[Pseudonym]

Are you arguing that abortion law is sexist? I don't know Canadian abortion law well enough to debate that.

[Brenda]

Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:

consider the opposite situation where the man wants to be the father, but the mother is claiming the father is unknown.

In this case, the law favors the mother again. Because it's damn hard for the father to get the parental test performed, if the mother is denying everything.

yeah, I guess you are right here... I don't even think you can do a parental test on an 8 week old fetus Don't you need an alife child for that?

I have hardly ever heard about men wanting to keep the "mistake" though. (which says more about the men that impregnated the women that had an abortion I know about, then about anything else ) I don't think there are any statistics on that either...

Edit: DUHHH! Learn how to read Bren!
Are you sure? Can an assumed father not demand a parental test? That is weird, because a woman can force a man to take a test, right?

[Delwin]

This was kind of tested shortly after abortion became legal. I remember a story about a Catholic man in Canada who brought his ex to court because she was pregnant with his child and was going to abort it. The courts ordered her to not have an abortion and she snuck off to the states and had one anyway. The supreme court then overturned the decision and said it was unconstitutional to force her to carry the baby to term, which worked out because it would have been impossible at that point anyway.

Does anyone remember this or have a link ?

[Brenda]

Well, that is exactly my issue with it too... Noone can force me to do anything to my body I don't want. I guess it is just "tough luck" for the father...

[Wally_Sconce]

I think the discrepancies ly in the fact that at a certain point the courts start to make rulings in favor of what is best for the child. Hence, unwilling dads get roped into paying support. Yet unwilling moms just have an abortion, or if they are slow to decide the can always give the child away to adoption. Meanwhile, a dad that isn't part of the child's live doesn't have a 'give her away to adoption' option.

[Wally_Sconce]

Brenda Brenda:

Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:

consider the opposite situation where the man wants to be the father, but the mother is claiming the father is unknown.

In this case, the law favors the mother again. Because it's damn hard for the father to get the parental test performed, if the mother is denying everything.

yeah, I guess you are right here... I don't even think you can do a parental test on an 8 week old fetus Don't you need an alife child for that?

I have hardly ever heard about men wanting to keep the "mistake" though. (which says more about the men that impregnated the women that had an abortion I know about, then about anything else ) I don't think there are any statistics on that either...

Edit: DUHHH! Learn how to read Bren!
Are you sure? Can an assumed father not demand a parental test? That is weird, because a woman can force a man to take a test, right?

I don't know what the law is on this one, but it's happening to one of my nephews. Because the mother and child are denying that he is the father,the courts want to respect their right to privacy. Meaning my nephew might be able to get a parental test done, but he's getting roped into thousands of dollars worth of legal fees.

[Brenda]

Like the child knows

Their right to privacy? Oh shit, that should be the bloodtest, right?

Kudo's to him though!

[CanAm1]

Morgentaller is still a decrepit little dirt bag that lives off of noteriety. He is a selfish individual that cares only about Henry Morgentaller and his own fame. I would bet that he is an atheist.

[Streaker]

CanAm1 CanAm1:

Morgentaller is still a decrepit little dirt bag that lives off of noteriety. He is a selfish individual that cares only about Henry Morgentaller and his own fame. I would bet that he is an atheist.

What makes you think that he's selfish?

[DerbyX]

CanAm1 CanAm1:

Morgentaller is still a decrepit little dirt bag that lives off of noteriety. He is a selfish individual that cares only about Henry Morgentaller and his own fame. I would bet that he is an atheist.

A selfish individual would not go to jail and endure cascading legal action against him

Your personal beliefs cloud your judgement as does your hatred of Atheism.

How dare you accuse a man of being selfish when his entire life is a testament to serving others.

BTW, FYI:

$1:

Crisis Pregnancy Centers (CPCs) exist to keep women from having abortions. In many instances, they misinform and intimidate women to achieve their goal. Women describe being harassed, bullied, and given blatantly false information. Many assert that their confidentiality has been violated, and that mistreatment by CPCs has threatened their health.

Today there are as many as 4,000 CPCs in the United States,1 compared to the 2,000 clinics that provide abortion care for women.2 CPCs also are prevalent throughout Canada, with more than 150 centers in the country.3

By and large, CPCs are not medical facilities, and most CPC volunteers who work directly with women are not medical professionals.4 Their main qualifications are a commitment to Christianity and anti-choice beliefs. Although CPCs historically have not employed medical staff, there is an emerging trend on the part of CPCs to gain validity by hiring part-time anti-choice medical professionals and purchasing ultrasound equipment.5

How Do CPCs mislead women?

CPCs have a long history of deception. For example, some CPCs intentionally choose their name to mislead women into believing that they offer a wide range of services, including family planning and abortion care. In a 1989 report, the Family Research Council showed that women faced with an unplanned pregnancy were most likely to look in the Yellow Pages under the words "Pregnancy," "Medical," "Women's Centers" and "Clinics."6 Accordingly, CPCs often are advertised under these categories, as well as "Abortion Alternatives," and "Women's Organizations."7 CPCs also advertise through posters, signs, and billboards that contain messages like, "Free Pregnancy Test," or "Pregnant? Scared? We Can Help! Call 1-800 #."8 Women report, however, that when they call these numbers the CPC representatives evade questions about whether they provide abortions, and urge the women to make an appointment to meet with a 'counselor' to talk in person.9

CPCs' deceptive tactics extend to their physical appearance as well. CPCs often design their facilities to look like actual health care facilities with a waiting room, a partitioned check-in desk, and an ultrasound machine.10 They typically locate themselves near clinics that offer abortions in a deliberate attempt to increase their legitimacy and lure potential patients away from receiving abortion care by capitalizing on patients' confusion.11

Though CPCs portray themselves as medical clinics, advertising medical services including an "Ask the Doctor" section and urging women to come in for "options counseling," they do not provide full options counseling and generally will not refer for abortion care or birth control.12 In fact, Care Net, the largest network of CPCs in the United States, specifically instructs its CPCs not to give out information about birth control.13 Most do not mention anywhere on their websites that the CPC will not provide or make referrals for abortions or birth control, but instead claim to provide a "nonjudgmental environment" where "each option" can be explored.14

How do CPCs target women?

CPCs often direct outreach towards young and low-income women. They offer free pregnancy tests, locate themselves in close proximity to colleges and universities, and advertise in school newspapers.15 Low-income women are particularly vulnerable because nationwide there is a shortage of clinics that offer full options counseling and abortion care.

The Family Research Council encourages CPCs to target individuals or groups a pregnant woman is most likely to consult, primarily mothers and other family members.16 CPCs are encouraged to target families and advise them of what to do if there is an unplanned pregnancy. Additionally, the Family Research Council found that 40 percent of women turn to their doctors and that intentional marketing to the medical community could significantly increase clientele.17

Do CPCs have religious affiliations?

Many CPCs are connected with religious organizations, but few disclose that fact in their advertising.18 Most CPCs do not initially disclose to women that they are driven by a religious agenda and that they oppose abortion and birth control. CPCs offer their "services" to women of all faiths, but their programs are often driven by extreme religious anti-abortion agendas. In some of their literature CPCs discuss religious messages about abortion and quote biblical passages that they claim show that God does not support abortion.19

What happens at a CPC?

CPCs have used tactics intended to delay and even harass or intimidate women from having abortions. For example, CPCs have been known to extend the waiting period for pregnancy test results to expose women to their anti-choice or religious propaganda. While women wait, CPCs often present them with videos and pictures depicting gruesome and graphic images of bloody and dismembered fetuses that have allegedly been aborted as a scare tactic in their effort to compel women not to have abortions.20

When the pregnancy results are revealed they may be presented in ways that are ambiguous21 or even false.22 Women also have received unwanted calls at their homes from CPCs urging them to not have an abortion following a visit, a clear violation of their privacy.23

What kinds of misinformation do CPCs give women?

Although many CPCs claim to provide options counseling both over the phone and in person,24 in reality they do not provide women with information about their full reproductive health options. For example, women are told that some birth control methods, especially emergency contraception (also known as the morning after pill), are actually abortifacients.25

CPCs mislead women about abortion procedures. Women are told that abortions are painful, life-threatening procedures that will leave them with long-term emotional, physical, and psychological damage.26 They are often told that having an abortion will put them at higher risk for developing breast cancer, post-traumatic stress disorder, infertility, and other serious medical conditions.27

[Brenda]

lily lily:

Brenda Brenda:

I think only paying is not enough. Either you pay and have "visitation rights", or you don't pay, and father is unknown.

They're not connected. The non-custodial parent has to pay child support and the custodial parent is to allow visitation. If one parent decides not to pay, the other can't with-hold visitation and vice versa.

I know, which is imo not fair either.

[Pseudonym]

Whereas Planned Parenthood does not lie to young women considering abortion? Please.

CPCs may advocate for carrying a child to term, that is not problematic, but it would be if they were providing misinformation.

The "morning after pill" is an abortifacient. It causes a woman to abort a fetus, does it not?

Abortions can be very painful and life-threatening, although this is usually not the case. There are very serious medical concerns here. This is not misinformation.

[Brenda]

And keeping the father away from your kids, but collecting his money is a good thing to teach your kids?

[Brenda]

lily lily:

Brenda Brenda:

And keeping the father away from your kids, but collecting his money is a good thing to teach your kids?

Nor is witholding support while still demanding visiting rights.

I'm talking legally, Brenda. One doesn't hinge on the other. If one parent doesn't hold up their end of the deal, the other isn't allowed to do the same.

Oh sweetheart, believe me, I know. The rules are the same in Holland.

That doesn't mean I think the rules are fair to all 3 parties.

[Brenda]

lily lily:

Brenda Brenda:

lily lily:

Nor is witholding support while still demanding visiting rights.

I'm talking legally, Brenda. One doesn't hinge on the other. If one parent doesn't hold up their end of the deal, the other isn't allowed to do the same.

Oh sweetheart, believe me, I know. The rules are the same in Holland.

That doesn't mean I think the rules are fair to all 3 parties.

There's only one party that matters here... the kids.

That wasn't wanted in the first place.

Abortion, remember?