[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I think it was a huge waste of cash intially because it was handled so badly. That said, the cash has been spent.

It is of use, if we can keep costs reasonable we should keep it.

Quit agreeing with me, you're making me nervous.

[EyeBrock]

It's my evil plan andy. I'm lulling you into a false sense of security. Ask me something on the G20......

[ASLplease]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I think it was a huge waste of cash intially because it was handled so badly. That said, the cash has been spent.

It is of use, if we can keep costs reasonable we should keep it.

is of use?

there are only 140 homicides by firearm per year in Canada, and only 7% are with registered longguns.....so with rough math, that is 10 registered firearms per year that are used in a homicide.

Now if we were to look at how many MORE might have been PREVENTED by the registry....there is only 1 rational conclusion. the registry hasn't proven useful in preventing any homicides at all.

You must be thinking 'thats ridiculous!' ' totally absurd!' 'surely it should have saved at least 1 life!' and normally I'd agree with you except one important thing..

...the rates - although tragic, yes. even 1 death is tragic - are virtually non-existant.

How does anyone hope to cause significant change to a non existant rate - not by focusing on the murderers that commit the crime - but by focusing on a law abiding group? How wrong is that? How ignorant is that?

[ASLplease]

Do you realize that with a rate of 140 homicides, and over 41,000 members in the Canadian Police Association alone - even if we discount the fact that we have homicide departments that specialize in these cases - most police officers will go through their entire career without being at the scene of the crime of more that 1 homicide by firearm. And, guess what, unfortunately, the victim will already be dead. And, the registry wont prevent that from happening.

Registries dont take away firearms from criminals, that is an accomplishment that can only be attained by more police officers.

[fifeboy]

FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:

Excellent! So we can watch stabbing and other methods of killing go up. Note the sarcasm.

Shake it a few times before you put it back in your pants dude. Your argument is like the one I read in a gun mag a few years ago saying we should also ban frozen squirrels because they could be used to beat people to death.

[fifeboy]

RUEZ RUEZ:

bootlegga bootlegga:

And the car registry your province/territory runs will not protect you from getting run over by a stolen car either. Yet I don't hear anyone hear bitching about having to register their car...

Talk about distorting the facts...

I'm not forced to register my car.

If you never drive it anywhere you aren't. However, if you parked your unregistered car on the street you would be fined and it would be towed.

[EyeBrock]

See, the homicide/murder rate minor percentage by registered long guns belies the proactive police-work and enforcement that has happened since the registry was enacted.

Sure, legislatively, there were definite breaches of established gun-ownership privileges.

Some of the sentences given by the courts to Joe Bloggs gun owner for failing to register or not having an FAC were more severe than the judgements against convicted Toronto gang-bangers.

Very silly and Dr Calebs story is a common illustration of the ills of the registry.

That aside, the money has been spent.

I can tell you when a domestic call goes in on 911 and the chaps and chappesses in blue know there are registered firearms in the house, it’s a really good bit of info to get.

Most domestics are between people without criminal records.

Law abiding citizens that could lawfully own firearms.

Occurrences that end in arrest also incorporate weapons seizures if they are present.
Once everything is sorted the gun owner gets their weapons back, if they are not convicted of a criminal offence involving violence.

Its a power that Parliament granted the cops to stem the rising tide of domestic violence.

Something like this common set of circumstances would not be captured in the homicide rate. As in the chick was saved.

[RUEZ]

fifeboy fifeboy:

RUEZ RUEZ:

bootlegga bootlegga:

And the car registry your province/territory runs will not protect you from getting run over by a stolen car either. Yet I don't hear anyone hear bitching about having to register their car...

Talk about distorting the facts...

I'm not forced to register my car.

If you never drive it anywhere you aren't. However, if you parked your unregistered car on the street you would be fined and it would be towed.

I could park my car on my five acres, drive it all over my property and never break the law. The same can't be said for a firearm.

[fifeboy]

RUEZ RUEZ:

I could park my car on my five acres, drive it all over my property and never break the law. The same can't be said for a firearm.

Quite true. But a car is not a firearm and the law says you need to register it . That may or may not change in the next few months. The guy who represents my riding will vote to get rid of it, but than I didn't vote for him The RCMP appear to think the registry is ok, the Police Chiefs same, and I don't know if Brock is a front line cop or a chief of police, but he seems to think it should stay. Why not?

The main argument I have heard against the registry is that it keeps people from owning private property. I don't see it. I own a bunch of firearms and they are all registered. Wasn't a biggie to do it. I can get a new gun when I want. Has me scratching my fleas?

[ASLplease]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Something like this common set of circumstances would not be captured in the homicide rate. As in the chick was saved.

really? tell me what percentage of chicks BEFORE the registry might have been saved? ie we could estimate that only 10 out 140 would have registered, and how many of those 10 were domestic disputes? and of the domestic disputes that resulted in death, how many of them involving a police officer showing up before the homicide where an attempt to identify if a firearm was on the premises failed to produce a seized firearm?

[ASLplease]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

See, the homicide/murder rate minor percentage by registered long guns belies the proactive police-work and enforcement that has happened since the registry was enacted.

See now there's another assertion that I'd like you to provide a citation for. There are stats for the number of longguns used in homicide prior to the registry, can you show me stats that even remotely support your claim?

[herbie]

Take dat shotgun ouda yore mouth dare, George! Dat ting's registered, dare gonna know who dunnit, eh!

Oh shit, I never tot a dat! Here you take it Ralph an pass me dat straight razor, okay?

[RUEZ]

fifeboy fifeboy:

RUEZ RUEZ:

I could park my car on my five acres, drive it all over my property and never break the law. The same can't be said for a firearm.

Quite true. But a car is not a firearm and the law says you need to register it . That may or may not change in the next few months. The guy who represents my riding will vote to get rid of it, but than I didn't vote for him The RCMP appear to think the registry is ok, the Police Chiefs same, and I don't know if Brock is a front line cop or a chief of police, but he seems to think it should stay. Why not?

The main argument I have heard against the registry is that it keeps people from owning private property. I don't see it. I own a bunch of firearms and they are all registered. Wasn't a biggie to do it. I can get a new gun when I want. Has me scratching my fleas?

I don't like the registry because it was the liberal governments solution to gun crime, target the honest gun owner. Anyway my point about the registration was that someone said that we don't complain about registering our cars but there isn't much of a comparison.

[EyeBrock]

ASLplease ASLplease:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

See, the homicide/murder rate minor percentage by registered long guns belies the proactive police-work and enforcement that has happened since the registry was enacted.

See now there's another assertion that I'd like you to provide a citation for. There are stats for the number of longguns used in homicide prior to the registry, can you show me stats that even remotely support your claim?

A citation? Check FOI in your local area. I'm awfully sorry for disagreeing with you.

[ASLplease]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Occurrences that end in arrest also incorporate weapons seizures if they are present.
Once everything is sorted the gun owner gets their weapons back, if they are not convicted of a criminal offence involving violence.

So please highlight how the police officer does this. I already know that a person can be licensed to possess a firearm and not own a firearm.

Yet, he may have borrowed a firearm from another licensee, legally.

Does the police officer find the registry useful in this case? He wont, because the registry is not like a real time inventory control system, ie it doesn't tell you the location of all firearms at all times.

I suggest the registry is replaced with a warrant to search the premises, something that can be attained without a longgun registry.