based on raw, anonymous data that's entered into Google search and not via a database of customers using Google products.

[DrCaleb]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I think the difference is "metadata" vs personal data and pushing info vs. pulling info.

Don't fall for the 'metadata' lie! Quite a lot of information can be gleaned from things like who you call, where the details of what are said aren't so important.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

As OTI points out, it is impossible to completely hide your habits if you live in the electronic age...however if you're not signing up for user accounts then it's anonymous data.

As in Google's privacy statements:

$1:

Google will store certain information, such as history, bookmarked URLs as well as an image and a sample of text from the bookmarked page, passwords and other settings, on Google's servers in association with your Google Account. Information stored with your Account is protected by the Google Privacy Policy.

If you use the Spellcheck feature of Chrome, which lets you use the same technology used in Google search to check your spelling, it will send the text you type to Google for spelling and grammar suggestions.

If you are using a mobile version of Chrome, and you have granted your Android device or Chrome on iOS permission to access your location, then Chrome may use your location for Google location-enabled services, including for example enhancing omnibox searches.

https://www.google.com/chrome/browser/privacy/

And pages and pages more.

[DrCaleb]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I think the difference is "metadata" vs personal data and pushing info vs. pulling info.

As OTI points out, it is impossible to completely hide your habits if you live in the electronic age...however if you're not signing up for user accounts then it's anonymous data.

But what OTI is referring to is a company being able to say "1,200 unique users googled 'Viagara yesterday." Which is not the same as if you hand over additional personal info, in which case the company can generate a report on those 1,200 and that could reveal:

Our friend here thinks that Google sells access to "eyeballs" in their database.

They sell ad spots to people based on raw, anonymous data that's entered into Google search and not via a database of customers using Google products.

Unless you are Stevie Wonder.

[Public_Domain]

[Tricks]

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

Google already pretty much owns my soul. I ran out of information to give them ages ago.

Same. I for one embrace my Google overlords.