[Numure]

Don't forget to account for the fact that revenues have been increasing every year by at least 1-3 Billion. Reducing the Debt by 10 Billion, saves close to 1 Billion per year in intrest payments.

In my opinion, cutting taxes, repaying the debt and replacing our Military Equipement is easily done under the current economic context of Canada.

It is quite true though, that spending has increased substantially under the conservatives. I just hope it isnt a long term trend.

[Winnipegger]

I have a question:
Stéphane Dion promised to cut corporate tax from 28% to 19%, but the Conservatives just announced they are cutting corporate tax from the projected 20.5% for 2008 to 19.5%. That Conservative economic statement said the current general federal corporate income tax rate is 22.12%, but they had expected to reduce tax to 20.5% for next year, and to 18.5% for 2012. A note says the current 22.15% includes a 1.12% corporate surtax that will be eliminated in 2008, so the rate without surtax is 21.0%. The figures from Jim Flaherty don't match with those from Stéphan Dion.

[DerbyX]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

I have a question:
Stéphane Dion promised to cut corporate tax from 28% to 19%, but the Conservatives just announced they are cutting corporate tax from the projected 20.5% for 2008 to 19.5%. That Conservative economic statement said the current general federal corporate income tax rate is 22.12%, but they had expected to reduce tax to 20.5% for next year, and to 18.5% for 2012. A note says the current 22.15% includes a 1.12% corporate surtax that will be eliminated in 2008, so the rate without surtax is 21.0%. The figures from Jim Flaherty don't match with those from Stéphan Dion.

Thats because Dion said the previous Liberal gov't had reduced them from 28% to 19% and proposed deeper cuts. I typed Dion instead of "the Liberals". My bad. I was showing Hyperion that his assertion that the Liberals were somehow anti-capitalists was simply political hackery.

[HyperionTheEvil]

$1:

Time to expose your stupidity yet again.

You claim our economy is going up enough to:

a) Cut taxes (I'll assume you mean the exact amount of Harpers proposed cuts)
b) Buy all the new jets, helicopters, and warships we need.
c) Increase spending.
d) Pay down the debt. (since Harper is quoting a 10 billion payoff I'll use that figure)

You base this on what? You complete lack of knowledge about economics?

Our surplus this year was about 14 billion dollars. Of that Harper promised 10 billion towards debt repayment, a retroactive 0.5% tax income tax reduction (countering him raising it to that level) and a next year 1% GST rebate. Add to that the various corporate tax breaks and we get an estimated 60 billion tax relief or about 12 billion per year. An extra 2 billion/year to be put towards new purchases is a little slim considering Harper hasn't bought any of his promised purchases with the exception of the transport aircraft. Hell, he shelved the Liberal plan to buy new SAR aircraft and that alone was 3 billion. None of this includes the mounting cost in Afghanistan or the cost associated with increasing the #'s of military members. The cost of replacing the aging CF-18s alone will cost alot more then a couple of billion per year for the next 5 years.

None of that takes into account the spending inceases that are being demanded from all the other ministries and the provinces.

So my advising caution about promising too much seems perfectly reasonable but in your blind anti-Liberal jealousy you can't see that which is why you spouted the biggest of all Con fallacies, namely that the Libs were a "tax and spend" administartion.

I will expose your ignorance once again.

As Winnipeger posted:

-----Liberal----- | -------Conservative------
2004-05 2005-06 | 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09
$176.4B $175.2B | $189.0B $199.6B $206.8B

See which gov't is spending more?



Debt Reduction:
YEAR
1997 562,881
1998 559,922
1999 554,143
2000 539,885
2001 519,994
2002 511,946
2003 505,325
2004 496,180
2005 494,717
2006 481,499
2007 467,499

Note the largest drop coincided with the largest surplus under who? Yup, The Liberals.

Tax and Spend? I think not. The Chretien/Martin Liberals were the opposite of tax and spend. For that philosophy you can blame Trudeau & Mulroney.

In fact up till this year the entire surplus went to debt reduction. Is that right or wrong? Depends on your viewpoint but paying down the debt certainly wasn't a Con(or even CPC)-only affair.

That would be you being wrong yet again.

Quote:
As for your doom and gloom about the Canadian Economy suddenly taking the whole point making an economy stable is to provide a healthy enivroment for private business (I know a dirty word for many Liberals) to invest here, create jobs here and thereby provide an income for families. You cannot expect to keep taxes high forever and simply hope that companies will invest here because they like the view.


Doom and gloom? Try reading. I said it wasn't going up enough to support everything mentioned. That isn't saying we are heading for doom and gloom. far from it.

Now your second mistake (from the above quote) is crying that the Liberals support high taxes and are the enemy of free enterprise. On every other thread you brain-washed Cons are also calling them stooges of "big buisness". The old Ultra-centralist commitalists in action again eh?

In the pocket of bay street and big buisness while being commies and the enemy of capitalism.

I guess that Dion wanting to keep the GST were it is and propose (alongside income tax relief) corporate tax cuts from 28% to 19% kinds puts a crimp in that theory eh?

That would be you being wrong again.

Quote:
As far as you insinuation that Canada cannot afford militray hardware for the men and women who protect us , it would be the same to say that we cannot afford to fund our police forces, or provide body armour for the poilice to do thier jobs. In fact our economy is doing just fine now and in the past, and as a matter fact we can afford new equipment for our Armed forces since they not only protect us abroad but also at home.


Notice how I said new Jets, Helicopters, and Warships. Those big-ticket items are on an entirely different level of spending and will require a substantial financial commitment.

Quote:
Canadians have been doing the job of being over-taxed and it is now more than time that they recevied a reward for thier patience


I didn't object to tax rebates but mearly that you cannot do all the 4 things I mentioned at the same time without one of them suffering.

This post will be rather long , and yet ,I will go more deeply into your self-confusion and apparently short sighted version of Canada’s fiancés and your love of the liberal mindset that they never saw a tax they didn’t like (unless they promised to "Axe" a certain tax and then broke their word later on) that means more taxes, Dions pledge to reinstate the GST cuts that the Harper government has finally given to a Citizenship that deserves it.

And I might mention that the entire Liberal party has essentially removed their own spine over the last few weeks. And if this is so damn bad for Canada, then why didn’t Dion stand on his principles and make stand to bring the government down on this obviously critical issue????

Why? because the Dions' and the Liberals of this country are more interested in gaining time to um...rebuild the party, for the benefit of the country....right? Or the other version is that the Liberals know that in any general election they would be absolutely smashed and would be in opposition for years for the simple straightforward reason is that Canadians no longer respond to the fear mongering of the liberal party

So the Liberals are saying pretty much this:

"Taxes are CUT!!!!??!!! Oh Heavens! it must be the end times, the Four Horseman are just down the block!!! Cats and dogs are living together its Mass Hysteria!!!! At least according to the Gospel of the Liberal Party"

The final thing is that those billions left over. They belong to the Taxpayers of this Country. For years Canada has billions left over and somehow over all those years the Liberal Party was happy to keep collecting it even after it became an embarrassment. People laud Paul Martin for defeating the deficit; any damn fool can eliminate the 'red' by simply taking more money from taxpayers. The problem was that over the Chretien years all of these extra billions of dollars kept coming in and every time it came on the news that the latest fiscal year showed 10+ billion dollar surplus people often wondered when they looked at their paycheck every week when they were going to be cut some slack?

Well now they have. The conservative party realizes that the Government works for the people and not the other way around, Which means that some of the money earned by Canadians is coming back to them. And you know what? Even after these tax cuts we still have the cash to buy NEW jets and ships and tanks and whatever for the men and women who defend our country, and they should have the best since the actually put their lives on the line for all Canadians. Something which few if any Liberal party hacks could ever say.

And if you had any knowledge of purchasing process of the military then you would the process takes years. It can expedite in terms of off the shelf items. A good example is the transport aircraft you mentioned. The fact is that Canada has needed a heavy lift capacity, and a new Search and Rescue helicopter fleet, and a new Navy Helicopter fleet and new Arctic patrol ships and replacements for the CF-18 for years and years. Well back into the dark days of the Chretien regime when he cancelled the EH-101 program for the Navy claiming that the Navy didn’t need "Cadillac Helicopters".

The same Chretien government who was more than happy to let Jane Stewart simply lose a billion dollars while she was in charge of HRDC, the same Chretien government who funneled money to his own riding for fancy statues, the same Chretien government who used a secret slush fund during the Quebec referendum to funnel taxpayer dollars to liberal friendly ad-firms when in turn was kicked back to the liberal party.


You claim we can't do all of these things within the current budget, can we afford a new liberal leader who has no spine and liberal party who still believes that corruption is the order of the day? The Liberal party is simply not fit to govern and wasn’t fit to govern even when it was, as events and criminal investigations proved. We have a conservative party that is more in touch with average Canadians and what they want. They have the common sense that the Liberal party lacked before and still lacks today. They see that the revenues after expenditures show that Canadians are over paying in their taxes and they see that Canada as a country needs things that the Liberal party ignored for years. The reality as can be shown is that we are not in deficit spending, we are still so far in the black that we have the flexibility to. To simplu put it Canadians want thier money back, and now theyre beggning to get it. And we can imporve our national defence , and our infrastructure and pay the debt.


Again your claim is that we cant do it.

We'll the conservatives are and they're doing it well, a real world budget.

The reason that we are spending more , is because in your myopic rose tinted liberal glasses is that you fail to understand that when taxpayers have more to spend ultimately the government has more spend even though personal and general tax rates are lower. The very thing that in the face of simple Liberal Party Greed and love Tax never got and still doent get it. I suggest if you can pull your eyes away from whatever version of the Liberal Red Book you read Paul Kennedys Rise and Fall of the Great Powers. Canada has tken the best approach to its future, it is financiall prudent and well set for the future in terms of business, resources and hard working average Canadians who take responsibility for themselves and actually work every day (minus the usual suspects who think everything is someone elses fault and that they are always the victim)

Just fresh from the latest example of a bi-pedal invertabrate Dion after abstaining on the latest mini-bufget said he might raise the GST back to 7% (not that long since Chretien peomised to "Axe the Tax" and then lied about it)


Dion Flip Flops


If the Liberal party felt so strongly, and its robots across the land feel so strongly about how bad Harper and the conservatives are doing in Government. Here's the Challenge. Vote Down the government , let Canadians decide in a General election today.

Go on, let Canadians decide who is better fit to govern the Country, otherwise any criticism any Liberal spews out is nothing more a fart in the wind if they can't back up their words with thier convictions to make stand

They are simply unprincipled cowards if they dont

[DerbyX]

$1:

This post will be rather long , and yet ,I will go more deeply into your self-confusion and apparently short sighted version of Canada’s fiancés and your love of the liberal mindset that they never saw a tax they didn’t like (unless they promised to "Axe" a certain tax and then broke their word later on) that means more taxes, Dions pledge to reinstate the GST cuts that the Harper government has finally given to a Citizenship that deserves it.

Who exactly is our fiance? Who will marry us eh?

Another partisan hack job by the perrenial loser that is hyperion.

We never saw a tax we didn't like eh? The GST was a product of your party and Chretien did promise to axe it but replace it with revenue from other sources. In the end the provinces didn't like his solution so he kept the tax.

Too bad for you it was the Liberals who freed up all this capital from interest savings that spurred the surpluses on and on eh?

$1:

"Taxes are CUT!!!!??!!! Oh Heavens! it must be the end times, the Four Horseman are just down the block!!! Cats and dogs are living together its Mass Hysteria!!!! At least according to the Gospel of the Liberal Party"

Yet more lies eh? The Liberals have cut taxes, both personal and coporate and that is entirely what Dion supported. Wrong again as usual.

$1:

The final thing is that those billions left over. They belong to the Taxpayers of this Country. For years Canada has billions left over and somehow over all those years the Liberal Party was happy to keep collecting it even after it became an embarrassment. People laud Paul Martin for defeating the deficit; any damn fool can eliminate the 'red' by simply taking more money from taxpayers. The problem was that over the Chretien years all of these extra billions of dollars kept coming in and every time it came on the news that the latest fiscal year showed 10+ billion dollar surplus people often wondered when they looked at their paycheck every week when they were going to be cut some slack?

Where or where did those surplus dollars go I wonder? Could it be that I posted showing where they went? The Debt thats where asshat. Yes imagine that. A gov't spending responsibly. Every year they paid down the debt they saved the taxpayers hundreads of millions more. That snowballed. If they hadn't then the federal debt would be 100 billion more then it is now costing taxpayers about 6-7 billion more in interest.

They did it under the very tax system that Mulroney had and as revenues increased and the debt went down so did taxes or did you forget that Martin lowered income and corporate tax rates?

I guess you missed that when Harper dropped the GST by 1% he raised the income tax rate by 0.5% to pay for it as well as breaking a promise and taxing trust funds. He didn't "drop taxes" he just shifted them around.

BTW, they didn't eliminate the deficit and pay down the debt by taking more money from taxpayers just by more fiscally sound spending.

$1:

Well now they have. The conservative party realizes that the Government works for the people and not the other way around, Which means that some of the money earned by Canadians is coming back to them. And you know what? Even after these tax cuts we still have the cash to buy NEW jets and ships and tanks and whatever for the men and women who defend our country, and they should have the best since the actually put their lives on the line for all Canadians. Something which few if any Liberal party hacks could ever say.

The Liberals proposed tax cuts also and delivered them under Martin. Your assertion that they aren't is a bald faced lie. You rbelief that we can do all the previous 4 things is simply your opinion.

BTW, It was Martin who started the large military spending when the coin was rolling in, larger then Mulroney, trudeau, and Chretien.

Fail.

$1:

And if you had any knowledge of purchasing process of the military then you would the process takes years. It can expedite in terms of off the shelf items. A good example is the transport aircraft you mentioned. The fact is that Canada has needed a heavy lift capacity, and a new Search and Rescue helicopter fleet, and a new Navy Helicopter fleet and new Arctic patrol ships and replacements for the CF-18 for years and years. Well back into the dark days of the Chretien regime when he cancelled the EH-101 program for the Navy claiming that the Navy didn’t need "Cadillac Helicopters".

Yet you have such knowledge? I think not. Funny you should mention the SAR aircraft. Harper shelved the 1.3 billion dollar Liberal plan to purchase the aircraft citing larger priorities in Afghanistan. See how we don't have enough money to buy all the things we need? This is exactly what I am talking about. Take 1.3 billion from the surplus and purchase the aircraft.

Harper reneged on his military purchase promises such as the Ice breakers but Chretien promised to get rid of the helicopters from day one because we were broke.

Regardless, Harper may be buying stuff but so did the Libs. They bought the LAV-IIIs didn't they?

The fact is that we can get alot more equipment faster with less deep tax cuts.

Blaming Chretien when we were running a 20 billion deficit instead of a 14 billion surplus is just plain ignorance on your part.

The rest of your garbage is just more of the same.

You bitch about the Liberals being a tax and spend party. I proved they were anything but that.

They lowered tax and proposed tax cuts also, they just said there were better places then the GST.

You bitched about the lack of military equipment being purchased by them. Blame Mulroney.

Harper wasn't handed a 20 billion dollar deficit but a 10+ billion dollar surplus and yet he is cancelling purchases or putting them off for "financial reasons".

Your ignorance has been exposed.

[Winnipegger]

Thanks DerbyX, that explains a lot. I wanted to focus all tax cuts on personal income tax. Making the budget balence required freezing GST at 7%, freezing corporate income tax at the current level, and cancelling the Conservative proposed capital gains deferral. That would enable deep cuts to personal income tax. However, I don't like surtaxes. Eliminating the corporate surtax but freezing the general federal corporate income tax rate would leave it at 21%. Reducing to 19% is lower than I wanted, and poses a challenge to balance the books and continue with the personal income tax cuts I want. However, it isn't as bad as I thought.

Oh, HyperionTheEvil, if you can cool down from spewing insulting drivel, read what I just wrote. Liberals want to reduce personal income tax. Conservatives had promised to cut corporate taxes. They cut GST by 1% but paid for that by increasing personal income tax by 1/2%. Now they removed their increase to personal income tax, just putting it back to where it was. They will not reduce personal income tax any further. So the debate is whether corporations or working individuals deserve tax cuts.

::Edit:: I guess I should be more clear. I'm the one who wanted to establish a fixed repayment schedule for the entire federal debt, then wanted to abolish GST all together. However, most Liberal voters during the last election said they would rather get rid of income tax. When I say "deep cuts" to personal income tax, I mean completely abolishing federal personal income tax. Doing that with all the cuts to other taxes is getting harder to do.

[HyperionTheEvil]

DerbyX DerbyX:

$1:

This post will be rather long , and yet ,I will go more deeply into your self-confusion and apparently short sighted version of Canada’s fiancés and your love of the liberal mindset that they never saw a tax they didn’t like (unless they promised to "Axe" a certain tax and then broke their word later on) that means more taxes, Dions pledge to reinstate the GST cuts that the Harper government has finally given to a Citizenship that deserves it.

Who exactly is our fiance? Who will marry us eh?

Another partisan hack job by the perrenial loser that is hyperion.

We never saw a tax we didn't like eh? The GST was a product of your party and Chretien did promise to axe it but replace it with revenue from other sources. In the end the provinces didn't like his solution so he kept the tax.

Too bad for you it was the Liberals who freed up all this capital from interest savings that spurred the surpluses on and on eh?

$1:

"Taxes are CUT!!!!??!!! Oh Heavens! it must be the end times, the Four Horseman are just down the block!!! Cats and dogs are living together its Mass Hysteria!!!! At least according to the Gospel of the Liberal Party"

Yet more lies eh? The Liberals have cut taxes, both personal and coporate and that is entirely what Dion supported. Wrong again as usual.

$1:

The final thing is that those billions left over. They belong to the Taxpayers of this Country. For years Canada has billions left over and somehow over all those years the Liberal Party was happy to keep collecting it even after it became an embarrassment. People laud Paul Martin for defeating the deficit; any damn fool can eliminate the 'red' by simply taking more money from taxpayers. The problem was that over the Chretien years all of these extra billions of dollars kept coming in and every time it came on the news that the latest fiscal year showed 10+ billion dollar surplus people often wondered when they looked at their paycheck every week when they were going to be cut some slack?

Where or where did those surplus dollars go I wonder? Could it be that I posted showing where they went? The Debt thats where asshat. Yes imagine that. A gov't spending responsibly. Every year they paid down the debt they saved the taxpayers hundreads of millions more. That snowballed. If they hadn't then the federal debt would be 100 billion more then it is now costing taxpayers about 6-7 billion more in interest.

They did it under the very tax system that Mulroney had and as revenues increased and the debt went down so did taxes or did you forget that Martin lowered income and corporate tax rates?

I guess you missed that when Harper dropped the GST by 1% he raised the income tax rate by 0.5% to pay for it as well as breaking a promise and taxing trust funds. He didn't "drop taxes" he just shifted them around.

BTW, they didn't eliminate the deficit and pay down the debt by taking more money from taxpayers just by more fiscally sound spending.

$1:

Well now they have. The conservative party realizes that the Government works for the people and not the other way around, Which means that some of the money earned by Canadians is coming back to them. And you know what? Even after these tax cuts we still have the cash to buy NEW jets and ships and tanks and whatever for the men and women who defend our country, and they should have the best since the actually put their lives on the line for all Canadians. Something which few if any Liberal party hacks could ever say.

The Liberals proposed tax cuts also and delivered them under Martin. Your assertion that they aren't is a bald faced lie. You rbelief that we can do all the previous 4 things is simply your opinion.

BTW, It was Martin who started the large military spending when the coin was rolling in, larger then Mulroney, trudeau, and Chretien.

Fail.

$1:

And if you had any knowledge of purchasing process of the military then you would the process takes years. It can expedite in terms of off the shelf items. A good example is the transport aircraft you mentioned. The fact is that Canada has needed a heavy lift capacity, and a new Search and Rescue helicopter fleet, and a new Navy Helicopter fleet and new Arctic patrol ships and replacements for the CF-18 for years and years. Well back into the dark days of the Chretien regime when he cancelled the EH-101 program for the Navy claiming that the Navy didn’t need "Cadillac Helicopters".

Yet you have such knowledge? I think not. Funny you should mention the SAR aircraft. Harper shelved the 1.3 billion dollar Liberal plan to purchase the aircraft citing larger priorities in Afghanistan. See how we don't have enough money to buy all the things we need? This is exactly what I am talking about. Take 1.3 billion from the surplus and purchase the aircraft.

Harper reneged on his military purchase promises such as the Ice breakers but Chretien promised to get rid of the helicopters from day one because we were broke.

Regardless, Harper may be buying stuff but so did the Libs. They bought the LAV-IIIs didn't they?

The fact is that we can get alot more equipment faster with less deep tax cuts.

Blaming Chretien when we were running a 20 billion deficit instead of a 14 billion surplus is just plain ignorance on your part.

The rest of your garbage is just more of the same.

You bitch about the Liberals being a tax and spend party. I proved they were anything but that.

They lowered tax and proposed tax cuts also, they just said there were better places then the GST.

You bitched about the lack of military equipment being purchased by them. Blame Mulroney.

Harper wasn't handed a 20 billion dollar deficit but a 10+ billion dollar surplus and yet he is cancelling purchases or putting them off for "financial reasons".

Your ignorance has been exposed.

I'll put in terms that everyone can understand.

If the Liberals and the Liberal party feel so strongly about the situation, bring down the government. They believe they are in the right. The buy all means you and the Liberal Party should put thier money where thier mouth is and vote down the Govenrment.


Every time Dion abstain he, his Mp's and His party abstain in the House of Commons on a piece of legaslation they then later complain about, The lose even more credibility than they had. You have gone to extreme lengths t prove that the Conservatives have been bad, are bad, and will be bad for Canada.

If you mean what you say then you should be willing to have the Liberal Party put their principles to the test by having an election. You cannot avoid the reality that Dion is not a leader and the Liberal Party is still having internal wars about what to do

The Party who cant decide

Derby if your so sure about what you think is right, if your so sure that the Liberals can do better , Then by all means if your convictions should be the same as thiers and demanding the Liberal party defeat the Conservative Government. And if those conviction are more than just poltically skin deep then Liberals and the Liberal Party at the very next opportunity give a vote of no-confidence.

What i think will likely prevail is that Dion will become Mr Dithers II, he will waffle and continue to compromise himself, his party and Liberals in General. Either way, everyday, every week the conservatives look better and better. And i think thats why you refuse to address the issue of letting voters decide in and Election - driven by the supposed heart-felt 'convictions' of the Liberal Party and why the Liberal Party still doesnt get it

To be blunt, Liberals should make a stand for thier 'principles' and call for an election, or get over thier whining since there not willing to make stand

[ridenrain]

Fish or cut bait.
Who was that Liberal MP who left the party when the gay vote took place? As he said, "It's not what you say, Mr. martin. It's what you do"

[Zipperfish]

Well, I have to admit I wrong about Mr. Harper. In my opinion he's done a pretty good job as Prime Minister. I was dead-set against him, mostly because he would have sent Canadian soldiers to Iraq, an issue I'm passionate about and, well, passion does tend to blind. He's been pretty effective at moving his agenda forward, and generally has cut a pretty moderate course.

I'll still be a Liberal supporter at heart, though there is a chance I'll vote Conservative in the next election if our local candidate isn't a wingnut or too closely affiliated to a church/mosque/synagogue/temple, etc.

I was hoping for more from Dion. As a minister he had a reputation for getting things done, and for getting his way at the cabinet table. However, this hasn't translated into a stelllar record as a leader. I was dead-set against Ignatieff (again, the Iraq thing) but maybe he would have done a better job.

Either way, the hard-core Conservatives should get thier kicks in now. The Liberal party will not be disorganized and feckless indefinitely. They could be just one big scandal away from being back.

[DerbyX]

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

Liberals .....

As usual you have simply refrained from answering for the fact that you are lying about the Liberals with your political hackery.

Your whole anti-Liberal crying fit started because of a discussion I was having with Tricks about the dangers of combining tax cuts alongside Debt reduction, military purchases, and increased spending (both military & non-military).

You went apeshit knowing that I'm a Liberal when I could just as easily been posting the same message if I were a Conservative. Hell, their are more then enough military members here who would post that the tax savings to Canadians is less important then the quick purchase and delivery of all that needed equipment you yourself were bitching about and if you had bothered to read my post unpartisanly you may have noticed that I didn't object to any single proposal but mealry said it was unwise to attempt all four.

I don't oppose big ticket military spending on needed equipment. I didn't say "fuck the military, I want my taxes back."

I don't oppose debt reduction. I didn't say "fuck the next generation of tax payers, I want my taxes back."

I don't oppose increased spending (military, healthcare, etc). I didn't say "fuck the services, I want my taxes back".

I don't oppose tax cuts either. I didn't say "fuck to all 3, I want my taxes back".

What I did say was that trying to do all four things togeather likely means that one of them will suffer and/or send us back into deficit spending.

I also said and Winnipegger echoes it that if tax cuts are to be done then there are better ways to do it and the GST reduction isn't one of them.

In addition to all the reasons already posted, the GST gets everybody including those who don't file tax returns or can easily lie about it because they work in an industry that they can do this.

The GST is harder to circumvent and impossible to do it entirely. Whats more, we get GST revenue from the 4 million or so visitors to our country annually.

Notice the difference between deciding which tax cuts are better for both Canadians and the budget rather then as you say opposing them entirely.

Notice how your bollocks attack that I am somehow an anti-capitalist, anti-military, pro-tax pundit is fucking wrong beyond belief.

Notice how your entire ad hominem argument amounted to blind political partisanry.

All this because you freaked out that in my opinion our economy isn't strong enough to all the things I posted about and even if yours is that it is you could have simply posted that without a fuckload of BS trailing it.

Get it now?

[HyperionTheEvil]

DerbyX DerbyX:

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

Liberals .....

As usual you have simply refrained from answering for the fact that you are lying about the Liberals with your political hackery.

Your whole anti-Liberal crying fit started because of a discussion I was having with Tricks about the dangers of combining tax cuts alongside Debt reduction, military purchases, and increased spending (both military & non-military).

You went apeshit knowing that I'm a Liberal when I could just as easily been posting the same message if I were a Conservative. Hell, their are more then enough military members here who would post that the tax savings to Canadians is less important then the quick purchase and delivery of all that needed equipment you yourself were bitching about and if you had bothered to read my post unpartisanly you may have noticed that I didn't object to any single proposal but mealry said it was unwise to attempt all four.

I don't oppose big ticket military spending on needed equipment. I didn't say "fuck the military, I want my taxes back."

I don't oppose debt reduction. I didn't say "fuck the next generation of tax payers, I want my taxes back."

I don't oppose increased spending (military, healthcare, etc). I didn't say "fuck the services, I want my taxes back".

I don't oppose tax cuts either. I didn't say "fuck to all 3, I want my taxes back".

What I did say was that trying to do all four things togeather likely means that one of them will suffer and/or send us back into deficit spending.

I also said and Winnipegger echoes it that if tax cuts are to be done then there are better ways to do it and the GST reduction isn't one of them.

In addition to all the reasons already posted, the GST gets everybody including those who don't file tax returns or can easily lie about it because they work in an industry that they can do this.

The GST is harder to circumvent and impossible to do it entirely. Whats more, we get GST revenue from the 4 million or so visitors to our country annually.

Notice the difference between deciding which tax cuts are better for both Canadians and the budget rather then as you say opposing them entirely.

Notice how your bollocks attack that I am somehow an anti-capitalist, anti-military, pro-tax pundit is fucking wrong beyond belief.

Notice how your entire ad hominem argument amounted to blind political partisanry.

All this because you freaked out that in my opinion our economy isn't strong enough to all the things I posted about and even if yours is that it is you could have simply posted that without a fuckload of BS trailing it.

Get it now?

You keep talking about the differences in Taxes and im saying if the Liberals have anything they stand for then they should defeat the government with a non-confidence vote

For the sake of the Liberals who claim to 'get it' when the actually don’t here is the crux of the matter

$1:

What I think will likely prevail is that Dion will become Mr. Dithers II, he will waffle and continue to compromise himself, his party and Liberals in General. Either way, everyday, every week the conservatives look better and better. And I think that’s why you refuse to address the issue of letting voters decide in and Election - driven by the supposed heart-felt 'convictions' of the Liberal Party and why the Liberal Party still doesn’t get it

To be blunt, Liberals should make a stand for their 'principles' and call for an election, or get over their whining since they’re not willing to make stand

You go on and on (and on ....) about how bad the Conservatives are. If you claim that Liberals 'get it' then prove it and stand by their principles by voting down the Government. This includes not only the economy but also everything that makes up the Conservative Party and the Liberal Party. Even though the Conservative Party is a minority government they are willing to stand by the principles, Liberals lost sight of their principles (or more likely never had any) and continue to waffle, wiggle and deflect the real issue, which they can only bring up in a half-ass way


Who is better suited to govern the Country, Liberals or Conservatives. If Liberals and the Liberal Party (And that includes you DX) honestly believe they are the proper party to govern Canada then by all means encourage your MP's to vote them down. You should say the Liberal Party should vote down the Conservative Party and say so here on CKA.


Make your stand Liberals (you too Derby). If you have principles instead of whining about the Conservatives then go to Canadians, force an election and let them decide.


Otherwise you have no principles and no courage either

[DerbyX]

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

DerbyX DerbyX:

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

Liberals .....

As usual you have simply refrained from answering for the fact that you are lying about the Liberals with your political hackery.

Your whole anti-Liberal crying fit started because of a discussion I was having with Tricks about the dangers of combining tax cuts alongside Debt reduction, military purchases, and increased spending (both military & non-military).

You went apeshit knowing that I'm a Liberal when I could just as easily been posting the same message if I were a Conservative. Hell, their are more then enough military members here who would post that the tax savings to Canadians is less important then the quick purchase and delivery of all that needed equipment you yourself were bitching about and if you had bothered to read my post unpartisanly you may have noticed that I didn't object to any single proposal but mealry said it was unwise to attempt all four.

I don't oppose big ticket military spending on needed equipment. I didn't say "fuck the military, I want my taxes back."

I don't oppose debt reduction. I didn't say "fuck the next generation of tax payers, I want my taxes back."

I don't oppose increased spending (military, healthcare, etc). I didn't say "fuck the services, I want my taxes back".

I don't oppose tax cuts either. I didn't say "fuck to all 3, I want my taxes back".

What I did say was that trying to do all four things togeather likely means that one of them will suffer and/or send us back into deficit spending.

I also said and Winnipegger echoes it that if tax cuts are to be done then there are better ways to do it and the GST reduction isn't one of them.

In addition to all the reasons already posted, the GST gets everybody including those who don't file tax returns or can easily lie about it because they work in an industry that they can do this.

The GST is harder to circumvent and impossible to do it entirely. Whats more, we get GST revenue from the 4 million or so visitors to our country annually.

Notice the difference between deciding which tax cuts are better for both Canadians and the budget rather then as you say opposing them entirely.

Notice how your bollocks attack that I am somehow an anti-capitalist, anti-military, pro-tax pundit is fucking wrong beyond belief.

Notice how your entire ad hominem argument amounted to blind political partisanry.

All this because you freaked out that in my opinion our economy isn't strong enough to all the things I posted about and even if yours is that it is you could have simply posted that without a fuckload of BS trailing it.

Get it now?

You keep talking about the differences in Taxes and im saying if the Liberals have anything they stand for then they should defeat the government with a non-confidence vote

For the sake of the Liberals who claim to 'get it' when the actually don’t here is the crux of the matter

$1:

What I think will likely prevail is that Dion will become Mr. Dithers II, he will waffle and continue to compromise himself, his party and Liberals in General. Either way, everyday, every week the conservatives look better and better. And I think that’s why you refuse to address the issue of letting voters decide in and Election - driven by the supposed heart-felt 'convictions' of the Liberal Party and why the Liberal Party still doesn’t get it

To be blunt, Liberals should make a stand for their 'principles' and call for an election, or get over their whining since they’re not willing to make stand

You go on and on (and on ....) about how bad the Conservatives are. If you claim that Liberals 'get it' then prove it and stand by their principles by voting down the Government. This includes not only the economy but also everything that makes up the Conservative Party and the Liberal Party. Even though the Conservative Party is a minority government they are willing to stand by the principles, Liberals lost sight of their principles (or more likely never had any) and continue to waffle, wiggle and deflect the real issue, which they can only bring up in a half-ass way


Who is better suited to govern the Country, Liberals or Conservatives. If Liberals and the Liberal Party (And that includes you DX) honestly believe they are the proper party to govern Canada then by all means encourage your MP's to vote them down. You should say the Liberal Party should vote down the Conservative Party here on CKA.


Make your stand Liberals (you too Derby). If you have principles instead of whining about the Conservatives then go to Canadians, force and election and let them decide.


Otherwise you have no principles and no courage either

More of the same.

You don't even bother reading what I post before answering do you?

[HyperionTheEvil]

$1:

More of the same.

You don't even bother reading what I post before answering do you?

I did read it and i was right all along, delfection and evasion


Liberals if they have a pair should stand up for their version of Canada and give a non-confidence vote.

Everyday they dont, everytime a liberal party mided person avoids the issue by complaning istead of acting they highlight the difference between a party of yesterday - theirs. And the party of Today the conservatives who act for the benefit of all Canadians


Every time, Derby you imply that the Conservatives are all wrong , when somone reasonably asks what Liberals dso stand for and when they will stand up for it, they get the usual run around. The Liberals look worse and worse.


Like i said , Liberals no priciples and no courage

[Numure]

Dion is a prick. I told everyone as such when I still around and posting in the Liberal Party Forums. I just hope he keeps this up. The longer the Liberals can stay out of Office the better Canada will be.

Harper is doing an excellent job, so is his Finance Minister. Cuts of this size are well appreciated. I just hope it won't affect further Debt repayment, at that, won't put us back in a deficit in the long run.

I don't know, I guess I still have Mulroney and his big spending Conservative governement in the back of my head. The one that left us with an extra 200 Billion in debt... I just hope they don't make the same mistakes.

[DerbyX]

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

$1:

More of the same.

You don't even bother reading what I post before answering do you?

I did read it and i was right all along, delfection and evasion


Liberals if they have a pair should stand up for their version of Canada and give a non-confidence vote.

Everyday they dont, everytime a liberal party mided person avoids the issue by complaning istead of acting they highlight the difference between a party of yesterday - theirs. And the party of Today the conservatives who act for the benefit of all Canadians


Every time, Derby you imply that the Conservatives are all wrong , when somone reasonably asks what Liberals dso stand for and when they will stand up for it, they get the usual run around. The Liberals look worse and worse.


Like i said , Liberals no priciples and no courage

Deflection and evasion?

You answered nothing about your BS rhetoric nor did you even address the fact that my discussion with Tricks wasn't as much about Lib Vs CPC as my belief that Harper was attempting to much at once.

You turned it to political hackery and ran away when I exposed your ignorance concerning your moronic belief about the Liberals.

As for giving you the run around, that would be you.

The majority of Canadians don't want another expensive election so soon and since the CPC won't honestly admit they are trying to force one instead trying to "blame others" for forcing one, I see entirely why the Liberals won't give them what they want.

The Liberals need time to rebuild so why chance letting the CPC trick Canadians into giving them a majority.