[Thanos]

Good for you, but when you advocate people in uniform not obeying their duly elected and constitutionally authorized Commander in Chief simply because you don't like him you're advocating treason. You can spin it any way but the legal system in your country, and practically every other country in the world too, says otherwise. Believe what you want to your heart's content but you simply do not have the right to obey only the laws that you like, to disregard or openly violate the rest, or to interpret a founding constitution to your own whims.

[Winnipegger]

CBC: Ukraine crisis: Obama rules out military action

$1:

Obama stopped short of calling it an invasion, and said that a military action from the West is not on the table.

[Winnipegger]

https://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=uk&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmediarnbo.org%2F%3Fp%3D4240

$1:

SITUATION IN EAST UKRAINE

Control over settlements:
Date of release

Human resources of terrorists:
Location of terrorists Loss of terrorists

Position of Ukrainian military
Existing
Places clashes with terrorists
Directions strikes Ukrainian troops
Terrorist attack

Border
Land border under the control of Ukraine
Place of armed clashes between Border and terrorists
Territory, under the control of terrorists as of 18 June

In the Azov Sea, in order to prevent the infiltration of subversive-intelligence groups on the coast of Donetsk region and security raids of ports of Mariupol and Berdyansk, continues duty of seven naval tactical groups

Location of civil airports

Location of military units of the Russian Federation

Boeing 777 crash site July 17, 2014

[saturn_656]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

CBC: Ukraine crisis: Obama rules out military action

$1:

Obama stopped short of calling it an invasion, and said that a military action from the West is not on the table.

Ukraine Ukraine:

Thanks Obama!

[Delwin]

I am really sick of the pussy footing the Europeans are doing. I knew from the time this crisis broke out that the kind of measures Europe was willing to take wouldn't do a thing. It should be blatantly clear to everyone that Putin will continue to push until he meets real resistance.

Europe is at a pivotal moment. There are only 2 measures that I can realistically envision working. Military intervention, or outright trade embargo. Short of that, Putin will not back down. His approval rating is at 90%. It is fucking insane, are these people brainwashed ? Or is there something I'm missing ?

This issue is not going to go away. Where is the UN ? What the hell is it there for ? Can someone put a motion forward to dissolve this toothless farce ?

It's fucking Chamberlain all over again X 100.

[Jabberwalker]

I'm less inclined to criticize another countries' responses when we are totally incapable of any response of our own, save a ban on the importation of Moskovskaya Vodka.

Our nuts were cut off by accountants.

[Delwin]

I disagree, we are on track to lose 500 million in pork exports alone as a result of the Russian ban on our products. We also have stake in the arctic which we have put at risk as a result of our stance. Canada has been a leader on this issue offering supplies and support, and have been very firm, which is more than can be said of the Europeans.

[Jabberwalker]

You are right. We have made an important and world changing stand on pork bellies. Those spineless Europeans should make a similar stand and ban the export of fine paper products and nylon stockings.

[BartSimpson]

Thanos Thanos:

Good for you, but when you advocate people in uniform not obeying their duly elected and constitutionally authorized Commander in Chief simply because you don't like him you're advocating treason. You can spin it any way but the legal system in your country, and practically every other country in the world too, says otherwise. Believe what you want to your heart's content but you simply do not have the right to obey only the laws that you like, to disregard or openly violate the rest, or to interpret a founding constitution to your own whims.

Allow me to familiarize you with the US Military Oath of Enlistment:

$1:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

That little qualification that I bolded and underlined is the difference between the US military and that of Russia, Belarus, China, and etc.

So long as the orders are lawful they should be obeyed.

That does not preclude someone from questioning an order nor does it preclude someone from refusing an order that they consider to be illegal.

Wise officers don't mind when orders are questioned. But I will say that if an order is refused on the grounds that it is illegal (or just plain stupid) then whoever does that had best be prepared to explain it in a courts martial proceeding.

[Delwin]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

You are right. We have made an important and world changing stand on pork bellies. Those spineless Europeans should make a similar stand and ban the export of fine paper products and nylon stockings.

Well don't look to me to back up Harper's foreign policy, but suffice it to say the sanctions which have been imposed are not being limited by Canadian interests but by the Europeans. Of course you know that already.

[Zipperfish]

Delwin Delwin:

Russia has about 3 months to secure the road from Russia to Crimea. The idea of course is an alternate port for gas exports to Europe since using Ukrainian pipelines is not going to be an option.

I am not sure what Putin's endgame is, I anticipate even if he is able to annex Eastern Ukraine, he will continue to poke western Ukraine but the gas is obviously a major goal before winter.

Putin wants one thing: "MORE!"

[Jabberwalker]

Quote:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."



So, what are you gonna do when the President breaks the Constitution? Which comes first ... loyalty to your Republic or to your Commander in Chief?

[Zipperfish]

Delwin Delwin:

I am really sick of the pussy footing the Europeans are doing. I knew from the time this crisis broke out that the kind of measures Europe was willing to take wouldn't do a thing. It should be blatantly clear to everyone that Putin will continue to push until he meets real resistance.

Europe is at a pivotal moment. There are only 2 measures that I can realistically envision working. Military intervention, or outright trade embargo. Short of that, Putin will not back down. His approval rating is at 90%. It is fucking insane, are these people brainwashed ? Or is there something I'm missing ?

This issue is not going to go away. Where is the UN ? What the hell is it there for ? Can someone put a motion forward to dissolve this toothless farce ?

It's fucking Chamberlain all over again X 100.

What are they going to do? Putin moved in too quickly and now he's there. There's no getting rid of him. It's what Hitler did with his blitzkrieg's, it's what the USSR did time and time again in Poland, Afghansitan, etc.

NATO will have to contain him. Now in my opinion, with a new Iron Curtain through teh Ukraine instead of Germany. And they will need to contain him from the Baltic States and--most importantly for us--from the Arctic.

Don't think Obama has the cajones for the job though.

Hopefully it doesn't take 45 years for the place to implode this time.

Harper talks a big game but has done nothing for the military except for sic Julian Fantino on the veterans.

[Delwin]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Delwin Delwin:

I am really sick of the pussy footing the Europeans are doing. I knew from the time this crisis broke out that the kind of measures Europe was willing to take wouldn't do a thing. It should be blatantly clear to everyone that Putin will continue to push until he meets real resistance.

Europe is at a pivotal moment. There are only 2 measures that I can realistically envision working. Military intervention, or outright trade embargo. Short of that, Putin will not back down. His approval rating is at 90%. It is fucking insane, are these people brainwashed ? Or is there something I'm missing ?

This issue is not going to go away. Where is the UN ? What the hell is it there for ? Can someone put a motion forward to dissolve this toothless farce ?

It's fucking Chamberlain all over again X 100.

What are they going to do? Putin moved in too quickly and now he's there. There's no getting rid of him. It's what Hitler did with his blitzkrieg's, it's what the USSR did time and time again in Poland, Afghansitan, etc.

NATO will have to contain him. Now in my opinion, with a new Iron Curtain through teh Ukraine instead of Germany. And they will need to contain him from the Baltic States and--most importantly for us--from the Arctic.

Don't think Obama has the cajones for the job though.

Hopefully it doesn't take 45 years for the place to implode this time.

Harper talks a big game but has done nothing for the military except for sic Julian Fantino on the veterans.

I agree with you as it applies to Crimea. Crimea was swept up quickly and internally was too Pro-Russia to hold.

That is a cut-your-losses type of scenario, however, what is happening right now is transition. As far as my understanding goes, until the recent invasion, Ukraine held the upper hand and this is a real game changer. If Russia's regular is allowed to operate inside Ukraine, Ukraine will continue to give up territory.

If it is as you say, and this is the time for a new "Iron Curtain" then the sooner the west chooses to act, the further back this curtain will be pushed.

The goal for the west right now need to be salvaging as much of Ukraine as possible. The longer NATO waits, the less of Ukraine will be left.

Is it your contention that NATO should abandon Ukraine and shore up bordering states? I see Putin opening new fronts in Moldova and possibly our Arctic to widen the fog and allow himself more mobility.

[andyt]

Putin moved fast in the Crimea. In Ukraine tho, there was plenty of time to put in sanctions with real bite, but Europe wouldn't go for it, always threatening to do so but not acting. This is the result. Looks like Poroshenko had his Munich moment, because just a couple of days ago we were getting assurances that something was being worked out in the meetings he had with Putin.

I wonder of Putin plans to take his land route to Crimea, abandon the rebels to the north, and dare the west to act.