[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I read too that any attempt to foist a new coin on Americans has always met with boycott, so that gives me hope too.

How true. We won't adopt the metric system so I can see that being the deal killer in any NAU agreement.

[ziggy]

I dont see the exchange hurting anyone,Canada's still going to go through a boom with gold,diamonds and Uranium in the next few years,The likes of the world has never seen before.We will outdo Africa in diamond production,we have the worlds purest gold reserves and Uranium,we are discovering diamonds and Kimberlite pipes in every province and territory now with new technology.We also have the worlds largest fresh water preserve,

[Sling]

This is hilarious.

Leaving the money aside, the other issues Lou Dobbs and the other guys were talking about were bogus. Canada and the U.S. have had joint regulation treaties for as long as both countries have existed, if not when they were still a bunch of colonies.

The idea of joint regulation of meat inspection is a good idea.

A unified border security strategy is a good idea.

Securing the souther border of Mexico is a good idea. If people can't get into southern Mexico then they can't leave northern Mexico and enter the states.

We have jointly administered the Great Lakes for what, a hundred years?

[Toro]

OPP OPP:

Toro Toro:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Guess that pretty much rules out the 'foilers' if there is such a beast in someone's hand.

Did anyone else see the transcript of Vincente Fox saying pretty much the same thing on CNN?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... kl.01.html

This is what he said

$1:

KING: E-mail from Mrs. Gonzalez in Elizabeth, New Jersey. "Mr. Fox, I would like to know how you feel about the possibility of having a Latin America united with one currency?"

FOX: Long term, very long term. What we propose together, President Bush and myself, it's ALCA, which is a trade union for all of the Americas. And everything was running fluently until Hugo Chavez came. He decided to isolate himself. He decided to combat the idea and destroy the idea...

KING: It's going to be like the euro dollar, you mean?

FOX: Well, that would be long, long term. I think the processes to go, first step into is trading agreement. And then further on, a new vision, like we are trying to do with NAFTA.

The idea behind the foiler argument - like the article in the OP - is that this new currency is going to foisted on us in the dead of night.

If you believe that, you're a fool.

If you believe, however, that the long-term vision is like an EU of North America, then such a proposal will be out in the open and transperant. In the EU, the adoption of the euro was studied and debated for years and years.

The currency markets are traded at a value of $3.2 trillion a day. It is the single biggest market on the planet. This is not discussed in the currency markets. About 30 yards away from where I sit are the guys who trade foreign bonds. There is absolutely no chatter about this. Ever. You would think that, in the single biggest market on earth, somebody might be interested in this, since the dollar is the single most important currency.

Oh, and the guy on CNBC is hilarious. "You should visit some sites on the Internet." lol What a joke.

What happened to "there's never going to be a North American Union and the cheer thought of an "amero" is so ridiculous that I'm going to file it under foiler, CT, Archive-X"

"the foiler argument". Like their's a big book of conspiracy theories that everyone on the internet is quoting. You're a clown, Toro. All I needed was some common sense, a few articles and some snippets from news shows to piece this together.

Of course that's all you need.

I'll listen to the people that have a real stake in it though, not someone who believes every conspiracy theory that comes down the pike.

[Toro]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Toro Toro:

This is what he said

$1:

KING: E-mail from Mrs. Gonzalez in Elizabeth, New Jersey. "Mr. Fox, I would like to know how you feel about the possibility of having a Latin America united with one currency?"

FOX: Long term, very long term. What we propose together, President Bush and myself, it's ALCA, <b>which is a trade union for all of the Americas. </b> And everything was running fluently until Hugo Chavez came. He decided to isolate himself. He decided to combat the idea and destroy the idea...

KING: It's going to be like the euro dollar, you mean?

FOX: Well, that would be long, long term. <b>I think the processes to go, first step into is trading agreement. And then further on, a new vision, like we are trying to do with NAFTA.</b>

Highlighted some other parts there.

Toro Toro:

The idea behind the foiler argument - like the article in the OP - is that this new currency is going to foisted on us in the dead of night.

If you believe that, you're a fool.

Well, at least you didn't call me one. What if I believe this is the 'exploratory' phase? My ass is still sore from Mulroney and the FTA which he opposed and signed anyway. And from the GST.

Toro Toro:

If you believe, however, that the long-term vision is like an EU of North America, then such a proposal will be out in the open and transperant. In the EU, the adoption of the euro was studied and debated for years and years.

Europe is not Canada. Canadian politicians get away with too many things for us to not keep them on their toes, especially when it comes to this.

I remember reading an account from one of the insiders for the FTA/NAFTA, and it was disturbing. It was all 'inside' jobs, which were basically submitting reports on 'Canada's View' which were slowly modified to be exactally what the US wanted from NAFTA. It was truly shocking, and I don't for a second believe they wouldn't pull another fast one on us while we slept.

Toro Toro:

The currency markets are traded at a value of $3.2 trillion a day. It is the single biggest market on the planet. This is not discussed in the currency markets. About 30 yards away from where I sit are the guys who trade foreign bonds. There is absolutely no chatter about this. Ever. You would think that, in the single biggest market on earth, somebody might be interested in this, since the dollar is the single most important currency.

That's good to hear. (but my pessimistic side is saying 'why believe Toro any more than Hal Turner?') I read too that any attempt to foist a new coin on Americans has always met with boycott, so that gives me hope too. With the dollar at par, I've also read opinions both for and against the Amero - like why should Canada not adopt it now that both are at par? And the same argument against, as the CAD is likely to rise further (and the AUD).

Ethier way - Harper's 'Jellybeans' analogy is an insult to my favourite brain cells. This 'Union', if it comes to pass, won't be for the good of the citizens.

"NAFTA isn't good" or "Further integration" is bad is a far, far different argument than "The imposition of the Amero is imminent and Bush has deliberately tanked the economy to get it". The former is wrong, IMHO, but at least its cogent and respectable. But the conspiracy theorists who say all you need to do is "read a few articles" are completely ignorant about what it would take, just operationally, to pull this off. It would be massive. But, like all the 9/11 foiler theories that "Bush did it," the tin foil crowd utterly lacks perspective and context and understanding to know what it would take to pull off such a feat.

You don't have to believe me anymore than some shrill talk show host trying to get ratings. (Do you believe everything Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity says.) How about this. Find me a piece by Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, Barclays, Citigroup, or any other major bank that trades billions of dollars a day in currencies that has written about this new currency. They, after all, are the ones who have the most to lose not knowing what is occurring in the currency markets.

I am against a common currency, at least at this point. But you have to be completely ignorant to believe that this is on the verge of happening. Its like a oncologist listening to some holistic healer tell you not to take chemo but instead rub this herb on your belly or head to cure the cancer.

[kevlarman]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I read too that any attempt to foist a new coin on Americans has always met with boycott, so that gives me hope too.

How true. We won't adopt the metric system so I can see that being the deal killer in any NAU agreement.

You don't think you will get the metric system? For anyone over forty I can guess that is a no-brainer but to younger Americans who aren't so afraid of the big-bad world I don't know. I think this is a generational thing and that when the Baby Boomers become to old to be relevant then watch it come in.

I do however agree with the difference in corruption between Canada and the USA. However, I don't see Americans ACTUALLY being anymore successful at dealing with it than us. You may get upset, I've seen that myself, but actually do something? That's sorta, kind of ... 50/50 really.

There are many ways they will institute a North American Union, I doubt it will be immediate or highly visible. I agree with you, the realization will come in some mundane, every-day sort of way like if you were to be pulled over by a Montana highway patrolman in Estevan, Saskatchewan.

[Canadaka]

Just curious, *could* the government get away with passing something like this without a referendum or at least a vote in parliament?

[Scape]

Is a frog's butt watertight?
They passed the GST and NAFTA didn't they?

[Toro]

Canadaka Canadaka:

Just curious, *could* the government get away with passing something like this without a referendum or at least a vote in parliament?

No.

It could not occur in any of the proposed countries.

That's why, if it ever were to happen, it would be debated ad nauseum in the political arena.

[uwish]

Canadaka Canadaka:

Just curious, *could* the government get away with passing something like this without a referendum or at least a vote in parliament?

The US government just suspended Habeas Corpus...

I think any gov could get away with just about anything if they spinned it the right way...

[Toro]

They could not replace the currency without a passage in law.

[Clogeroo]

$1:

The Amero will be controlled by US Congress and the bank it allows to operate the reserve.

Do we really want those people to control our money?

The banks already control our money supply. Money is just created by debt.

[passthedutchie]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The coins are a hoax not by Daniel Carr, but by others who are misusing his work to perpetrate a hoax, he's just trying to turn a buck by exploiting the fears of tinfoilers and by appealing to collectors with a unique product.

That said, while I do personally know that the coins are little more than a prop and that, yes, they have nothing to do with an official NAU...I'm still inclined to agree with OPP on the overall perception that we are creeping towards an NAU of some sort or another.

I doubt we'll wake up one day and *poof* our nations will be gone.

No. Not at all.

But one day off in the future we could be driving from Vancouver to Seattle and we'll get pulled over in Washington (after passing the Peace Arch without stopping) by a BC cop who has full authority to do so and she'll ask us for an ID that looks just the same in Canada as it does in Mexico or the USA and THEN we'll wonder what ever happened to our countries.

It won't be like that..*poof*...instantaneous. It will be slow by North American standards. Your second example may indeed occur, however do you want American enforcement in Canada? The country and its war on terrorism have turned it into a police state. The only American justice that should be flowing north is corporate justice. Also, integrated government policy and services are not the only thing that Canadians need to worry about.

Canada's control is being divided among foreign interests. I think it is safe to say that the percentage of Canadian-owned companies and resources is decreasing and has been for nearly 20 years as the dollar was artificially low. Now Canadians need not only worry about the USA who purchased bits of it on the cheap. Even more powerful State-owned Chinese, and to a lesser extent Middle-Eastern, companies are looking to snap up Canadian companies and resources. Thankfully Canada can still fall back on the Investment Canada Act for now and review these take-overs.

Real wages are only now starting to rise with the near parity and parity levels of the dollar. For the prior twelve years, what happened to that money? Also, productivity has not increased because I think a greater amount of profits leave Canada and are not being invested back. There are terribly negative effects to the type of take-overs seen in the past 20 years. Canadian companies need to help bring foreign investments home now at the same pace. Aside from the bank industry, does Canada have the capacity to engage in global take overs that will have an impact to counter-balance the profits that leave?

There are numerous examples of successes in terms of foreign take-overs of Canadian firms, and foreign trade and investment is necessary. But Canada can survive without free trade and without further integration with the USA and blind sale of its resources to Chinese interests.

//tinfoil doesn't work...neither does ignoring the dangers of greater integration and foreign take-overs

[WBenson]

Oh no! The evil Amero! The banks and governments are conspiring in their black helicopters to take away freedoms of Ameroans!

[passthedutchie]

Clogeroo Clogeroo:

$1:

The Amero will be controlled by US Congress and the bank it allows to operate the reserve.

Do we really want those people to control our money?

The banks already control our money supply. Money is just created by debt.

The line at the top of the quote says it all - controlled by Congress and the bank it allows to control the money supply.

That idiotic group does not control the Canadian money supply.