[Scape]

bootlegga bootlegga:

I don't know what the solution is, but something needs to get done, because gridlock doesn't help heal to wounds the indigenous have after centuries of horrible treatment and backstabbing from us (nevermind all the other issues Canada has).

bootlegga bootlegga:

I think I understand where she is coming from, but would echo Llama in saying that she probably could do more as an MP than she will as a private citizen (although as a Dipper her party will almost never form government), and I wish she had stayed in Ottawa to fight for everything that needs fighting for.

How, when we can't even honestly discuss our past to begin with? We get told JUST MOVE ON whenever it is even HINTED at. I do NOT see a dialogue in good faith here.

[llama66]

I'm all for having that discussion, but tearing down monuments because they are offensive, is also not having a discussion. Provide context to these people. Don't tear shit down. Sure, Sir John A. McDonald was the father of Confederation, but he encouraged all these horrible programs....

In Ottawa, kill the Indian Act. The Act is designed to ensure the Indigenous People fail. Make Indigenous land special municipalities, and devolve power to the local tribal council. Empower them to raise their own taxes and set their own laws. Give them preferential access to infrastructure for x years.

Provincially, mandate how History is taught from K-10.

It's finding balance, not wildly overreacting.

[Scape]

Concur, but it took ground penetrating radar finding the bodies and not the reconciliation report to have the government do anything but virtue signal and even then the only things they have done is the least offensive recommendations of that report that was done years ago now.

What else would you suggest to light a fire under the ass of the powers that be?

[llama66]

That's the tough part. I'm against defacing and tearing down statues, I'm for providing context to these people's lives.

I doubt there will ever be a full reconciliation, because the real people in power don't want to lose power.

[Thanos]

I think we're long overdue for a good solid period of iconoclasm. We shouldn't be making icons of ourselves to hold up to undue esteem that no person, living or dead, really deserves. You put up a statue of someone and by default you're saying that particular person is a hero, a practical saint, and cannot/could not have been capable of badness. It actually ends up distorting reality in a way that the veneration of the person in question becomes so intense that every single one of their acts cannot be seen as anything but good, no matter who on the other end of the stick ended up paying the price in blood, death, and misery. This is how what we presume are good people in a good land end up committing deeds that can't be anything but evil - all that has to happen is to convince them that they're so innately good that everything they do is unquestioningly good as well, and the moral inversion is effectively complete. And then the suffering and dying for someone else inevitably happens next.

And those who did end up losing have every right to look at those statues/murals/named buildings/etc as an insult to them directly. Can't blame them for feeling that way, or when they get pissed off to the point that the icon becomes a flashpoint for public disturbance up to and including violent riots. "You destroyed our world, and for the most part did it deliberately. And for this we're supposed to love you?". It's effectively a form of delusional mass sadism by that point from the bully to the victim.

[CDN_PATRIOT]

Scape Scape:

People like this are the reason why there are so many problems right now. As soon as he mentioned the word 'privilege', he became an instant hack/bleeding heart/virtue signaller.

Canada is not perfect, but is actually fine aside from having a corrupt traitor with no morals as PM for the moment.

-J.

[CDN_PATRIOT]

llama66 llama66:

In Ottawa, kill the Indian Act. The Act is designed to ensure the Indigenous People fail.

Yes.

I've been saying this for years. Kill the Act, and dissolve all the reservations. Let the First Nations be part of Canadian society like everyone else. I used to have a Cree friend years ago that did just that. He and his family left the reserve, integrated (while maintaining their heritage), and flourished.

llama66 llama66:

Make Indigenous land special municipalities, and devolve power to the local tribal council. Empower them to raise their own taxes and set their own laws.

Hard no.

That would only increase division between us and them, and cause more friction then we would know what to do with. Also, many of the Chiefs have proven to be just as corrupt and unreliable as any normal politician in this country.

They can't even run their reserves properly at this time, with several Chiefs over the years having found to be squandering the federal money on themselves while they're own tribe suffers immensely. Chiefs need to have less power, not more. Trust is earned, not given blindly.

-J.

[Scape]

CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:

Canada is not perfect, but is actually fine aside from having a corrupt traitor with no morals as PM for the moment.

-J.

Genocide is not 'fine' in my books and your infatuation with Trudeau above all else is foolhardy.

[JaredMilne]

My belated thoughts:

-Having a security system is necessary. What Qaqqaq was getting at, I think, was the way guards might be quicker to jump to conclusions about her, give her the stink-eye and otherwise subtly insult her for not being a white guy. What made it go from annoying to infuriating was how it combines with all the other issues Native people have to deal with-missing and murdered women, botched investigations of their murders, boil water advisories, bureaucratic micromanagement of Native reserves, Native rates of incarceration and child foster care being so much higher than the rates for other parts of the population, shit like that.

I remember the news articles about that nutbar who went to Rideau Hall armed to the teeth looking for Trudeau. People were writing in the comments sections that he needed serious help, and hoped that he got it. How many people would say that if he were Native? Or would they have just said he should be locked up and the key thrown away?

-Renaming and statue removal sounds good on paper, but some Native thinkers are skeptical about whether it'll actually achieve what its advocates say it will. Here in St. Albert, opinion's divided even among residential school survivors about getting rid of Vital Grandin's name. He and other Oblate priests like Albert Lacombe were also involved in developing the Franco-Albertan community and a lot of the Ukrainian immigration to the Prairies. How do we remember all that, and the Oblates' roles in it? That's as much a part of their legacies as is their parts in the residential schools. Otherwise, we risk going too far the other way as Zipperfish alluded to, replacing the facetious "Canada the Good" with an equally facetious "Canada the Bad", which doesn't get us any further ahead. That's why I prefer the solution of "keep the statue/name in place, but bring it down to eye level and add new context about their entire legacies, both admirable and shitty."

-As for the claim that we should just scrap the Indian Act, make the reserves municipalities and that Native people should just be plain Canadians, what the hell do you think the residential schools were for? The whole point of the reserve system and the schools was to provide sites where Indigenous people could be "civilized" before being assimilated into mainstream society. The Indian Act was the legislated framework, and the reserves could be gradually whittled away until there was nothing left of any distinct Indigenous land or communities.

Here's the thing from the Native POV on the Indian Act, as far as I've seen. Most Native people hate the Indian Act as much as any non-Indigenous person, but it's still an implicit recognition that they're distinct peoples in Canada. They want it scrapped, but only once that distinct status, and their rights to handle their own affairs and lands, are secure. Scrapping it now and turning the reserves into plain municipalities like Edmonton or Toronto would just complete the original goal of assimilation. Harold Cardinal wrote all this 50 years ago in The Unjust Society and unfortunately it's just as true today.

[CDN_PATRIOT]

JaredMilne JaredMilne:

-As for the claim that we should just scrap the Indian Act, make the reserves municipalities and that Native people should just be plain Canadians, what the hell do you think the residential schools were for?

None of us that are for the abolition of the Indian Act said anything of the sort in terms of destroying their identities whatsoever. If anything, getting rid of the reservations and letting them choose their own paths instead of living in squalid, abhorrent conditions sometimes under crooked Chiefs would be a huge improvement.

As I mentioned before, a friend I used to have years ago that was Cree left the reservation with his family, and they all flourished. They got great jobs, a house, a car, and more important than that - respect. If anything, he was down on other First Nations for just sitting around and blaming others rather than going off and making names for themselves. He and his family still respected their traditions and beliefs, but were also happy to feel truly Canadian and a part of our country.

One of the reason we became friends at the time was because he didn't care I was white nor did he hold that against me, and I didn't care he was Cree and I didn't hold it against him. He was also one of the reasons I took more interest in First Nations at that time, leading me to a museum that showcased the Huron-Wendat people as well.

If everyone put aside their goddamn hate the way we did and just learned off each other and shared some laughs, it would go a long way to repairing relations and finally being on the right track. Instead, we get virtue signallers on both sides too willing to blame everyone but themselves and hurl insults.

JaredMilne JaredMilne:

Most Native people hate the Indian Act as much as any non-Indigenous person, but it's still an implicit recognition that they're distinct peoples in Canada. They want it scrapped, but only once that distinct status, and their rights to handle their own affairs and lands, are secure.

Can't have it both ways, sorry.

-J.

[Zipperfish]

Out west, I don't hear a lot of complaining about the Indian Act. The focus of the First Nations here is working their way towards treaties, as much of BC is unceded land. All the talk is around traditional territories, Indigenous title and appropriate apportioning of power between Canada and the First Nations, not reserves and the Indian Act imposed system of governance.

$1:

They can't even run their reserves properly at this time, with several Chiefs over the years having found to be squandering the federal money on themselves while they're own tribe suffers immensely. Chiefs need to have less power, not more. Trust is earned, not given blindly.

And yet you are on here often accusing your own chief, Justin Trudeau, of the same?

[llama66]

$1:

-As for the claim that we should just scrap the Indian Act, make the reserves municipalities and that Native people should just be plain Canadians, what the hell do you think the residential schools were for? The whole point of the reserve system and the schools was to provide sites where Indigenous people could be "civilized" before being assimilated into mainstream society. The Indian Act was the legislated framework, and the reserves could be gradually whittled away until there was nothing left of any distinct Indigenous land or communities.

At no time did I suggest or imply make them plain citizens, I suggested they get rid of the act that South Africa based it's Apartheid policy on and give power to the local bands, quite the opposite of the conclusion you've jumped to. I'm not saying to take away their lands, I was spit balling a way they can still receive federal funding, so they can have clean drinking water other utilities.