[xerxes]

And when they declare their own state? Then Turkey goes crazy and a whole new mess begins.

[commanderkai]

xerxes xerxes:

And when they declare their own state? Then Turkey goes crazy and a whole new mess begins.

It's going to happen sooner or later.

[N_Fiddledog]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Well, on the positive side, I hope the Kurds take everything they want from this mess.

That's the smart play from our side's POV - back the Kurd's. We'll know it is when we see it's exactly what Obama won't do.

[N_Fiddledog]

$1:

FINALLY THE KURDS GET THEIR JERUSALEM: HOW ISIS INVASION IS REDRAWING THE MAP OF IRAQ

Iraqi Kurds seized control of the northern oil city of Kirkuk today as the central government's army abandoned its posts in a rapid collapse that has lost it control of the north.

Peshmerga fighters (pictured below), the security forces of Iraq's autonomous Kurdish north, swept into Kirkuk after the army abandoned its posts there, a peshmerga spokesman said.



'The whole of Kirkuk has fallen into the hands of peshmerga,' said Jabbar Yawar.

'No Iraqi army remains in Kirkuk now.'

Kurds have long dreamed of taking Kirkuk, a city with huge oil reserves just outside their autonomous region, which they regard as their historical capital.
Hardened fighters: The Peshmerga force is thought to be capable of crushing ISIS should it wish

The swift move by their highly organized security forces demonstrates how this week's sudden advance by fighters of the Al Qaeda offshoot Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS) has redrawn Iraq's map.

Kurds have been determined to return to Kirkuk after they were driven from the oil-rich city under Saddam Hussein's 'Arabisation' campaign - the settlement of tens of thousands of Arabs in Kirkuk during his three decades in power

The Iraqi government has control over the oil fields on the city's western fringe.

In May 2013, Kurdish fighters took up positions on the outskirts of Kirkuk after Iraqi security forces were redeployed to deal with Sunni militants elsewhere.

Today they made the final push after the army fled before an Islamist offensive nearby.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z34RwKNEsW

[bootlegga]

Thanos Thanos:

In their defense, anyone who would give up their life for the corrupt hacks in the Maliki government is probably an idiot. All those guys dropping their guns had zero reason to fight for those assholes in Baghdad, the exact same way all those guys in south Vietnam in 1975 had zero reason to fight for those assholes who were ruling in Saigon. Iraq is a secular sewer that's made no progress at all in developing some kind of respectable federal government. Maliki and his Shia punks do whatever they can to screw over the Sunnis, who then flock to the religious radicals in response. And the Kurds are practically running their own separate state already and want nothing at all to do with the other major ethnic, political, and religious groups. It's a total schmozz, and there is literally no fix for it anywhere. Too much malice, too much corruption, and far too much interference from outside agents.

Pop culture comparison? "Yeah, I don't mind fighting for my home, but I'll be damned if I go get killed for some crazy bitch like Cersei Lannister".

Good points, but let's remember that South Vietnam fell to two armoured corps with more armoured vehicles than Rommel had in Africa, so comparing their ability to fight the VC (totally useless) versus fighting the NVA (somewhat useless) is apples and oranges really.

There were occasions in 1975 where the ARVN held up the NVA advance, while that can't really be said of earlier engagements when the US was fighting by their side in the 60s.

Getting back to this disaster, what's happening now is one of the main reasons Bush Sr. didn't allow Schwarzkopf to continue into Iraq - they didn't want to see it split into several states, some of which would be failed ones. Especially worrying is an independent Kurdistan on the border of NATO member Turkey - which while I would like to see an independent Kurdish nation, it needs to be accomplished with delicacy, not the implosion of the Iraqi state.

[BRAH]

ISIS butchers leave 'roads lined with decapitated police and soldiers': Battle for Baghdad looms as thousands answer Iraqi government's call to arms and jihadists bear down on capital

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2655977/ISIS-militants-march-Baghdad-trademark-bullet-head-gets-way-control-north.html
__

[BartSimpson]

xerxes xerxes:

You call find the links...But how sad was the Iraqi army's cowardice? An under-strength battalion, 800 men, was enough to send 30,000 "men" running for their lives.

Reminds me of how the British surrendered Singapore to a smaller, weaker, Japanese force. The difference being that the Japanese at that time were motivated combat veterans and the Brits who were in uniform mistook the British Army for a jobs program.

Probably much the same paradigm at work here, too.

[BartSimpson]

BRAH BRAH:

[b]ISIS butchers leave 'roads lined with decapitated police and soldiers': Battle for Baghdad looms as thousands answer Iraqi government's call to arms and jihadists bear down on capital

And these guys are being led by clerics.

[andyt]

You have to ask how many of the soldiers were sunni and didn't feel the motivation to defend the Maliki govt. Many may feel sympathy with the insurgents. And their commanders were probably making arrangements to split while ordering the soldiers to hold the line.

I wonder if this is all for the best. Iraq was a bullshit country anyway. Let these people fight it out and let the chips fall where they may. If this caliphate that Isis wants to form gets too far out of line, between Iran and Kurdistan it would be crushed pretty quickly.

[BRAH]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

BRAH BRAH:

[b]ISIS butchers leave 'roads lined with decapitated police and soldiers': Battle for Baghdad looms as thousands answer Iraqi government's call to arms and jihadists bear down on capital

And these guys are being led by clerics.

Meanwhile Obama's getting ready to leave for another weekend vacay.

[BartSimpson]

Oh, hell. Looks like that jerk Edrogan from Turkey is SUPPORTING the ISIS army.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/chp-la ... sCatID=338

Which explains why Obama is sitting on his hands.

[Zipperfish]

Republican Response:

"Iraq is a mess?"

[BartSimpson]

$1:

Militants of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), who abducted 80 Turks in northern Iraq and who are approaching ever closer to the Iraqi capital Baghdad, have set rules for those living under their control in the province of Nineveh.

The group, which has made clear that it intends to create a new Caliphate, published the document two days after taking the provincial capital Mosul.

Arabic-speaking reporter Jenan Moussa translated the document. A redacted version is as follows:

1) People, you tried secular rulings (Republic, Baathist, Safavid) and they gave you pain. Now is time for the Islamic state of Imam Abu Bakr El Qurashi.

2) For those asking “Who are you?”: We are soldiers of Islam and have taken on our responsibility to bring back the glory of the Islamic Caliphate.

3) Money we took from the Safavid (Shiite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki) government is now public. Only Imam of Muslims can spend it. The hand of anyone who steals will be cut.

4) We ask all Muslims to be on time for prayers in the mosques.

5) We warn tribal leaders and sheikhs not to work with the government and be traitors.

6) No drugs, no alcohol and no cigarettes are allowed.

7) For the police, soldiers and other infidel institutions: You can repent. We have opened special places that will allow you to repent.

8 ) Gatherings, carrying flags (other than that of the Islamic state) and carrying guns are not allowed. God ordered us to stay united.

9) Our position on shrines and graves is clear. Simply, all will be destroyed.

10) For women: Dress decently and wear wide clothes. Only go out if necessary.

Re: #8 it's always the hallmark of tyrants to disarm those who would stand against them.

[andyt]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Which explains why Obama is sitting on his hands.

A few posts ago, you opined that the Arabs should be allowed to fight it out amongst themselves. Now you're complaining because Obama is sitting on his hands. Which is it?

I hope he continues to sit on his hands. What good can come of the US being drawn into another mess in that country?

[martin14]

Nice list, seems quite reasonable.