[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

And frankly no one needs billions of dollars.

In socialism no one needs hundreds of dollars if some shitstain commissariat decides to steal everything.

Stop worrying about what other people have or what they earn and start worrying about yourself. If you can't stand that someone else has a nice house then go do something to make sure you have one too.

The problem we are seeing with Capitalism is that the people with the nice houses have started to rig things so that they keep the nice houses and the rest of people can't have one. And then they put up gates and security patrols so that the others can't even get near them.

I can't afford my own politician to change laws I don't like, nor can I afford the lawyers needed to sue the media organizations I don't like out of existence.

But strong Socialism has a way of levelling the field, so everyone is equal, but everyone can still have nice things if they try.

[BartSimpson]

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

Once all the money is nicely hoarded by a few ultra rich, you WILL become at best a monarchy, at worst a dictatorship. I think we should ship all of you "free market rules all" people to one place and let your grand experiment play out the way it has, and always will, inevitably play out.

And you can move to Venezuela where the only rich people are named Chavez and Maduro.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

The problem we are seeing with Capitalism is that the people with the nice houses have started to rig things so that they keep the nice houses and the rest of people can't have one. And then they put up gates and security patrols so that the others can't even get near them.

I can't afford my own politician to change laws I don't like, nor can I afford the lawyers needed to sue the media organizations I don't like out of existence.

But strong Socialism has a way of levelling the field, so everyone is equal, but everyone can still have nice things if they try.

If you want socialism then feel free to make Canada into a socialist state.

Just don't expect the USA to go along with it is all I ask.

[Prof_Chomsky]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

And frankly no one needs billions of dollars.

In socialism no one needs hundreds of dollars if some shitstain commissariat decides to steal everything.

Stop worrying about what other people have or what they earn and start worrying about yourself. If you can't stand that someone else has a nice house then go do something to make sure you have one too.

The problem we are seeing with Capitalism is that the people with the nice houses have started to rig things so that they keep the nice houses and the rest of people can't have one. And then they put up gates and security patrols so that the others can't even get near them.

I can't afford my own politician to change laws I don't like, nor can I afford the lawyers needed to sue the media organizations I don't like out of existence.

But strong Socialism has a way of levelling the field, so everyone is equal, but everyone can still have nice things if they try.

This
Power corrupts, ultimately.

For Bart: Life is a game of Monopoly. Only when you finally get your chance to play and roll the dice, the game has already been going on for a few thousand years. Every space in the game has a hotel and is owned by 1 or 2 dynasties. Good luck.

[BartSimpson]

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

For Bart: Life is a game of Monopoly. Only when you finally get your chance to play and roll the dice, the game has already been going on for a few thousand years. Every space in the game has a hotel and is owned by 1 or 2 dynasties. Good luck.

When I got married I was making a whopping $900 a month and dealing with a disability that was service related and the friggin' VA refused to help with.

I didn't cry in my beer about how unfair life was. I worked my ass off, saved up my money, and worked my way up. In 1991 we bought a house in a pretty decent neighborhood.

In 2000 I paid my own way to go to Northwestern and got my Bachelor of Science in Computer Engineering specializing in Network Technologies.

That led to a career in IT and between the job, wise investments, and frugal and debt-free living we've managed to put together a sizable nest egg for retirement. I'm actually looking at retiring at 55 and that's next year.

See, while you think life is a game of chance where you throw the dice and if you lose it's not your fault I've approached life as a problem to be overcome.

How do you approach and overcome a problem?

Identify the problem.
Gather information and knowledge about the problem.
Develop criteria.
Generate possible solutions.
Analyze possible solutions.
Compare possible solutions.
Identify and commit to one solution with two secondary and fallback solutions.
Make and implement the decision.

If you apply order and method to your life you will find order and method in your life.

Chance is still a factor but it is now a factor you've planned for or at least anticipated.

In my experience the people who most desire socialism are also possessed of the fatalism that life is some sort of metaphysical roulette wheel that just 'happens' to them and the almost universal manifestation of this worldview is found in the lack of personal planning these people perform.

They're typically in debt.
They typically have vague career paths.
Their personal relationships evidence a lack of commitment and foresight.
They make bad choices and instead of owning those choices and learning from them they tend to blame typically unspecified people ('they') for the consequences of their bad choices.
They don't take care of or value the assets they have.


It never fails to amaze me how many people think I'm "rich" because I take good care of my ten year old car. It never registers with them that while they replace their car every two or three years I'm actually saving money by taking good care of what I already have.

Or we can talk about the four year old smartphone I have. It's just fine and there's no reason to replace it. Yet I'm often sneered at by smartasses who foolishly buy the latest toy from Apple or etc. just to be fashionable and not because they actually needed a new phone.

I've long found it laughable that Apple, the richest company in the world, is so popular with anti-corporate socialists.

It's always a laugh to see the lines of leftists lined up outside of the Apple stores so they can hand over their money to a capitalistic multinational corporation for the epitome in conspicuous consumerism.

But I'm the one who's wrong for not participating in lemming-like consumerism?

Oh, well. Bottom line here is the more you take control of your life the less you'll believe that some anonymous cabal of rich people care so much about you that they're conspiring to 'keep you down'.

And the less you'll like socialism.

[Prof_Chomsky]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

For Bart: Life is a game of Monopoly. Only when you finally get your chance to play and roll the dice, the game has already been going on for a few thousand years. Every space in the game has a hotel and is owned by 1 or 2 dynasties. Good luck.

When I got married I was making a whopping $900 a month and dealing with a disability that was service related and the friggin' VA refused to help with

You do understand that your generation was the beneficiary of the very best socialist policies the USA has ever had, and they've since been largely dismantled? You were born into the strongest, wealthiest middle class the planet has ever seen, and it was fueled by 95% tax rates on the top 1%.

And don't think you're the only one here who is successful. I think we know enough about most people on here to know they aren't poor by a long shot. I live in a very upper class community, and I'm at least 10 years younger than anyone else there, and we weren't given anything from our families unlike just about all the rest of them. We scrimped, worked, saved, were frugal, and did very well for ourselves. But, the only reason we were able to do that was I was given a student loan to attend University. My wife, who has 2 degrees and was an executive at the age of 27 when she was diagnosed with a crippling auto-immune disease has state covered healthcare (and private medical benefits from her job). Take away my ability to go to University, and her health care and we go from top 3% of earners in Canada, to homeless in the USA.

No one is saying you have restart the Monopoly game so it's "perfectly fair for everyone". Socialists just believe that unfettered capitalism makes it impossible for anyone to do anything on that already wholly owned monopoly board but be a slave to one of the existing big players. So they say, everyone needs to be given a legitimate chance to succeed. Education. Fair minimum wage. Benefits so a random illness doesn't ruin an entire family. Worker protection. Well funded and operational national infrastructure. These are ALL socialist doings.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Oh, well. Bottom line here is the more you take control of your life the less you'll believe that some anonymous cabal of rich people care so much about you that they're conspiring to 'keep you down'.

And the less you'll like socialism.

You misunderstand why all the socialist countries mentioned (save Venezuela) want. We don't want things, we all want the economy of scale that government brings to the things that enhance our life. Police, Fire protections; Military, but also healthcare, education, child care.

Take Denmark again, for example. They are constantly polled not only the happiest place to live, but the best country to live because of their socialism. They don't have to worry about student debt, because secondary education is free. That leaves a more educated work force, and with free child care, women are also free to pursue careers. That brings in more taxes, for more of the things that make life easier. People do what they want to do in life, and they aren't forced into grunt work they don't want and end up resenting.

Denmark has 4 Billionaires in the top 500 world wide, so it's not like it's impossible to get ahead there. Pretty good for a small country, population wise!

So socialism isn't about wealth, it's about everyone contributing so that everyone has a good standard of living. Socialism is a societal and political system, not an economic system. China is Communist politically, but fully Capitalist economically.

No one is trying to force you Bart, or the US into anything. We are just saying . . The water's warm . . come on in! You might like it.

[Prof_Chomsky]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Oh, well. Bottom line here is the more you take control of your life the less you'll believe that some anonymous cabal of rich people care so much about you that they're conspiring to 'keep you down'.

And the less you'll like socialism.

You misunderstand why all the socialist countries mentioned (save Venezuela) want. We don't want things, we all want the economy of scale that government brings to the things that enhance our life. Police, Fire protections; Military, but also healthcare, education, child care.

Take Denmark again, for example. They are constantly polled not only the happiest place to live, but the best country to live because of their socialism. They don't have to worry about student debt, because secondary education is free. That leaves a more educated work force, and with free child care, women are also free to pursue careers. That brings in more taxes, for more of the things that make life easier. People do what they want to do in life, and they aren't forced into grunt work they don't want and end up resenting.

Denmark has 4 Billionaires in the top 500 world wide, so it's not like it's impossible to get ahead there. Pretty good for a small country, population wise!

So socialism isn't about wealth, it's about everyone contributing so that everyone has a good standard of living. Socialism is a societal and political system, not an economic system. China is Communist politically, but fully Capitalist economically.

No one is trying to force you Bart, or the US into anything. We are just saying . . The water's warm . . come on in! You might like it.

That was a work of art.

[BartSimpson]

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

You do understand that your generation was the beneficiary of the very best socialist policies the USA has ever had, and they've since been largely dismantled? You were born into the strongest, wealthiest middle class the planet has ever seen, and it was fueled by 95% tax rates on the top 1%.

It was John F. Kennedy who dismantled your beloved 95% tax rates because they were causing a flight of capital, wealth, and productive people to offshore investments and tax havens.

I came of age during the Jimmy Carter Administration and under that fucker America's future was bleak and gray...just like every socialist country in the world.

If that's what you want for Canada then you can have it. Tax yourselves into penury if it pleases you.

Banish your 1% to the USA (we'll take them!) and then after you get rid of everyone who earns $1 more than you do you folks will be just as equal as Venezuela.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

You misunderstand why all the socialist countries mentioned (save Venezuela) want. We don't want things, we all want the economy of scale that government brings to the things that enhance our life. Police, Fire protections; Military, but also healthcare, education, child care.

You're confusing government with your parents.

You want someone to take care of you from cradle to grave.

And if that's what you want then

Just don't expect us to want the same thing and we'll get on just fine.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

You misunderstand why all the socialist countries mentioned (save Venezuela) want. We don't want things, we all want the economy of scale that government brings to the things that enhance our life. Police, Fire protections; Military, but also healthcare, education, child care.

You're confusing government with your parents.

You want someone to take care of you from cradle to grave.

Not really. We just demand the government (who works for us) not saddle us with crippling debt in order to go about our daily lives by using some of the money we earn to make life a little easier for everyone. And not steal too much of it in the mean time.

Much like you already have, with roads and clean water, and social security; but minus the crazy homeless people and people with 3 jobs who can't afford to feed themselves.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And if that's what you want then

Just don't expect us to want the same thing and we'll get on just fine.

I don't expect you will. I'm just trying to unwind some of the propaganda you've obviously been a victim of.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I'm just trying to unwind some of the propaganda you've obviously been a victim of.

If I'm a 'victim' then I can only hope to be victimized a heck of a lot more! Keep it coming! Torture me with more dividends, first-class trips to Maui, and put more numbers in my bank account!

Oh my God! It's awful! Please keep doing it!

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I'm just trying to unwind some of the propaganda you've obviously been a victim of.

If I'm a 'victim' then I can only hope to be victimized a heck of a lot more! Keep it coming! Torture me with more dividends, first-class trips to Maui, and put more numbers in my bank account!

Oh my God! It's awful! Please keep doing it!

I mean that you see Socialism as bad but only use a corrupt dictatorship and cleptocracy like Venezuela as your measurement, while ignoring the Socialist countries that exceed the US in every area of personal and public achievement that modern society has.

Except in the number of people who believe in Angels, and the rate of rising STDs, of course.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I mean that you see Socialism as bad but only use a corrupt dictatorship and cleptocracy like Venezuela as your measurement, while ignoring the Socialist countries that exceed the US in every area of personal and public achievement that modern society has.

Except in the number of people who believe in Angels, and the rate of rising STDs, of course.

It's so wonderful in Sweden that they're about to oust the party that's ruled the country for about a century and replace it with a party that quite frankly scares me.

Poland loved socialism so much that there's not even one socialist holding even one elected office anywhere in Poland these days.

Germany likes socialism so much that it looks like the AfD is going to take a majority in the next elections.

Romania loves socialism so much that in some parts of the country if you announce that you're a socialist the locals will kill you and the police will help.

France isn't long for socialism. Italy went fascist and I mean that not in the schoolyard epithet sense but in the literal sense.

China's back and forth between the socialist model and the Singapore model is about to fail and in a spectacular fashion.

Norway finances their welfare state with a vast national fund that is aggressively capitalist. That country is no more socialist than a trust-fund family like the Kennedy's.

Socialism sucks wealth and it stifles productivity. If you want it then you can have it.

Not for me. Not for America.

No thank you.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I mean that you see Socialism as bad but only use a corrupt dictatorship and cleptocracy like Venezuela as your measurement, while ignoring the Socialist countries that exceed the US in every area of personal and public achievement that modern society has.

Except in the number of people who believe in Angels, and the rate of rising STDs, of course.

It's so wonderful in Sweden that they're about to oust the party that's ruled the country for about a century and replace it with a party that quite frankly scares me.

Poland loved socialism so much that there's not even one socialist holding even one elected office anywhere in Poland these days.

Germany likes socialism so much that it looks like the AfD is going to take a majority in the next elections.

Romania loves socialism so much that in some parts of the country if you announce that you're a socialist the locals will kill you and the police will help.

France isn't long for socialism. Italy went fascist and I mean that not in the schoolyard epithet sense but in the literal sense.

And how many of them have school shootings? How many people go bankrupt because of outstanding student loans or health bills? Why do they all rank higher on overall happiness than the US?

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

China's back and forth between the socialist model and the Singapore model is about to fail and in a spectacular fashion.

Their space program will soon over take NASA. Their economy will soon be #1, because they grow their middle class, not the 1%.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Norway finances their welfare state with a vast national fund that is aggressively capitalist. That country is no more socialist than a trust-fund family like the Kennedy's.

Free education, free healthcare, free market, high in the OECD rankings. Not socialist at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisat ... Indicators

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Socialism sucks wealth and it stifles productivity. If you want it then you can have it.

[citation needed]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Not for me. Not for America.

No thank you.

That's fine. If you don't like success, no one will force you.

Just like what Jeff Daniels was talking about in the preview to "The Newsroom".