[Curtman]

andyt andyt:

I don't agree with unions for civil servants (or for crown corporations). There is no economic pressure on the employer to settle for reasonable wages based on profits. There needs to be a mechanism in place to ensure the civil servants are paid a fair wage, but striking isn't it. I'm all for unionization for large employers in the private sector tho. Those unionized wages could then be used as a basis for civil servant pay.

Without a union to stick up for them, there's nothing stopping Stephen Harper from rolling back wages to minimum wage. If Canada Post is able to turn a profit, pay their employees well, a stamp is still a reasonable price, and we get good service, then everyone wins.

[andyt]

Curtman Curtman:

andyt andyt:

I don't agree with unions for civil servants (or for crown corporations). There is no economic pressure on the employer to settle for reasonable wages based on profits. There needs to be a mechanism in place to ensure the civil servants are paid a fair wage, but striking isn't it. I'm all for unionization for large employers in the private sector tho. Those unionized wages could then be used as a basis for civil servant pay.

Without a union to stick up for them, there's nothing stopping Stephen Harper from rolling back wages to minimum wage. If Canada Post is able to turn a profit, pay their employees well, a stamp is still a reasonable price, and we get good service, then everyone wins.

I'm not talking about just busting the union and that's it. What should be in place is some sort of arbitration that looks at market wages and sets the civil servants wages accordingly. It's nice that Canada Post is making a profit, but most govt crown corps don't seem to. Or they are raided by the govt for their profits, like ICBC is in BC. And most civil servants work directly for the govt. I don't want wages set by political expediency, whether that's generous wages or worker bashing, depending on what the govt thinks is to it's advantage at the moment.

[Curtman]

I'm more familiar with Manitoba Hydro, than anything in BC. They are paid very well for what they do, and are a huge source of revenue for our province. I don't see any problem with that.

[andyt]

Curtman Curtman:

I'm more familiar with Manitoba Hydro, than anything in BC. They are paid very well for what they do, and are a huge source of revenue for our province. I don't see any problem with that.

One problem is when govt monopoly workers go on strike. Whether that's Hydro or the teachers, it causes major disruptions for people. So the govt will either make rich settlements, jacking up civil servant wages way above the private sphere, or they'll come in on an austerity kick and look for a fight with the unions. Either way is no good. Governments aren't like private businesses - they can guarantee long term employment easier, they have no profit pressures on them to manage well, so the system should be changed to reflect that.

[Curtman]

I would say the profit pressure is from knowing that if they require gov't subsidies again, they'll be privatized. I don't think Canada Post is an essential service anymore with E-Mail, UPS, FedEx, Purolator (Owned by Canada Post now?), etc..

[andyt]

Curtman Curtman:

I would say the profit pressure is from knowing that if they require gov't subsidies again, they'll be privatized. I don't think Canada Post is an essential service anymore with E-Mail, UPS, FedEx, Purolator (Owned by Canada Post now?), etc..

Yeah it is - first class mail would cost a fortune in less populated areas if CP didn't serve them.

[Dragon-Dancer]

That's generally the issue here, in large cities there isn't any real problem getting mail here and there for a reasonable price but a lot of Canada is still rural and many of those options don't exist in these markets. E-mail is fine for carrying messages at no cost from remote locations (assuming they have decent enough infrastructure in place and many of them still don't yet) but it doesn't do any good for getting package post where it needs to go.

[Lemmy]

andyandy andyandy:

Wonder if it's really 7 weeks tho).

It's 7 weeks once they get 28 years in.

andyandy andyandy:

And the portion of the benefits and pension paid by the employer (bet it's at least 1 to 1) need to be considered during bargaining.

Here's the current agreement.

[Brenda]

It still pisses me off that I have to buy a stamp when I need to send someone something that has a po box next to mine.
And no, no mail carrier here.

[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

I don't agree with unions for civil servants (or for crown corporations). There is no economic pressure on the employer to settle for reasonable wages based on profits. There needs to be a mechanism in place to ensure the civil servants are paid a fair wage, but striking isn't it. I'm all for unionization for large employers in the private sector tho. Those unionized wages could then be used as a basis for civil servant pay.

The government would agree with you. Civil servants in Canada couldn't unionize until the 1960s, decades after everyone else. And the government has an option not available to private entitites--they can just legislate their workers back to work. That's a tool they use quite often.

[smorgdonkey]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Benn Benn:

Reality to Canada Post, you no longer have a monopoly on the way letters etc are sent around, welcome to the 21st century, take the $19 an hour, its a great starting salary for a job that really "should not" even require high school.

Anyone know what this dangerous technology they have implemented here in Winnipeg is?

$19 just to start plus full benefits and pension.

Ok...the $19 to start is a proposal. A proposal which is being fought. Currently I think the starting wage is $23 per hour, but before you run out and get an application...

You will start as a CASUAL with NO BENEFITS. You may only get 5 hours per week. You may get nothing for months and yes, you may get some weeks that you work 40 hours. You will likely be casual for 2 years depending upon where you are in the country. Often what happens is that you will get a call at 11pm asking if you will come to work for 1am and work until 6am. There you go, 5 hours and thanks for coming out - wait by the phone and we'll call you when we call you.

After that 2 years (or more), you might get to be part-time and that's when they consider you a permanent employee. You get 3 weeks vacation and benefits when you become a permanent employee. You will be on midnights but you will get 20-28 hours per week. Good luck with that second job working midnight until 5 am. You will likely stay part time for 2 more years depending on which city that you live in.

If you get full time inside you'll be on midnights for 10-15 or more years and if you go outside as a letter carrier - GOOD LUCK. When you see the letter carrier on a nice day 'strolling up your block' it looks like a great job. You don't realize that they have been in sorting mail from about 7 am (some 6:30am and some later, perhaps 8:30am) and they have likely 4 hours of walking (average about 15KM) with loaded bags.

[Brenda]

I don't want to bitch, smorg, but the same (the casual thing) goes for any retail job, or administrative job at the moment, that pays half of this.

The mail carriers here only work in their own post office (we only have PO boxes) and the rural boxes are done by car.

They also do not walk 15 kms with loaded bags, because the amount of mail that needs to be delivered does not fit in those bags.

[andyt]

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyandy andyandy:

Wonder if it's really 7 weeks tho).

It's 7 weeks once they get 28 years in.

andyandy andyandy:

And the portion of the benefits and pension paid by the employer (bet it's at least 1 to 1) need to be considered during bargaining.

Here's the current agreement.

That's one long agreement. So go ahead and quote the part that says the employer makes no contribution to pension and health benefits if you can. And obviously the employer pays for sick days.

[smorgdonkey]

Brenda Brenda:

I don't want to bitch, smorg, but the same (the casual thing) goes for any retail job, or administrative job at the moment, that pays half of this.

The mail carriers here only work in their own post office (we only have PO boxes) and the rural boxes are done by car.

They also do not walk 15 kms with loaded bags, because the amount of mail that needs to be delivered does not fit in those bags.

Well, I have some news for you then...that is not the union which is on rotating strikes.

I don't know the acronym or anything but they are what we refer to as the 'postmasters union', perhaps PSAC.

andyt andyt:

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyandy andyandy:

Wonder if it's really 7 weeks tho).

It's 7 weeks once they get 28 years in.

andyandy andyandy:

And the portion of the benefits and pension paid by the employer (bet it's at least 1 to 1) need to be considered during bargaining.

Here's the current agreement.

That's one long agreement. So go ahead and quote the part that says the employer makes no contribution to pension and health benefits if you can. And obviously the employer pays for sick days.

I'll break in there and answer that for you without reading the collective agreement (and it IS a long one-I agree) as I have seen you and Lemmy arguing before (and he was wrong then too)...the benefits are definitely contributed to by the employer and the sick days indeed are also paid by the employer.

The benefits are wide ranging but thin covering though as there is a huge list of prescriptions that aren't covered and many dental costs aren't covered - I won't bitch about the benefits but I have worked for perhaps 3 different private sector companies which had better benefits (two of which had better wages).

[Lemmy]

andyt andyt:

That's one long agreement. So go ahead and quote the part that says the employer makes no contribution to pension and health benefits if you can.

That's not what I said. I said that management doesn't make all the contribution. Each CUPE local has different pension plans, so it's not part of the overall collective agreement. Typically the employees contribute about 6% of their gross pay to their pensions; management contributes about the same, somewhere around $3,000 per year.

andyt andyt:

And obviously the employer pays for sick days.

Depends. Depends on the local, depends on the job, depends on the particular employee and it depends on the day taken sick and the type of sickness. Cookie cutter simplifications rarely apply when it comes to public service employee contracts.

Smorgdink Smorgdink:

I'll break in there and answer that for you without reading the collective agreement (and it IS a long one-I agree) as I have seen you and Lemmy arguing before (and he was wrong then too)...the benefits are definitely contributed to by the employer and the sick days indeed are also paid by the employer.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to read it before talking out your arse.