CKA Forums
Login 
canadian forums
bottom
 
 
Canadian Forums

Author Topic Options
Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 33492
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:48 am
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
raydan raydan:
We have separation of church and state, why don't we have separation of church and education? Get rid of it. That's what Sunday school is for.


Why not allow for vouchers and let parents choose the schools they want their kids to go to?


We have that. BC funds private schools for each pupil. Thing is, if they take govt money they should have to follow govt rules.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Montreal Canadiens
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 35270
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:53 am
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
raydan raydan:
We have separation of church and state, why don't we have separation of church and education? Get rid of it. That's what Sunday school is for.


Why not allow for vouchers and let parents choose the schools they want their kids to go to?

Way simpler my way. :D


If I had to go to Sunday school, everybody should have to go. :evil:


Offline
Forum Super Elite
Forum Super Elite


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 2271
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:56 am
 


Frankly if any school takes public money they are an institution of the state and the state must do it's best to remain secular to keep it separate from church.

That being said discrimination against students not being tolerated has very little to do with religion and everything to do with making sure EVERY student has a right to feel comfortable to a certain degree at school.

It's beyond silly to suggest that we should allow some special exception because one group that discriminates is doing it in the name of some larger institution. That's both special pleading and ad populum.


Offline
CKA Moderator
CKA Moderator
 Vancouver Canucks


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 65472
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:08 pm
 


andyt andyt:
We have that. BC funds private schools for each pupil. Thing is, if they take govt money they should have to follow govt rules.


Can't argue that. [B-o]


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Vancouver Canucks
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 25516
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:16 pm
 


andyt andyt:
If the parents are forcing them, they probably wouldn't allow them to join such a club either.

Parents don't have to know. :lol:


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Vancouver Canucks
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 25516
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:17 pm
 


andyt andyt:
Tricks Tricks:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
I'm curious, is anyone going to force the muslims to abide by the same rules in their schools?

They don't receive public funding. But they should be made to nonetheless.


Disagree. You don't take public money, you can do what you want. Essentially you're a private club, and like a private club you can discriminate.

It's violating the freedom of assembly as far as I'm concerned. And tell Golf clubs they can discriminate. :lol:


Last edited by Tricks on Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Vancouver Canucks
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 21665
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:18 pm
 


andyt andyt:
If the parents are forcing them, they probably wouldn't allow them to join such a club either.


Which is one of th reasons that I'd select the option of giving high school kids the legal right to overrule their parents, within limits, on that count.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Vancouver Canucks
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 25516
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:19 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Tricks Tricks:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:

"Nanny state" .... "babysitting" ... :wink:

How is people getting MORE freedom a nanny state?


Benn was being clever and you're being too serious. [B-o]

Kids who are in a vulnerable position to be picked on being told they can't receive support from other students officially kind of pisses me off. Toews is a scumbag.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Vancouver Canucks
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 25516
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:19 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
raydan raydan:
We have separation of church and state, why don't we have separation of church and education? Get rid of it. That's what Sunday school is for.


Why not allow for vouchers and let parents choose the schools they want their kids to go to?

My Dad said the exact same thing two months ago, but on private vs public schools... :lol:


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Vancouver Canucks
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 21665
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:20 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Tricks Tricks:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:

"Nanny state" .... "babysitting" ... :wink:

How is people getting MORE freedom a nanny state?


Benn was being clever and you're being too serious. [B-o]


If Benn--who, like many right-wingers, seems to spend his life in a permanent state of outrage--hadn't completely missed the point, I might agree with you. Unfortunately, his history indicates that he has moderate to severe reading comprehension issues.





PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:43 pm
 


andyt andyt:
Tricks Tricks:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
I'm curious, is anyone going to force the muslims to abide by the same rules in their schools?

They don't receive public funding. But they should be made to nonetheless.


Disagree. You don't take public money, you can do what you want. Essentially you're a private club, and like a private club you can discriminate.


Home schooling is an option too. You're never going to force the gay-straight alliance at one of those. Its a different problem that you guys are discussing than the one where christian schools dictate rules for public schools, after they chose to be a public school.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 33492
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:13 pm
 


Tricks Tricks:
andyt andyt:
Tricks Tricks:
They don't receive public funding. But they should be made to nonetheless.


Disagree. You don't take public money, you can do what you want. Essentially you're a private club, and like a private club you can discriminate.

It's violating the freedom of assembly as far as I'm concerned. And tell Golf clubs they can discriminate. :lol:


I don't have to, they already know they can.


Offline
CKA Super Elite
CKA Super Elite
 Montreal Canadiens


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 7835
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:55 pm
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
I applied the argument originally to all religions, with the example of the Biblical reference instructing followers of ther God of Abraham to kill practicing male homosexuals. As far as I know, you can walk into pretty much any church in the country, pluck the bible from the back of the pew seat in front of you, and look up that verse.

I suppose there may be some church's that have removed the offending passage, but I'm not aware of any. As it is, it kind of stands out like a sore thumb, inasfar as gay issues are concerned, and it's pretty hard to ignore.

Personally, I don't think they should have to [edit: remove any offending passages]. But I do think they have to take responsibility for it being there.


Fair enough.

$1:
Again, if the children there had the freedom to simply leave the school, you'd have a stronger argument. But there is no doubt that there are gay students in those schools who would rather be elsewhere, but do not have the legal authority to make those decisions themselves. My solution would be to give students of a certain age the legal rights to pick their schools, even if it goes the will of the parents, or something like that.

You could certainly externd the argument beyond the Christian context. In Britain they have trouble with a small percentage of Muslim schools that are radicalizing their students with jihadi ideas. The argument of the school is the same as yours--the state should not interfere with religious doctrine. In this case, it's not much of an overstatement to say that the religious doctrine is dedicated to the destruction of the secular state. What then?


I'd agree with you that students should have a bit more freedom to pick their high schools and education facilities. That being said, the situation is what it is at the moment. Although I can agree that students should have some say in their secondary education institution choice, it still begs the question if the state should have the ability to legislate the doctrine of a religious institution? In my opinion, it shouldn't, but, of course, I can see the validity of those saying that if you accept some public funding, they should abide by secular legislation.

For example, if, say, this law stated that parochial schools must provide birth control to students, even though (in Catholic schools at least), birth control is extremely frowned upon, at the consequence of losing state funding if they do not, should the parochial school be willing to compromise their beliefs?

Thankfully, the situation about parochial schools in North America have not reached such controversy, and I would believe that there are some non-Christian parochial schools operating in Canada and the United States. Such schools, at least from what I know of them in my North American experience, are still obligated to teach a curriculum, and I believe such curriculum must abide by secular standards. The issue of radicalization can be a dangerous one, but unless they're breaking any laws, I don't see what can be done. Unless such jihadi schools are teaching kids how to kill Jews and Christians, I don't know of a valid option to suppress such views.
Edit: Overlooked a part about Great Britain.





PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:16 pm
 


Jesus would not discriminate against gays: pastor
$1:
But Rev. Mary Best said a sign posted outside the Atlantic-Garden City United Church is intended to calm the waters and not stir the pot.
It’s also in response to criticism against the Bill 18 from some Christian groups, which claim the proposed legislation infringes on their constitutional right of religious freedom by stipulating Manitoba schools recognize gay and lesbians high school students.
Best said that kind of thinking doesn’t ring with the words of Jesus Christ.
"In the United Church of Canada we feel that all people are created in God’s image," she said Thursday. "We also believe that Jesus would not discriminate."


[popcorn]

You're either with us, or you're with the bullies.

You can Toews the Toewsers


Offline
Forum Super Elite
Forum Super Elite


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 2271
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:11 pm
 


Funny last time I checked Jesus was pretty discriminatory.

I mean if you don't worship the dude he's such a huge bully he will throw your ass into a fire of eternal torture.

No Jesus isn't a discriminatory asshole at all.


Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 126 posts ]  Previous  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests




 
     
All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © Canadaka.net. Powered by © phpBB.