[Scape]

Mukluk Mukluk:

Validating the information on a document you signed (tax audit) is not the same as being stopped by the police for no reason to see if you are committing a crime.

The document signed on the taxes is a declaration that this is a true total and that you can be held liable if your report is found to be inaccurate. People go to jail for tax evasion/fraud as this is a crime. A drivers permit is also a document that is signed off on declaring the driver will adhere to the law of the province. Drunk driving is a crime, ergo a breach of that contract.

Spot checks are not warrants but neither are they home invasions on private property as the roads are public. There is a responsibility to maintain order and protect the public vs threats and DD kills. In areas where there is a history of DD the police already set up checkpoints and they very well may have suspicions on who the DD are but can only apprehend when they are in the act but that is not probable cause.

There very much is a reason. The blood that paints the roads is it. Alcoholism, is a medical condition and people are not jailed for illnesses. But they do need to seen as a threat to be removed from society or at least from behind the wheel for actions that put others at risk. The current regime simply allows them to get wise to how things are done making them even more dangerous drunks with an Icarus complex.

[Bacardi4206]

ASLplease ASLplease:

don't you get it? they are already allowed to pull someone over for suspected drunk driving. The proposal is about pulling people over that they don't suspect.

"Random" means no plan, no strategy, no efficiency, no law enforcement skills being used.......we are going to rely on the luck of the draw to catch the drunks.

Uh... yes I got that by the word 'random' pulling over. I still do not see the problem since breathalyzer tests don't take long. This whole idea is to catch drunk drivers off guard. This isn't threatening your freedoms or rights. The cop pulls you over, gives you a simple breathalyzer and you pass and go on about your day. You need not worry unless you are a drunk driver and if you are it's not the cops who are abusing your rights. It's you who are abusing the law thinking you can put others in danger by drinking and driving just because you would rather drive than call a cab.

[ASLplease]

let me ask you this question: do you randomly cycle count your stock room, or do you develop a strategy to cycle count the portions of your stock room that are likely to have problems?

[ASLplease]

let me ask another question: if you have 100 drivers and only 3 are drunk. What is the least effective way for a single police officer to catch the 3 drunks?

[Scape]

Not doing anything and hoping the DD see the error of their ways which is for all intensive purposes the current setup?

[Bacardi4206]

ASLplease ASLplease:

let me ask you this question: do you randomly cycle count your stock room, or do you develop a strategy to cycle count the portions of your stock room that are likely to have problems?

I would if that strategy diddn't work and was complete shit. Much like cops trying to find drunk drivers. Imagine yourself a cop using the current method of finding drunk drivers. You are patrolling a high-way at night and you got to look at each car. Every day you got to go out there and look for simple signs of drunk driving. Such as swirving cars and people drinking in the car. Now imagine the actual possability of you actually driving and discovering somebody stupid enough to actually do that? Majority of the cops who find drunk drivers are cops who pull them over for other reasons such as running a red light or a broken rear light. Generally they would just give them a ticket but once they notice they are drunk. They give them a breathalyzer and arrest them for DUI.

How exactly is that a great method for catching drunk drivers? It's not. Most car accidents could have been prevented if cops could catch drunk drivers beforehand. However it's pretty difficult to find them. Random tests atleast can catch them off guard and actually give a high percent chance of catching them and preventing accidents earler on. Not only that but actually make the driver think twice before he puts his life and others in danger next time he drinks.

[Yogi]

Time to 'put this one to bed'!

I say give it a trial run and then compare the stats. If, thereby, random checks prove to be a benefit, it becomes law.

[Bacardi4206]

Yogi Yogi:

Time to 'put this one to bed'!

I say give it a trial run and then compare the stats. If, thereby, random checks prove to be a benefit, it becomes law.

Party pooper

[Zipperfish]

Scape Scape:

The document signed on the taxes is a declaration that this is a true total and that you can be held liable if your report is found to be inaccurate. People go to jail for tax evasion/fraud as this is a crime. A drivers permit is also a document that is signed off on declaring the driver will adhere to the law of the province. Drunk driving is a crime, ergo a breach of that contract.

Spot checks are not warrants but neither are they home invasions on private property as the roads are public. There is a responsibility to maintain order and protect the public vs threats and DD kills. In areas where there is a history of DD the police already set up checkpoints and they very well may have suspicions on who the DD are but can only apprehend when they are in the act but that is not probable cause.

There very much is a reason. The blood that paints the roads is it. Alcoholism, is a medical condition and people are not jailed for illnesses. But they do need to seen as a threat to be removed from society or at least from behind the wheel for actions that put others at risk. The current regime simply allows them to get wise to how things are done making them even more dangerous drunks with an Icarus complex.

Checking your taxes is not placing you under arrest. Making you blow places you under arrest.

[Zipperfish]

Bacardi Bacardi:

This isn't threatening your freedoms or rights.

Yes it is.

[JustKate]

I still seriously think this is a slippery slope we're on. Cops in this country will probably have a problem with it I'm sure, getting citizens to do this.

It seems like the bad apples are making consequences for the majority, if you can't see it that way, you might one day when you are late for something important because you were held up giving a breathalyzer!!!! Think about it a little more!

That's why I mentioned the boating, some Canadian's are just fishing in a boat on a weekend having a beer and NOW, some few amount of assholes screwed that for us all! Not everyone gets DRUNK!!! But get that breathalyzer out and test them in case, don't matter if they seem fine.

Whatever, enjoy! While you still can!

[JustKate]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Bacardi Bacardi:

This isn't threatening your freedoms or rights.

Yes it is.

It is absolutely, I can't believe some can't see it that way????

[Bacardi4206]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Bacardi Bacardi:

This isn't threatening your freedoms or rights.

Yes it is.

Because a cop can randomly pull you over for a test that can help save lives but putting a stop to drunk drivers? I would understand that if say cops were only randomly pulling over blacks or muslims, etc. Invading your home randomly is against your right but as soon as your in your car and on the road. You are subjected to be pulled over for whatever reason.

I don't understand what exact right is being broken here? The right to drive without being bothered?

[martin14]

Brenda Brenda:

I must admit, btw, that in Holland, it was pretty normal. I guess I have a different mindset on it because of that.

I have regularly been pulled over (at 11.30 on a Saturday night, or on a Monday afternoon) and been asked if I had a problem with taking the test? Of course not, bring it on! I don't drink and drive, so I do not care.

so there is a difference

The first few times I was stopped by a cop sitting on the side of the road,
I was pretty pissed. After all, not doing anything illegal or stupid, not speeding,
what right do the cops have to pull me over ? Freaking Commies.....

What was more surprising is the locals all figured this was normal life,
and a little surprised to hear how angry I was.

Scape continually tries to make this an enforcement issue. It isn't.
People dont cheat on their taxes because they are afraid of being caught,
and are more afraid of the penalties involved. Trust me on this..
We didnt pay any taxes before 2004, because we knew we wouldnt be caught.
Then the regime changed, enforcement stepped up, and changes made to encourage
people to file a half honest declaration.. i.e. flat taxes.
The penalties also got much worse. So time to pay.


Fact is the police catch lots of drunk drivers.

The problem seems to lie that the punishments are not enough to dissuade people
from stopping doing it. That is the part that need to change.

Try living in a society that permits this, you'll find out real quick you don't
like it. And yes, it is a slippery slope issue.
Curbing freedom will not solve this, changing peoples' views about drunk driving will.

[martin14]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

You are subjected to be pulled over for whatever reason.

Thats the whole point Bacardi, this law would allow the police to stop you for NO reason.


At least now, the cops need something to pull you over.