[Newsbot]

Title: Soccer game or tear gas? Palestinians put controversial ad to test
Category: Political
Posted By: romanP
Date: 2009-07-22 08:56:27

[GreenTiger]

I'm going to blow the topic of this tread.


This reminds me of a story from WW I (and is actually true) It was Christmas eve and the Britsh soldiers in their trenches starting singing "silent Night". The Germans hearing this over no-mans land started singin Silent Night as well.

One very brave German held up a small christmas tree with candles lit and the British did not shoot at an obvious target.

A brave Brish Officer dis the same and the Germans didn't shoot him either.

They made an "informal" Christmas truce. During the morning both sides buried their own dead and in the afternoon they played soccer. Something like this situation and talked to each other.

THe higher ranking officers on both sides were equally alarmed. As they weren't sure how to get the fighting going again as its a lot harder to kill somebody you don't know than to kill somebody you shared some schnaps with the day before.

Both aries transferren in fresh troops and resumed the war. This was never repeated, but for a momeny both sides saw each other as human beings making it slightly harder to start the killing again.

So while a situation like this is very unlikely, it's not impossible.

[ridenrain]

The Palastinians can get bent. Their just as pathetic as the Tamil Tigers.

[Praxius]

GreenTiger GreenTiger:

I'm going to blow the topic of this tread.


This reminds me of a story from WW I (and is actually true) It was Christmas eve and the Britsh soldiers in their trenches starting singing "silent Night". The Germans hearing this over no-mans land started singin Silent Night as well.

One very brave German held up a small christmas tree with candles lit and the British did not shoot at an obvious target.

A brave Brish Officer dis the same and the Germans didn't shoot him either.

They made an "informal" Christmas truce. During the morning both sides buried their own dead and in the afternoon they played soccer. Something like this situation and talked to each other.

THe higher ranking officers on both sides were equally alarmed. As they weren't sure how to get the fighting going again as its a lot harder to kill somebody you don't know than to kill somebody you shared some schnaps with the day before.

Both aries transferren in fresh troops and resumed the war. This was never repeated, but for a momeny both sides saw each other as human beings making it slightly harder to start the killing again.

So while a situation like this is very unlikely, it's not impossible.

What does this have to do with the commercial showing faceless Palastinians kicking a ball and playing a game with Israeli Soldiers, whom in real life launch tear gas at real Palastinians who actually attempt to do this and who also take their ball away?

Oh wait, the above link doesn't even show the commercial the video supplied was based on... not getting all the story.

Here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/1 ... 31604.html

As it goes for the differences between Palastinians and Israelis, or Israelis and any other of their neighbors, no one side is innocent in creating these situations of terror and suffering on both sides.

It may have seemed like a nobel little commercial showing how wonderful and happy life really is there for both sides, but the bigger message in the commercial would the fact that they have to kick a ball over a giant wall which symbolizes their divisions and everything that lead up to it being created in the first place.

I would have seen a different message if it was Israeli's in regular clothes (civilians, if there is such a thing in Israel) kicking a ball to Palastinian civilians, whom you actually had a chance to see a face of and make it a wee bit more personal.

All I seen was a bunch of Israeli troops which not many on the other side of the wall are very fond of, kicking a ball to the other side of the wall, to a faceless enemy.

Some say the Palastinians can get bent.... I say they all can get bent, Israel included.... until they figure their petty crap out and stop acting like both are in the right and lobbing atrocities against one another.

I can not personally support or back any side of a conflict when both act in an equal fashion to one another and have total disregard for civilian life. There is no lesser of two evils, as both are just as bad.

But because one's a so-called Democracy and so many western nations funneled resources and money into it, doesn't automatically mean they deserve my support without question, regardless of what they do.

And I'll jump ahead here for a second before the reply even comes, that if anybody decides to pull out that BS Anti-Semite card for what I just said, perhaps they should stop and re-read what I said very carefully, as it wouldn't be the first time someone pulled that out because I simply didn't support what they support without question.

Respect and Support is earned, not given by default.

[MAC1767]

Praxius Praxius:

GreenTiger GreenTiger:

I'm going to blow the topic of this tread.


This reminds me of a story from WW I (and is actually true) It was Christmas eve and the Britsh soldiers in their trenches starting singing "silent Night". The Germans hearing this over no-mans land started singin Silent Night as well.

One very brave German held up a small christmas tree with candles lit and the British did not shoot at an obvious target.

A brave Brish Officer dis the same and the Germans didn't shoot him either.

They made an "informal" Christmas truce. During the morning both sides buried their own dead and in the afternoon they played soccer. Something like this situation and talked to each other.

THe higher ranking officers on both sides were equally alarmed. As they weren't sure how to get the fighting going again as its a lot harder to kill somebody you don't know than to kill somebody you shared some schnaps with the day before.

Both aries transferren in fresh troops and resumed the war. This was never repeated, but for a momeny both sides saw each other as human beings making it slightly harder to start the killing again.

So while a situation like this is very unlikely, it's not impossible.

What does this have to do with the commercial showing faceless Palastinians kicking a ball and playing a game with Israeli Soldiers, whom in real life launch tear gas at real Palastinians who actually attempt to do this and who also take their ball away?

Oh wait, the above link doesn't even show the commercial the video supplied was based on... not getting all the story.

Here:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/14/israel-wall-commercial-sp_n_231604.html">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/1 ... 31604.html</a><!-- m -->

As it goes for the differences between Palastinians and Israelis, or Israelis and any other of their neighbors, no one side is innocent in creating these situations of terror and suffering on both sides.

It may have seemed like a nobel little commercial showing how wonderful and happy life really is there for both sides, but the bigger message in the commercial would the fact that they have to kick a ball over a giant wall which symbolizes their divisions and everything that lead up to it being created in the first place.

I would have seen a different message if it was Israeli's in regular clothes (civilians, if there is such a thing in Israel) kicking a ball to Palastinian civilians, whom you actually had a chance to see a face of and make it a wee bit more personal.

All I seen was a bunch of Israeli troops which not many on the other side of the wall are very fond of, kicking a ball to the other side of the wall, to a faceless enemy.

Some say the Palastinians can get bent.... I say they all can get bent, Israel included.... until they figure their petty crap out and stop acting like both are in the right and lobbing atrocities against one another.

I can not personally support or back any side of a conflict when both act in an equal fashion to one another and have total disregard for civilian life. There is no lesser of two evils, as both are just as bad.

But because one's a so-called Democracy and so many western nations funneled resources and money into it, doesn't automatically mean they deserve my support without question, regardless of what they do.

And I'll jump ahead here for a second before the reply even comes, that if anybody decides to pull out that BS Anti-Semite card for what I just said, perhaps they should stop and re-read what I said very carefully, as it wouldn't be the first time someone pulled that out because I simply didn't support what they support without question.

Respect and Support is earned, not given by default.

well said,

[ridenrain]

hmmm.. struggling democratic state or proxy terrorists supported by an insane Islamic dictatorship. I think I'm going to have to side against the one who refuses to accept the other.

[Proculation]

ridenrain ridenrain:

hmmm.. struggling democratic state or proxy terrorists supported by an insane Islamic dictatorship. I think I'm going to have to side against the one who refuses to accept the other.

Haha. Awesome picture.

[Praxius]

ridenrain ridenrain:

hmmm.. struggling democratic state or proxy terrorists supported by an insane Islamic dictatorship. I think I'm going to have to side against the one who refuses to accept the other.

Sounds like both don't accept the other, as who is the one who keeps taking more and more land, making illegal settlements even by Israeli law and basically pushing the other into the ocean?

Just because one is democratic and the other is islamic, doesn't mean one has justification to ignore the issues of the one you don't relate to and ignore the recorded and proven actions against civilians and total disregard for human life.

They launch crappy rockets into Israel and 90% of the time hit nothing or they collapse in mid air, killing at the most, maybe 2 or 3 people.... usually it only takes one, and then suddenly Israel thinks they're justified in launching a full scale attack on anything that moves, using cluster bombs and white phosphorus in heavy civilian populated areas, while claiming the enemy is using civilians as human shields, when in fact Israel's own troops have come forward to confirm that they were ordered to use human shields themselves.

Israel troops admit Gaza abuses
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7952603.stm

Israeli soldiers admit abuse against Gaza civilians
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS ... 780158.cms

$1:

"The troops regularly used civilians as human shields when approaching suspect houses during the December and January conflict, one soldier said.

"To every house we close in on, we send the neighbour in, the 'Johnnie'," he said of an incident in which a man was sent into a house several times during breaks in the fighting to check on three militants holed up there.

Another soldier said his commander told him of instances when "the force would enter while placing rifle barrels on a civilian's shoulder, advancing into a house and using him as a human shield."

Many troops said that they were told to shoot first and ask questions later, leading to civilian deaths and massive destruction in the densely populated and impoverished Palestinian enclave."

"Well Israel was attacked and have every right to defend themselves" ~ I hear all the time.

Which is true.... yet does that give them the right to pull out all the stops and shot at anything they see and disregard all civilian life, thus stooping to the same level as those they want help against?

Maybe they think if they beat the living crap out of the enemy and their civilians enough and kill as many as possible, they'll give up.... right?

Hasn't worked yet and the more innocent people killed only increases the amount of people seeking revenge for those lost innocent..... and the cycle continues.

Both have to bend their wills in order to reach some sort of agreement, and if neither are willing to do this, then to hell with them all I say.... let them blow each other up and as they say.... let god sort them out.

Added:

I also find it a tad hypocritical on how some long time members here seem to think it's perfectly funny to post cartoons that make fun / fear monger over an entire culture/religion, yet then I get shatted on when I poke a joke about the US Military and having a say in what one believes in.

Oh well.... just an observation.

[ridenrain]

Don't give me that relativist crap. Israel has spent a lot of time and money creating defenses against the constant barage so bitching that no one gets killed is meaningless.
Hezbulla and Hamas stated goals is not to win back land but to put an end to Israel.
How do you expect a country to rationally respond to that?

$1:

I also find it a tad hypocritical on how some long time members here seem to think it's perfectly funny to post cartoons that make fun / fear monger over an entire culture/religion, yet then I get shatted on when I poke a joke about the US Military and having a say in what one believes in.

Suicide bombers are not a race but it's pretty clear what religion they prefer.

[MAC1767]

things there will never change, only when one side makes the other GLOW in the dark, will things be different. maybe not better, but different.

[Praxius]

ridenrain ridenrain:

Don't give me that relativist crap. Israel has spent a lot of time and money creating defenses against the constant barage so bitching that no one gets killed is meaningless.

Speaking of crap, maybe one should look into the reasons why they had to set up such excessive defenses in the first place.

If they think their current and past tactics are helping their security, then they're more short sighted then I originally thought.

$1:

Hezbulla and Hamas stated goals is not to win back land but to put an end to Israel.

That depends on who's information you're reading.

This past conflict in Gaza as an example wasn't actually started by Hamas, but rather, they kept to the cease fire until Israel attacked them and a few of their guys were killed... then the rockets started flying again, then Israel cried to the global community and used it as an excuse to lay more waste. They killed more civilians then they did Hamas, all for a conflict they started.

Source?

Sure:

Who broke the Israel/Hamas ceasefire on November 5th 2008?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=85e_1230640278

$1:

Hamas has fired multiple rockets into Israel hours after six fighters died during Israel's first major incursion into the Gaza Strip since June's truce.

Israel created this attack after claiming Hamas was creating tunnels to kidnap their troops, which there was no such evidence.... and considering tunnels in urban warfare are considered a strong tool for defense (not offense) it should be a no brainer that their justification was an empty pile of crap.

Yet once again, the evil T'errists get the blame because it's easier.

$1:

How do you expect a country to rationally respond to that?

I haven't seen Israel respond to anything rationally in quite sometime, so your guess is as good as mine.

$1:

Suicide bombers are not a race but it's pretty clear what religion they prefer.

Yet you used it in response to a thread related to Palestinians against Israel. So am I to take it that all Palestinians are evil people who want to blow themselves up because they're Muslim?

There is a difference between Extremists and Moderates and not everybody is an extremist.

If we're going to continue with that mentality, then what's wrong with branding all of Christianity just as evil for all the things they have done over the centuries with the crusades, witch burnings, etc.? How about generalizing them all based on what the KKK did/do or even those nut bars in Wacco?

What about all the people who go around shooting up abortionists or bomb their clinics, threaten those who go to the clinics, etc?

Ah... but not all Christians are like that.... and neither are all Muslims like that.

In our Western media, we are conditioned to see what the extremists do and then get fearmongered into thinking all Muslims are like this.

Yet flip the coin and think for a minute how they view us in their news. When they see things like Wacco occur, when they see the KKK flourishing in the US, when you have the leader of a nation saying "You're either with us, or against us..... Holy Crusade this, and that....."

.... And then their allies fall in line and do what he wants.

Of course they're going to be fearmongering over us.

Either way, it's gotta stop, or it won't stop itself.

Fingering the blame on this group or that isn't going to fix the problem, as everybody involved is at fault for keeping it going for as long as it has.

People need to suck up their pride, look at the overall situation and actually think about what is best in the long run.

Blowing each other up and hoping eventually one will surrender or simply be wiped out won't solve anything.

[ridenrain]

I'm not going to bother with you on this. It takes a very brief google search to find countless calls from mad-mullas or Islamic officials calling for the distruction of Israel. They have a right to exist and a duty to defend their people.

[Praxius]

ridenrain ridenrain:

I'm not going to bother with you on this. It takes a very brief google search to find countless calls from mad-mullas or Islamic officials calling for the distruction of Israel. They have a right to exist and a duty to defend their people.

And it takes a brief goggle search to find everything I've been saying as well.

I can goggle and find all the stuff you explained above, and I can also goggle and find a long list of people saying the West Bank and Gaza should be nuked or wiped off the map to solve this little problem. Yet since it's Westerners saying it, it's somehow ok.

The issue is that everybody has the right to exist, even those you think are all terrorists, and one doesn't over rule the other in this case when it comes to existence.

Perhaps if Israel actually stopped creating situations that cause retaliation and actually use their brains, rather then always relying on military action to pump their chests all up big and tough, this whole conflict could start seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

But so long as people keep enabling Israel's actions and let them keep getting away with their equal/worse actions as those done to them, then it's never going to end until all hell really breaks loose over there and somebody is wiped off the map.

Oh well.... just my little ol opinion like everybody else's here. Whatever happens doesn't affect me in anyway.

[romanP]

ridenrain ridenrain:

The Palastinians can get bent. Their just as pathetic as the Tamil Tigers.

They kicked a soccer ball over a fence and got tear gas in return. You don't find anything wrong with that?

[ridenrain]

romanP romanP:

ridenrain ridenrain:

The Palastinians can get bent. Their just as pathetic as the Tamil Tigers.

They kicked a soccer ball over a fence and got tear gas in return. You don't find anything wrong with that?

Look at the situation. It's a media event with more media than activists. If it has been just a bunch of kids playing soccer, I imagine the soldiers would have acted differently and it never would have made the media.

Sorry. Pallywood has a long history of twisting media to suit it's purposes.