[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

Simply stopping immigration from Pakistan won't accomplish much. England already has many Pakistanis, who have formed self perpetuating enclaves. As much the fault of English racism and classism as refusal by Pakistanis to integrate. Same deal as in France with Muslims from Africa. Why are Canadian Muslims so much better integrated, they come from the same source countries?

Your solution of everything is everybody's fault doesn't really land us anywhere either.

$1:

What's needed is authorities getting over themselves about being accused of racism and not acting. And stop holding exactly the same attitudes as the Pakistanis involved - that the girls are scum.

There is no moral equivalency, in my mind, between repeatedly raping adn beating children and being criminally negligent. You seem to want to spread the blame around equally to everyone. No--the men who raped those children are first and foremost to blame, and then we can move on to the facilitators, the crimes of omission.

$1:

None of that will solve girls being enslaved tho. Worldwide phenom.

Probably exactly what those authorities in charge thought about it. Just white trash being white trash. There's no point in doing anything about it because it'll just go on anyway. And it will. They still should have done somethign about it though.

[martin14]

andyt andyt:

Why are Canadian Muslims so much better integrated, they come from the same source countries?

They aren't.
The numbers are different; for now.

[N_Fiddledog]

There's one here that I would recommend not reading, because there's too much leftist media, mealy-mouth apology, yet self-stroking bullshit, but he gets off a couple good ones.

#1.

$1:

‘I didn’t want to appear racist’ is the ‘I was only obeying orders’ of our age

#2.

$1:

Political correctness was supposed to make us nicer, but in reality it just makes people stupider. As anyone who has done any sort of online test will tell you, much of human intelligence comes down to pattern recognition; the whole purpose of political correctness is to stop us noticing patterns even when they stare us in the face.

[BartSimpson]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

There's one here that I would recommend not reading, because there's too much leftist media, mealy-mouth apology, yet self-stroking bullshit, but he gets off a couple good ones.

#1.

$1:

‘I didn’t want to appear racist’ is the ‘I was only obeying orders’ of our age

#2.

$1:

Political correctness was supposed to make us nicer, but in reality it just makes people stupider. As anyone who has done any sort of online test will tell you, much of human intelligence comes down to pattern recognition; the whole purpose of political correctness is to stop us noticing patterns even when they stare us in the face.

Thank you for posting those two quotes. That last one really nails it. It's now in my signature.

[andyt]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

$1:

None of that will solve girls being enslaved tho. Worldwide phenom.

Probably exactly what those authorities in charge thought about it. Just white trash being white trash. There's no point in doing anything about it because it'll just go on anyway. And it will. They still should have done somethign about it though.

Exactly. So you can ban immigration from Pstan and it won't accomplish much. Next time it will be a gang of other ethnicity or a UN gang or what have you. If the cops have the attitude that these girls don't deserve better or are willing participants, nothing with change. Change the attitude of the cops and authorities, and even if there's still immigration from Pstan, there's much better hope of catching it earlier. This is not a phenomenon that is somehow exclusive to Pstanis.

[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

$1:

None of that will solve girls being enslaved tho. Worldwide phenom.

Probably exactly what those authorities in charge thought about it. Just white trash being white trash. There's no point in doing anything about it because it'll just go on anyway. And it will. They still should have done somethign about it though.

Exactly. So you can ban immigration from Pstan and it won't accomplish much. Next time it will be a gang of other ethnicity or a UN gang or what have you. If the cops have the attitude that these girls don't deserve better or are willing participants, nothing with change. Change the attitude of the cops and authorities, and even if there's still immigration from Pstan, there's much better hope of catching it earlier. This is not a phenomenon that is somehow exclusive to Pstanis.

No it isn't. But from my point of view, two points:

Islam--at least the variety commonly practiced in Pakistan-- was a contributing factor. The subjugation of women, the attitude towards non-believers and the disdain for secular laws. Even the comments by a "progressive" Muslims betrays this. He said that young Muslims have to hear clearly from Muslim leaders that this is wrong. Really? The fact that raping children is considered an abhorrent crime in contemporary Western culture isn't enough? They have to hear it from other Muslims?

Secondly, the crimes of the authorities--recklesness, endangerment, negligence--are bad, but not as bad as raping, beating and enslaving children. There is no moral equivalency there, except to say that both groups treated the victims as sub-human. The perpetrators due to their relgiion and the authorities due to their class. In my opinion anyway.

[andyt]

It's not morally equivalent, but in some ways it's worse. Just as when a cop commits a crime - they should be held to a higher standard. SO, no, I don't agree with those that said the cops should face the same penalty as the perps. I'm not even sure the cops committed a crime. But they should lose their jobs, they are not suitable.

Sure, Islam for large part is stuck in the past. So now tho, you're saying stop all Muslim immigration, not just Pstanis. There are many Muslims who would never think of doing this. They may have archaic attitudes to women's rights, but that's a long way from what these pukes did. And again, the Eastern Europeans seem capable of equal barbarism, no Islam involved.

.

[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

It's not morally equivalent, but in some ways it's worse. Just as when a cop commits a crime - they should be held to a higher standard. SO, no, I don't agree with those that said the cops should face the same penalty as the perps. I'm not even sure the cops committed a crime. But they should lose their jobs, they are not suitable.

Sure, Islam for large part is stuck in the past. So now tho, you're saying stop all Muslim immigration, not just Pstanis. There are many Muslims who would never think of doing this. They may have archaic attitudes to women's rights, but that's a long way from what these pukes did. And again, the Eastern Europeans seem capable of equal barbarism, no Islam involved.

.

Well, I was pretty fired up at the time. Muslims raping our white girls and all that. I would say develop an immigration policy that respects the fact that having large numbers of foreign cultures come in will result in societal convulsion, in pretty much direct relation to the number let in. It happened witht he Italians and the Irish in America, and America somehow survived and even grew from it, because now we have pizza and St. Patty's Day.

Like all historical analogies this is the same…but different. There is a call for jihad from several countries. There is global instand communication. And there is a radical Islam movement in the UK. It just seems prudent to develop immigration policies that will not exacerbate the situation. They need to. The UKIP will get imense support as a result of this. If they get in, there will be violence.

[ccga3359]

Apparently those involved were not responsible: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -buck.html

My thoughts are they may not have committed the rape but they aided and abetted after the fact so should be held accountable. At the very least akin to dereliction of duty, this was their jobs. Unfortunately they were a labour council and with labour poised to gain power next year it will be swept under the carpet. Also many of the guilty ringleaders are second generation.

What bothers me most is the sheer numbers of those guilty. As many as 1400 victims used as prostitutes that would put the number of johns in the thousands. given that this community is loath to assimilate with the wider community it is sure mostly Pakistani moslems performing these acts of pedophilia.

[Zipperfish]

ccga3359 ccga3359:

What bothers me most is the sheer numbers of those guilty. As many as 1400 victims used as prostitutes that would put the number of johns in the thousands. given that this community is loath to assimilate with the wider community it is sure mostly Pakistani moslems performing these acts of pedophilia.

Are you a Brit ccga? I grew up not far from this place, in Bridlington.

I think you nailed it. The sheer enormity of it bothers me. 16 years. Likely thousands of perps. 1400 girls abused "as a conservative estimate." Dozens of warnings and reports and complaints indicating trouble.

[ccga3359]

I am, was born in Crawley, Sussex. Being a small town we didn't have the influx of immigration. I left in '76 aged 10 so things sure have changed.

[Zipperfish]

ccga3359 ccga3359:

I am, was born in Crawley, Sussex. Being a small town we didn't have the influx of immigration. I left in '76 aged 10 so things sure have changed.

Ha! I left in '76 aged 10 as well.

[BeaverFever]

I don't see how this has anything to do with the fact that they're Muslim. I mean nobody claims that eastern European gangs, who are some of the largest women traffickers, do it because they're Orthodox Christian.

In all likelihood these perps probably aren't very religious and simply just criminal members of the underclass.

[Zipperfish]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I don't see how this has anything to do with the fact that they're Muslim. I mean nobody claims that eastern European gangs, who are some of the largest women traffickers, do it because they're Orthodox Christian.

In all likelihood these perps probably aren't very religious and simply just criminal members of the underclass.

It's not just the identity of the perpetrators, it's the identity of the victims.

Perpetrators=overwhelmingly Pakistani Muslims
Victims=overwhelmingly lower class white/mixed race girls.

[andyt]

In BC there are quite a few sexual attacks perpetrated by Sikhs. Not that other groups don't also do so, but I do think that some Sikhs also see white western women as sluts who all want it. Add to the fact that in Punjab things are not much more liberated for women than in Muslims countries, they come over here and see women dressed very revealingly and I think for some of them it just fries their brain. But then we westerners still struggle with it, with that cop talking about how women dress and the resulting slut walk. I know when I grew up, the thought was still that women wanted to be pressured into having sex because it gave them an excuse, they could say they couldn't help it.

I doubt if these were devout Muslims, as you say. It's the culture they come from. And that culture was allowed to perpetuate itself in England, because when you bring in large numbers all at once from such a culture they will cluster together and not integrate. Add the racism and classism of the English that also didn't make these people feel welcome, and there you go. As ccga, says, they were second generation.

Focusing on the fact they were Muslim, takes the focus off the fact the system didn't respond properly to protect these girls. If things are allowed to remain that way because the assumption is the Muslims have been dealt with just gives room for another non-Muslim group to do the same thing.