[Rev_Blair]

It doesn't matter who the defector was, Twila. What does matter is that all these claims have been refuted time and again and that they'd been refuted before the US invaded Iraq. That mean that Bush lied to Congress. Lying to Congress is an impeachable offense.

[polemarch1]

Iraqi Daily: Saddam Ordered Training of Al-Qa'ida Members

[Rev_Blair]

Given that the best security agencies in the world have tried to make that connection and failed, and the fact that the US has been been caught playing propaganda games at home and abroad, I think I wait for something from a more official source than that one, Pole.

[Richard]

Do you people really think that nothing will be found in Iraq? Putin himself said"If it were me I would find something" the message was very clear.

[Rev_Blair]

They've been unable or unwilling to manufacture such a "find" so far. I wouldn't be surprised to see something just before the next US election though...I also wouldn't be surprised to that something be found to be fraudulent shortly after.

[blubs]

I can see Bush ''manufacturing '' such a find Rev, But don't you think he would be jeoprodising his political career? Mind you I guess he could find a scapegoat.

[blubs]

I can see Bush ''manufacturing '' such a find Rev, But don't you think he would be jeoprodising his political career? Mind you I guess he could find a scapegoat.

[Rev_Blair]

He's already started an illegal war by lying to the American people...no matter what he finds he can't make those fraudulent Niger papers or the fact that he pretended they were real when everybody told him they were false, go away.

The thing is that even if he does "find" something it will closely scrutinised. He screwed the UN, he screwed several members of NATO. Who is going to verify a false find for him, England. Tony Blair is in so much trouble that he was having heart palpitations yesterday and nobody else there is likely to take such a chance again. Since the US has been caught making questionable claims before, most of the world is going to have some pretty tough questions to ask if they make another claim.

He's also pissed off the CIA...the boys who traditionally plant the the false evidence, and a lot of people in the Pentagon...the boys who help to cover things up. That leaves him without a lot of professional help. I don't doubt that he will try to plant the evidence, I just doubt that he will be successful.

[blubs]

Rev you are quite right. I should really delve into this a little deeper rather than just look on the surface so to speak. I had totaly forgot about the Niger papers. And tony Blair completly slipped my mind. Maybe you can enlighten me about the CIA. How did Bush piss them off? I must have missed that sure would like you to fill me in. Thanks

[blubs]

Rev you are quite right. I should really delve into this a little deeper rather than just look on the surface so to speak. I had totaly forgot about the Niger papers. And tony Blair completly slipped my mind. Maybe you can enlighten me about the CIA. How did Bush piss them off? I must have missed that sure would like you to fill me in. Thanks

[Twila]

$1:

I had totaly forgot about the Niger papers. And tony Blair completly slipped my mind

You and thousands of others. It is nearly impossible to keep in mind all the bits and pieces of this scandal. Let alone all the bits and pieces that have led up to it. Or to know all the nuances of all the players. And if you could keep all these things up front in your mind you'd go insane.

1 of the most important rules when dealing with people is to treat them as if they were at least as smart as yourself. I think that Bush has proven that he believes the world to be at less intelligent then him. Ronnie did the same thing. Seems that 2 terms in office proved that he was right, the public was less intelligent and less informed.

Thank god for the internet, the american public can't be as dumb as they were during reagans term. I hope.

[Rev_Blair]

$1:

Maybe you can enlighten me about the CIA. How did Bush piss them off? I must have missed that sure would like you to fill me in. Thanks

It goes right back to those Niger papers, Blubs. A senior diplomat named Wilson was sent to Niger to investigate when the papers first surfaced. He told the CIA, FBI and people at the White House that the documents were not only forgeries, but laughably poor ones. George and his buddies went on using the papers as "proof," then when they were called on it said nobody told them. Wilson came forward and said that he had told them.

This is where things get ugly. Wilson's wife was a CIA agent working on finding weapons of mass destruction. It isn't clear whether she had recommended her husband or not, but somebody in the White House leaked her occupation to a right-wing reporter named Novak. Novak printed it. Six other reporters either had the same information leaked to them or were encouraged, once the leak happened, to play the story up.

None of them are naming sources, saying only that it was a "senior White House official," and that is their right under freedom of the press laws. Whoever leaked the information broke laws though...it is illegal to reveal the name of a CIA agent working under cover.

Best guess for the leak? Carl Rove, the man in charge of getting Bush elected and now re-elected. He's played dirty tricks like this before. Did Bush know? He's been doing his best to NOT have this thing investigated. It's led to some severe animosity.

Not that there wasn't animosity before...ever since 9-11 Bush and his pals have been blaming the various intelligence agencies for everything. Even before 9-11 intelligence people were walking away from senior gigs because the Bush White House wouldn't listen to them. This Wilson thing is the final straw...a big heavy straw that could see somebody doing hard time if they can positively identify the leaker.

As for the American people smartening up, Twila...don't worry it will happen eventually. Few now dispute that Reagan and Bush I were up to their asses in Iran Contra. Even rabid Reaganites just look embarrassed and try to change the subject when you bring it up. They got off scot-free, but people know what they did. Also keep in mind that Nixon won a landslide just before he got run out of office.

Bush will be seen for what he is eventually. Hopefully it happens next fall, but the US press still isn't pushing him hard enough. People are getting really tired of Iraq and of the economy sucking at home though. They are equating both with Bush more and more, and rightfully so.

[ABSOLUT_SS]

Bush, huh Rev? Clinton too? What about Carter? Nixon, Johnson, Ford? Canada good, America bad, sounds pretty simplistic Rev. Idealistic assholes are the first to rat-out to their new masters, and the new ones after that. I'd love to share a cell with you Rev, after the first night, having missed my dear wife for too long-a-time, I'd be single, except for that rotting banana-peel in the corner, stinking up the joint. Drooling Ronnie? You need a slap in the mouth for that one, ya bastard!

[Rev_Blair]

Give it your absolutely best shot, SS. Guys like you are always quick to physical violence...your like trained attack dogs owned by cowardly old men like Droolin' Ronnie and the Shrub.

You want to know about other presidents? Take a look, my friend. The US has been in trouble for a long time...since the end of WWII, really. Droolin' Ronnie and Shrub are just the worst of a bad lot.

You want to know about Canada? Ask some questions. Better yet, go look for yourself. Pay particular attention to the shit that went on during the FLQ Crisis and the dirty tricks that Mulroney played when he was in office. Read up on Paul Marin a bit...now there's a real bastard.

The thing is that Canada isn't stomping all over the world killing people for money. The US is. Their foreign policy is based on feeding American Corporations. Which corporations get fed the most depends more and more on campaign contributions.

I don't believe the American people want their government to act the way they do. I sincerely doubt that most realise the impact of their actions on the rest of the world. Most Americans are neither brutal nor stupid.

[electricbuford]

[quote="Rev_Blair"]. The US has been in trouble for a long time...since the end of WWII, really. Droolin' Ronnie and Shrub are just the worst of a bad lot.

The thing is that Canada isn't stomping all over the world killing people for money. The US is. Their foreign policy is based on feeding American Corporations.

I don't believe the American people want their government to act the way they do. I sincerely doubt that most realise the impact of their actions on the rest of the world. Most Americans are neither brutal nor stupid

Yep. - that aboot sums it up Fuck Bush I &II,Reagan,ASSCroft, Rush " I need some pills "Limbaugh, Joe Lieberman,Dumsfeld,Cunnilingus Rice,Cheney,Wolfowitz,Kissinger,Nixon,Joe Mcarthy,Anne Coulter,Arnold Swollen pecker,and ANY and all democrats who try to act like a Republican.They - along with Osama , Sadam , and all the other Franken - fuckers we've helped to create and fund over the years can kiss my black ass !