[andyt]

I know, you have no roads where you live, and the few you have are fully funded by the few taxpayers in the region.

$1:

A study released Tuesday morning by the Indiana Fiscal Policy Institute shows residents in metropolitan counties subsidize their rural counterparts by paying more in state taxes than they receive in benefits.

While the results may not be unexpected, they demonstrate for the first time in Indiana the disparity in state tax collections and distributions among urban and rural counties, IFPI President John Ketzenberger said.

“The outcome is not surprising, but it does show what has long been suspected,” he said. “And there’s some value in that.”

$1:

For the first time in memory, possibly for the first time in Canadian history, a prominent government panel is recommending that unsustainable rural areas in Canada's heartland be taken off life support and allowed to die a natural death.

Most of rural Canada cannot sustain itself. Rural residents need help to cover basic needs, from airfare to city hospitals for their medical needs to subsidized energy for their homes. Rural towns need provincial subsidies to cover up to 90% of their infrastructure needs. Rural industries, agriculture above all, need subsidies, too. If the subsidies vanished, so, too, would most farming, logging and mining in remote areas.

http://www.ruralcouncil.ca/rural_phase_out_040421.htm

lots more out there how urban areas subsidize rural ones.

[MeganC]

andyt andyt:

tax what you don't want.

So how do you tax people who want higher/more taxes?

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Instead of tolling roads maybe they could just read your odometer yearly and charge you by the mile. And reduce income taxes/gas tax accordingly.

Or, ya know, the Ontario Liberals could just quit blowing money like a drunken sailor on shore leave. Show a little fiscal restraint for once.

[martin14]

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

Your off base. What about those of who live outside of Toronto and have absolutely no access to public transit.

Oh to hell with them, they all should pay for the glorious enlightened city people.

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Instead of tolling roads maybe they could just read your odometer yearly and charge you by the mile. And reduce income taxes/gas tax accordingly.

Oh, yeah, armies of civil servants running around, all those new jobs, all the bureaucracy to admin that. You need a new job or something ?

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Or, ya know, the Ontario Liberals could just quit blowing money like a drunken sailor on shore leave. Show a little fiscal restraint for once.

Stop talking sense, it hurts andy when you talk like that.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

martin14 martin14:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Or, ya know, the Ontario Liberals could just quit blowing money like a drunken sailor on shore leave. Show a little fiscal restraint for once.

Stop talking sense, it hurts andy when you talk like that.

Yep, they want to sell off a majority of Ontario Hydro/Hydro One to fund Toronto transit, but they got $2.5 billion to blow on some second rate athletic event taking place in...Toronto.

You also probably noticed the lack of left-wing losers protesting the current Pan Am Games, unlike the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver.

[OnTheIce]

andyt andyt:

As the report says, it's for transportation infrastructure. That would include people living outside TO. I'm also surprised to read that only TO has transit in Ontario.

Do you live in Toronto? Ontario?

If you did, you'd know that the transit system sucks. It's brutal. It's not an option for most in the 905 unless you're going directly into the downtown core.

The subway system in Toronto is a joke.

[andyt]

You're making my point. Your transit system needs improvement, you'll never build your self out of congestion by building roads. Either way tho, it takes money, lots of it, to make those improvements. Here's a way to get that money without just going into more debt. This is what you get when you flood the country with immigrants, and 85% of them go to TO or Vancouver. We face the same issues here, except apparently compared to TO, our transit system is actually pretty good. But it's starting to fail because it is aging and not being kept up, and it's not servicing the regions with the greatest growth.

[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Instead of tolling roads maybe they could just read your odometer yearly and charge you by the mile. And reduce income taxes/gas tax accordingly.

The idea is to bring in badly needed revenue, so no point to what you are proposing.

If users paid for the use there would be incentive to use it less. Same wiht insurance in general. It's ludicrous that aguy racking up 1000 km a year in a vehicle is paying the same insurance rates as a guy racking up 20000 km.

[OnTheIce]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

andyt andyt:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Instead of tolling roads maybe they could just read your odometer yearly and charge you by the mile. And reduce income taxes/gas tax accordingly.

The idea is to bring in badly needed revenue, so no point to what you are proposing.

If users paid for the use there would be incentive to use it less.

But there has to be a viable alternative first.

You can't jack the price with the hopes people will turn to other means when those other means aren't there or aren't adequate to handle the existing volume let alone more volume.

Toronto's transit system is jammed. The roads are jammed.

[Zipperfish]

Everywhere is jammed. Vancouver, Toronto, London, New York, LA, Rome. Frickin' Kabul! What is the answer, besides "let's complain about the government some more."

What I'm proposing is to move roads to more of a user pay system. Obviously we can't privatize them altogether, but they cost a lot of money and those that use them a lot are being subsidized by those that don't.

Newsflash: Nobody wants to take the bus. I find it unpleasant. It's jam-packed. People are in your personal space. It's hot. It's uncomfortable. But I live in Vancouver which means half my cheque goes to the house and I have to take the bus because it's a hell of a lot cheaper. If I had the money I'd be in an air conditioned Audi.

In my opinion Transit is going to be a viable option in terms of comfort and convenience ever. People are going to move to Transit because they can't afford to drive.

Exception: The Seabus. Wonderful experience!

[Zipperfish]

martin14 martin14:

Oh, yeah, armies of civil servants running around, all those new jobs, all the bureaucracy to admin that. You need a new job or something ?

Actually you could do it with a fuel tax at the pump, since virtually all the fuel that is sold there goes into vehicles using the roads. The fuel tax would go up appreciably, since now the entire highway infrastructure budget would come out of it. But you could drop income tax appreciably too, since we're all probably paying a couple of grand a year just for roads.

It's a less socialist system.

[OnTheIce]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Everywhere is jammed. Vancouver, Toronto, London, New York, LA, Rome. Frickin' Kabul! What is the answer, besides "let's complain about the government some more."

What I'm proposing is to move roads to more of a user pay system. Obviously we can't privatize them altogether, but they cost a lot of money and those that use them a lot are being subsidized by those that don't.

Newsflash: Nobody wants to take the bus. I find it unpleasant. It's jam-packed. People are in your personal space. It's hot. It's uncomfortable. But I live in Vancouver which means half my cheque goes to the house and I have to take the bus because it's a hell of a lot cheaper. If I had the money I'd be in an air conditioned Audi.

In my opinion Transit is going to be a viable option in terms of comfort and convenience ever. People are going to move to Transit because they can't afford to drive.

Exception: The Seabus. Wonderful experience!

I know what your saying. However, you can't bring in a user pay system without the transit system to support the people who are forced into transit.

[Zipperfish]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

I know what your saying. However, you can't bring in a user pay system without the transit system to support the people who are forced into transit.

True enough. We've been fortuante here--a major infrastructure upgrade almost every year. Olympics was a big driver.

[CDN_PATRIOT]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Or, ya know, the Ontario Liberals could just quit blowing money like a drunken sailor on shore leave. Show a little fiscal restraint for once.

When hell freezes over.


-J.

[andyt]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

andyt andyt:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Instead of tolling roads maybe they could just read your odometer yearly and charge you by the mile. And reduce income taxes/gas tax accordingly.

The idea is to bring in badly needed revenue, so no point to what you are proposing.

If users paid for the use there would be incentive to use it less. Same wiht insurance in general. It's ludicrous that aguy racking up 1000 km a year in a vehicle is paying the same insurance rates as a guy racking up 20000 km.

You are missing the point - you said that the road tolls should be revenue neutral, if the govt foregoes income/gas tax revenue. They need money badly for infrastructure - your proposal doesn't accomplish that.