[EyeBrock]

andyt andyt:

Actually the Frank Paul case was VPD, and it's not the only one. But you're right that the RCMP thinks they're above the law, and their whole structure supports that. In Dziekanski's case, to me the most worry some aspect was the lying and collusion of he officer's superiors. The officers just made a mistake and should be disciplined for that, but their superiors lied and told them to lie and should be fired.

The thin-blue-line stuff went out around here a few years ago. Toronto still play at it but this closing ranks thing is so 1970's.

The best way to deal with fuck-ups is admit them, deal with them and move on. The officers who cover up for mis-deeds are a dying breed.

[Benn]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

andyt andyt:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Just curious, but why aren't some of the posters here more trusting of the police?

Did you follow the Dziekanski story at all? How about the Ian Bush case? (Tell me how a cop manages to shoot somebody in the back of the head while that person is supposedly on top of him and strangling him?) How about the Frank Paul case - very similar to this one. The list goes on.

Sure these cops have to deal with pukey drunks every day. But 13 hours and throwing up 27 times, with no medical attention? Even if he was only drunk, we've had lots of people die from inhaling their own puke - say Bon Scott. So what policies and procedures do the cops have in place that a drunk in their custody doesn't die this way?

And there is a common thread on the instances you have quoted. RCMP.

They need to get with the program.

Based on the current state of their recruiting process over the last few years in their rush to hire more recruits than they can handle and the their own commissioner (who is a civilian and came in to improve things like communication between the top and bottom) is grossly misquoting recruitment statistics in the Edmonton media, I highly doubt much will change in the next number of years.

I respect that Eyebrock agrees there needs to be proper oversight and officers I know do as well. However there are a lot out there that turn hostile to the idea with the best argument being, Only cops and investigate cops because no one knows the job like a cop." I can see the argument but its weak on a number of points, namely that they are public servants like any other public servant and it is the public that should decide the standards for policing, therefore non cops can and should investigate cops in major incidents, like the mentioned SIU in Ontario does.

I think the last time the RCMP was under this much fire over a period of time and questions of trust and confidence came up the government ended up giving of their mandate to civilians to do better, CSIS.

[EyeBrock]

Good post Benn. Well thought out.

[BartSimpson]

I had asked my question because it seems there is a bit of schizophrenia at work on this site.

See, when the topic is about the abuses of the police authorities then there's charges of how incompetent and ill-trained they are.

But when the subject is gun control it seems that many of the same people who will condemn the police in a topic like this one will turn around and prattle on endlessly about how the police are so much loftier and better than common citizens.

Which is it?

[EyeBrock]

Those Canadians are just a bit fucked Bart, but their chicks are very hot.

[BartSimpson]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Those Canadians are just a bit fucked Bart, but their chicks are very hot.

+1

[wildrosegirl]

andyt andyt:

Smacle Smacle:

"But of course if the sue, you and I just foot the bill"

We foot the bill for everything our government does and doesn't do and I mean more than paying the bill. Their failures are our failures and their successes are our successes. We own them, vote, write letters, be involved, but please do your homework.

(Not aimed at anyone.. just saying)

Comments like Wildrose's and Bart are why we don't get change in the RCMP. Too many people don't care or make excuses for them no matter what. But even if we were all for reforming the RCMP, govt agencies will always pay their lawsuits with our money, there's never really a risk for them personally, the way there is with private enterprise.

You do their job. I'm not saying they're perfect, but I don't think it's fair to judge an entire force on a few bad apples. The majority of them DO care and chose their profession because they want to make a difference. A positive one.

You're like those people who bash the military while sitting in your cozy Lazy Boy recliner in your free country.

Walk a mile in their shoes (either of them) and then sit here with your nose in the air.

[Smacle]

wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:

You do their job. I'm not saying they're perfect, but I don't think it's fair to judge an entire force on a few bad apples. The majority of them DO care and chose their profession because they want to make a difference. A positive one.

You're like those people who bash the military while sitting in your cozy Lazy Boy recliner in your free country.

Walk a mile in their shoes (either of them) and then sit here with your nose in the air.

I'm in Afghanistan right now.. I work with Cops and even they get disgusted about stories like this.

[wildrosegirl]

Smacle Smacle:

wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:

You do their job. I'm not saying they're perfect, but I don't think it's fair to judge an entire force on a few bad apples. The majority of them DO care and chose their profession because they want to make a difference. A positive one.

You're like those people who bash the military while sitting in your cozy Lazy Boy recliner in your free country.

Walk a mile in their shoes (either of them) and then sit here with your nose in the air.

I'm in Afghanistan right now.. I work with Cops and even they get disgusted about stories like this.

Of course they do. Just as honest teachers, priests, coaches, doctors, etc., are disgusted with the colleagues in their profession that tarnish their image. And rightfully so.

[snuggles61]

I don't want to come across as being insensitive,I really do feel for Mr Silverfox but what I want to know is why his family is so supportive all of a sudden.And where were they while Mr Silverfox had this drinking problem?

[Public_Domain]

[andyt]

wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:

You do their job. I'm not saying they're perfect, but I don't think it's fair to judge an entire force on a few bad apples. The majority of them DO care and chose their profession because they want to make a difference. A positive one.

You're like those people who bash the military while sitting in your cozy Lazy Boy recliner in your free country.

Walk a mile in their shoes (either of them) and then sit here with your nose in the air.

There are people who bash the cops no matter what they do. Then there are people who support the cops no matter what they do. I think a more intelligent approach is to judge each case and what it means. Dziekanski, Bush and Paul cases all showed that there is a systemic problem, it's not just a few bad apples. The cops, especially the RCMP will lie to cover up any problems, rather than dealing with the issue. At least these cops admitted they acted badly, but what procedures have been put in place to make sure it doesn't happen again?

In Vancouver, when a cop shoots somebody who is advancing on them with two knives, we have the usual crowd calling it murder and demanding that the cops take him down with non-lethal force. Bullshit. I want the cops to shoot anybody that's attacking somebody with a knife. But, to show the callousness they showed in this case, or in the Paul case (dumping him on the street in the rain while he's unconscious) is just disgusting. And the Bush case just makes my head explode - that does sound like murder to me.

[uwish]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Andy, all the RCMP have to do is follow Ontario's lead on civilian oversight of police. We have the SIU, OIPRD, Police Service's Boards as well as internal investigation.

Having robust civilian oversight is in everybodies best interest. Police should be held accountable for this stuff.

well said