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<strong>Title: </strong> <a href="/link.php?id=25856" target="_blank">John Tory Caught in a Lie</a> (click to view)

<strong>Category:</strong> <a href="/news/topic/17-business" target="_blank">Business</a>
<strong>Posted By: </strong> <a href="/modules.php?name=Your_Account&op=userinfo&username=Sling" target="_blank">Sling</a>
<strong>Date: </strong> 2007-10-06 06:53:06
<strong>Canadian</strong>

[Sling]

Oops, posted this twice by accident....This is in the wrong category.

[Dayseed]

Oh good, now all the Constupidtives will be on here to spin this.

[camerontech]

Dayseed Dayseed:

Oh good, now all the Constupidtives will be on here to spin this.

thanks for that witty and constructive post...really, thanks.

how many ontario provincial conservatives have been defending Tory on this board lately? not too much.

on another note, link isn't working for me

[Sling]

Here's the link.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... n2007/home

[Sling]

Better yet, here's the article.

Defence, prosecution alike reject PC attack on bail system
KIRK MAKIN

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

October 6, 2007 at 12:55 AM EDT

A campaign assault on the bail system by Ontario Conservative Leader John Tory has accomplished the rare feat of uniting both the prosecution and defence bar against his claims.

Even hard-line police advocates are having trouble defending Mr. Tory's claims as well as the targets he has identified in a series of recent commercials and speeches.

Mr. Tory has accused Ontario prosecutors of practising a “catch-and-release” policy when it comes to bail. He has also implied that soft provincial government policies are at fault for seven of 10 murder suspects in Toronto in 2006 having been out on bail, on probation or “subject to another court order.”

While the seven of 10 figure is mostly agreed upon, Mr. Tory's use of the phrase “catch and release” is what has drawn the most fire.

“Unfortunately, these things are out of the control of the province,” said Bruce Miller, chief administrative officer of the Police Association of Ontario. “From our perspective, there is a catch-and-release policy – but it is at the federal end. These issues need to be addressed federally.”

Lawyers for both the Crown and defence accuse Mr. Tory of clouding the fact that bail decisions are made by judges or justices of the peace – not government prosecutors – and that obtaining bail is far from being a pushover.

James Chaffe, president of the Ontario Crown Attorneys' Association, alleged that Mr. Tory has misled the public and is “badly misinformed.”

“What he [Mr. Tory] is saying is completely unfair,” agreed Gary Clewley, a lawyer who has represented the Toronto Police Association. “Bail is hard and complicated. The only risk-free situation is to detain everybody. To say the Crowns practise catch-and-release is unfair.”

In an interview yesterday, Mr. Tory acknowledged that JPs, judges and federal parole officials make the release decisions, but he insisted that the origin of the problem lies in provincial Crown attorneys who negotiate soft plea bargains in the first place, and who fail to take bail violations seriously.

“I'm not blaming the Crown attorneys,” he said. “I think they are doing what they think is best. I won't call into question how they exercise their discretion because, frankly, I don't know. But I think the Attorney-General should give them, in some of these instances, less discretion. I think we're being too lax in these deals and, in many cases, because of pressure that's on Crown attorneys to just get rid of these cases.”

Statistics compiled by the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services suggest that the system is anything but soft on bail. The number of inmates in jail awaiting trial has seen “a dramatic increase” in the past 10 years, said Stuart McGetrick, a ministry spokesman.

Two-thirds of the 8,588 inmates in provincial jails at any given time last year were on pre-trial remand – a stark contrast to the situation a decade ago, when only one-third of the 7,789 inmates in provincial jails were on remand.

And a Canadian Association of Police Boards paper in 2004 found that the average remand count had risen 85 per cent since 1990/91, causing immense stress on police lock-ups and detention centres. Over the same period, the sentenced population had decreased by 22 per cent.

Reid Rusonik, a Toronto criminal lawyer, said it's important to know what offence a person on bail or parole was charged with before suggesting that a murder might have been prevented if they were behind bars.

“On bail and probation for what?” he said. “Shoplifting? Marijuana possession? Writing a bad cheque? Not to worry, though: we can deny everyone bail to be safe – and keep them in indefinitely if they are found guilty.”

Defence lawyers say bail is increasingly more difficult to obtain because prosecutors have become very hard-line. “Crowns consent to far, far fewer releases now than 10, 15 or 25 years ago,” Mr. Rusonik said.

Defence lawyers add that justices of the peace – who lack the legal qualifications and courtroom savvy of judges – tend to opt for the safe route of simply denying bail.

“I think most criminal lawyers would say that there is more of a culture of detention with JPs than with judges,” Toronto defence lawyer Peter Zaduk said.

[Mustang1]

camerontech camerontech:

Dayseed Dayseed:

Oh good, now all the Constupidtives will be on here to spin this.

thanks for that witty and constructive post...really, thanks.

how many ontario provincial conservatives have been defending Tory on this board lately? not too much.

on another note, link isn't working for me

Actually, they've all run away the minute it was pointed out that they absolutely zilch about provincial politics. Oh...and was your hyocracy genunie or a poor attempt at irony? Thanks.

By the way, just getting back to the topic at hand, has anyone noticed that despite Tory's blundering and his apologists' crying that this is a one issue election, he still can't gain traction on other issues either. I'd say that voters are going to reward the Grits with 4 more years (and i initially predicted a minority, but this thing is looking like a majority)

[Sling]

Anything can still happen, predicting elections is like predicting weather.

Tory seems inexperienced and unable to discuss other issues. I don't know his background, but I don't think it is in politics. He hasn't made specific promises, accepting the school thing and that he will cut money to health care.

This was Tory's election to lose. There was a lot of animosity against McGuinty to start, but Tory hasn't been able to capitalize. No one to blame but his team and himself.

[Mustang1]

Sling Sling:

Anything can still happen, predicting elections is like predicting weather.

Tory seems inexperienced and unable to discuss other issues. I don't know his background, but I don't think it is in politics. He hasn't made specific promises, accepting the school thing and that he will cut money to health care.

This was Tory's election to lose. There was a lot of animosity against McGuinty to start, but Tory hasn't been able to capitalize. No one to blame but his team and himself.

I agree that anything can happen - I'm not sure it was Tory's to lose, but it looks like he will

[camerontech]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

camerontech camerontech:

Dayseed Dayseed:

Oh good, now all the Constupidtives will be on here to spin this.

thanks for that witty and constructive post...really, thanks.

how many ontario provincial conservatives have been defending Tory on this board lately? not too much.

on another note, link isn't working for me

Actually, they've all run away the minute it was pointed out that they absolutely zilch about provincial politics. Oh...and was your hyocracy genunie or a poor attempt at irony? Thanks.

By the way, just getting back to the topic at hand, has anyone noticed that despite Tory's blundering and his apologists' crying that this is a one issue election, he still can't gain traction on other issues either. I'd say that voters are going to reward the Grits with 4 more years (and i initially predicted a minority, but this thing is looking like a majority)

LMAO, geez you take this forum stuff pretty seriously don't you?

Tory has proven himself to be incompetent, he'll be lucky to walk away with a grit minority instead of another grit majority

[Mustang1]

camerontech camerontech:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

camerontech camerontech:

Dayseed Dayseed:

Oh good, now all the Constupidtives will be on here to spin this.

thanks for that witty and constructive post...really, thanks.

how many ontario provincial conservatives have been defending Tory on this board lately? not too much.

on another note, link isn't working for me

Actually, they've all run away the minute it was pointed out that they absolutely zilch about provincial politics. Oh...and was your hyocracy genunie or a poor attempt at irony? Thanks.

By the way, just getting back to the topic at hand, has anyone noticed that despite Tory's blundering and his apologists' crying that this is a one issue election, he still can't gain traction on other issues either. I'd say that voters are going to reward the Grits with 4 more years (and i initially predicted a minority, but this thing is looking like a majority)

LMAO, geez you take this stuff forum stuff pretty seriously don't you?

Tory has proven himself to be incompetent, he'll be lucky to have a minority

This coming from the guy that Karma bombs a thread? Project away. Tory, by the way, won't get a minority if the polls are to believed.

[camerontech]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

camerontech camerontech:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

camerontech camerontech:

Dayseed Dayseed:

Oh good, now all the Constupidtives will be on here to spin this.

thanks for that witty and constructive post...really, thanks.

how many ontario provincial conservatives have been defending Tory on this board lately? not too much.

on another note, link isn't working for me

Actually, they've all run away the minute it was pointed out that they absolutely zilch about provincial politics. Oh...and was your hyocracy genunie or a poor attempt at irony? Thanks.

By the way, just getting back to the topic at hand, has anyone noticed that despite Tory's blundering and his apologists' crying that this is a one issue election, he still can't gain traction on other issues either. I'd say that voters are going to reward the Grits with 4 more years (and i initially predicted a minority, but this thing is looking like a majority)

LMAO, geez you take this stuff forum stuff pretty seriously don't you?

Tory has proven himself to be incompetent, he'll be lucky to have a minority

This coming from the guy that Karma bombs a thread? Project away. Tory, by the way, won't get a minority if the polls are to believed.

meant a grit minority

[Mustang1]

camerontech camerontech:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

camerontech camerontech:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

camerontech camerontech:

Dayseed Dayseed:

Oh good, now all the Constupidtives will be on here to spin this.

thanks for that witty and constructive post...really, thanks.

how many ontario provincial conservatives have been defending Tory on this board lately? not too much.

on another note, link isn't working for me

Actually, they've all run away the minute it was pointed out that they absolutely zilch about provincial politics. Oh...and was your hyocracy genunie or a poor attempt at irony? Thanks.

By the way, just getting back to the topic at hand, has anyone noticed that despite Tory's blundering and his apologists' crying that this is a one issue election, he still can't gain traction on other issues either. I'd say that voters are going to reward the Grits with 4 more years (and i initially predicted a minority, but this thing is looking like a majority)

LMAO, geez you take this stuff forum stuff pretty seriously don't you?

Tory has proven himself to be incompetent, he'll be lucky to have a minority

This coming from the guy that Karma bombs a thread? Project away. Tory, by the way, won't get a minority if the polls are to believed.

meant a grit minority

It's possible - roughly 15% of voters make a decision on election day.

[Tricks]

Tory is such a twit.

[ryan29]

Sling Sling:

Anything can still happen, predicting elections is like predicting weather.

Tory seems inexperienced and unable to discuss other issues. I don't know his background, but I don't think it is in politics. He hasn't made specific promises, accepting the school thing and that he will cut money to health care.

This was Tory's election to lose. There was a lot of animosity against McGuinty to start, but Tory hasn't been able to capitalize. No one to blame but his team and himself.

john tory caught in a lie ? , well what about mr mcguinty who spent the last election lying to get elected and then did whatever he wanted once he got in.

tory has just been campaigning like any other opposition leader would this election , his only problem was that whole faith based schools thing and that made things more difficult .it put the heat on the opposition instead of the government .