[ridenrain]

Time to shake you're little fists and stamp you're little feet because those bad old Americans are violating our sovereignty again.

A U.S. nuclear submarine cruised through the Arctic Ocean last month -- probably passing through Canadian territorial waters -- but the federal government is refusing to say whether it gave permission for the voyage.

However, experts say it is highly unlikely Canada was even notified of the USS Charlotte's northern tour, which included a Nov. 10 stop at the North Pole, because it has no way of tracking what goes on beneath the Arctic ice.

And that could threaten Canada's claim to hundreds of thousands of square kilometres of the North, including the Northwest Passage route across the Arctic, said Michael Byers, who holds the Canada research chair in global politics and international law at the University of British Columbia.

"This is very important -- it's crucial," he said. "Any unauthorized passage could have a serious effect on our claim."
Prof. Byers said potentially lucrative oil and gas resources off the Queen Elizabeth Islands could slip out of Canadian control if foreign navies are operating in the Arctic without our permission. "The fact of the matter is that we've spent nothing on Arctic sovereignty over the past 20 years."

Link

So we could loose control of our arctic propertys because the Liberals have been ignoring defense, relying on the Americans, and now choose to bad mouth them for political reasons.
Smart move.

[PluggyRug]

lily lily:

And good ol' Stevie whould do what exactly?

I think the question should have been (in different governmental circumstances)

"Well done Stevie you are a Wonder, America rattled a saber and you snapped it clean in two."
"Whats next????"

[ridenrain]

Considering Harpers being labled Bush Light, he's just give the secret hand shake and it's all knudge, knudge, wink, wink.

No. This problem has taken years to develop and it's going to take years to fix. Buying crappy used subs that suck up precious funding is definately not helping though.

[IcedCap]

ridenrain ridenrain:

So we could loose control of our arctic propertys because the Liberals have been ignoring defense, relying on the Americans, and now choose to bad mouth them for political reasons.
Smart move.

yes shameful Liberal neglect but you might at least try and direct a teeny weeny bit of anger at the US Navy as well

[ridenrain]

I trust the US navy to look after it's own best interests, just as the Spanish, and everybody elses fishing fleets. If Canada is going to claim a 200 mile limit, it's not going to be protected by the graces of god but by our people. We trust our government to look after national defence and this looks like it counts as a let down.

Lilly: There is no quick bandaid to this. We've heard of this for years. Term after term, the military has been put at the end of the line and this is what happens. This is the effects of the rust out.
The gear fails and spemds more time being fixed than on line. The skilled mechanics who keep it all running retire or they go to better paying work outside of the forces. We can't just hire new troops either because the same thing has happened to the trainers, teachers and NCO's.
The fix should have started at least 5 years ago.

[PluggyRug]

lily lily:

No time like the present.

What are Harper's plans re: Arctic sovereignty?

At least the conservative plan to boost military spending by $5 billion is a step in the direction of common sense.

All we have seen in the last 12 years is an insidious downsizing of the Canadian military.

[PluggyRug]

lily lily:

That's it? That's Harper's plan?

Has the guy actually said anything at all about sovereignty in the Arctic?

No Lilly I said "it's a step in the direction of common sense"

Which is a little better than none stepping.

[BartSimpson]

Here's how the story should've read:

$1:

(Reuters) Halifax - Nova Scotia - Canada
Bob Meyers reporting

US Navy and Pentagon officials expressed embarrassment as elements of the Canadian Arctic Fleet escorted the USS Charlotte into Halifax harbor today. The USS Charlotte had been transiting what the Canadian Forces termed, 'a restricted passage', without the permission of the Canadian government when the submarine was interdicted by Canadian anti-submarine forces who were on exercises in the area.
Reports that the American nuclear submarine was depth-charged are so far unconfirmed but a Canadian Naval source, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that the depth charges were used after the submarine refused to surface and identify itself.
As the Charlotte was escorted into Halifax Canadian officers could be seen on the conning tower and it is assumed that they may have boarded and taken command of the submarine during the incident.
Canadian Forces official channels report that a board of inquiry will be convened next week to review the incident and determine the disposition of the US submarine and her officers and crew.
Reaction in the US to the incident is so far muted with embarassment being the most often cited emotion by Americans interviewed by this reporter. Several US Senators have called for an investigation into the incident while the White House has so far declined to comment on the matter.

But that's not how it went because:

1. There is no Canadian Arctic Fleet.

2. Canada has almost no means to interdict a US nuclear attack sub.

3. The US Navy knows all about items #1 and #2.

[ziggy]

lily lily:

That's it? That's Harper's plan?

Has the guy actually said anything at all about sovereignty in the Arctic?

It was a letter to an American newspaper from Harper but I'll be damned if I can find it again.

[torian]

why is it when you point out flaws in the liberal platform, liberals always turn to you and say...

"What has so and so done?"

Maybe it is because they want to avoid looking at the abysmal liberal record, in this case, re: defense.

Years of cuts in defense and police (RCMP) has left our defense, well, defenseless.

These are cuts that Martin had first hand association with as finance minister.

Martin keeps talking about how he will protect Canada. Captain Martin aside, he'll need some sort of defense to do that, or else all he is doing is saying words.

His record says more than any empty promise ever could.

[PluggyRug]

lily lily:

torian torian:

why is it when you point out flaws in the liberal platform, liberals always turn to you and say...

"What has so and so done?"

I can't speak for the rest of the liberals, but if I'm going to vote for someone, I expect them to tell me what they plan to do differently, rather than simply criticize the way things are being done.

Offer a viable alternative, and quit complaining.

How is it possible to offer a different option when.... there is no option in the first place to provide a different option too.

The present governments actions for the Canadian forces................................................................
........................................................................
........................................................................
........................................................................
.........................................................................
.........................................................................
...........................?



Someone please fill in the blank.

[PluggyRug]

whoops I forgot hard returns

[Ruserious]

ziggy ziggy:

lily lily:

That's it? That's Harper's plan?

Has the guy actually said anything at all about sovereignty in the Arctic?

It was a letter to an American newspaper from Harper but I'll be damned if I can find it again.

So what you're saying is that either it's hidden or you can't tell us exactly if or what Harper's plan would be.



Why is it that the cons are quick to criticize but when pressed about what their golden boy's plan is, can't answer the question.

[Ruserious]

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

whoops I forgot hard returns

There's this icon which looks like this...



Why don't you try using it instead.

[PluggyRug]

Ruserious Ruserious:

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

whoops I forgot hard returns

There's this icon which looks like this...



Why don't you try using it instead.

Because some of you need to take a longer look