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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 4:15 pm
 


By SARMAD JALAL, Associated Press Writer

MOSUL, Iraq - Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s sons Odai and Qusai died in a blaze of gunfire and rockets Tuesday, the U.S. military said, claiming their deaths will blunt Iraqi resistance to the American occupation.
It was the most successful American operation since the war and comes as a much-needed tonic for U.S. troops, who recently have suffered a dozen attacks a day.


Acting on a tip from an Iraqi informant, U.S. forces mounted a six-hour operation in which they surrounded and then stormed a palatial villa in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez told reporters in Baghdad.


Four coalition soldiers were wounded and two other Iraqis were killed in the raid, but Saddam was not among them. The house belonged to a Saddam cousin, a tribal leader in the region.


"We are certain that Odai and Qusai were killed today," Sanchez said. "The bodies were in such a condition where you could identify them."


The daily attacks on U.S. occupation troops are thought to be the work of former military officers and Baath Party leaders loyal to Saddam and his family — especially the sons, who played primary roles in the military and feared security services.


"Outstanding," said 1st Lt. Greg Wilson, 33, with the Florida Army National Guard in the northeast section of Baghdad. He clapped his hands and said: "One step closer to getting home."


The White House applauded the action.


"Over the period of many years, these two individuals were responsible for countless atrocities committed against the Iraqi people and they can no longer cast a shadow of hate on Iraq (news - web sites)," it said in a statement.


Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) echoed those remarks.


"I was pleased to learn that these two brutal members of Saddam's regime are no longer a threat," Powell said in a statement. "The Iraqi people are safer today. We will pursue the other members of his murderous regime wherever they might be hiding."


"This will contribute significantly to reducing attacks on coalition soldiers," said Ahmad Chalabi, a delegate from Iraq's Governing Council, speaking at the United Nations (news - web sites).


Sanchez said he thought the security situation now would improve.


"I believe very firmly this will have an effect. This will prove to the Iraqi people that these two members of the Iraqi regime will never come to power again," the general said.


After the firefight in Mosul, about 1,000 people gathered outside the smoldering villa, some expressing delight, others cursing the Americans.


Hours later, gunfire erupted throughout Baghdad, making travel in the capital very dangerous. The shooting was believed to be celebratory as news spread of the sons' deaths.


Both Odai (pronounced oh-DEYE) and Qusai (pronounced koh-SEYE) ranked second only to their father in the deposed regime. They were Nos. 2 and 3 on the U.S. list of 55 top former Iraqi officials wanted by Washington. The United States had offered a $25 million reward for information leading to Saddam's capture and $15 million each for his sons.


In Washington, L. Paul Bremer, Iraq's top civilian administrator, said the deaths of Saddam's sons "certainly is good news for the Iraqi people."

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld personally kept President Bush (news - web sites) informed through the day.

The gunfight in Mosul broke out after soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division surrounded the stone, columned villa.

When soldiers approached the building, gunmen inside opened fire with small arms. The "suspects barricaded themselves in the house" and "resisted fiercely," Sanchez said.

"They died in a fierce gunbattle," he added.

Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division were working on a tip from an Iraqi informant Monday night that the sons were in the house, he said.

Asked if the United States would pay the $15 million rewards, Sanchez said: "I would expect that it probably will happen."

According to witnesses, a small force of American soldiers went to the house about 9 a.m. and asked permission to search it. The occupants refused, and the patrol withdrew until about 10 a.m., when 100 more soldiers arrived in 25 vehicles.

The Americans opened fire and took fierce return fire from inside the home, the witnesses said. Kiowa helicopters then shot rockets into the villa.

The building, in the al-Falah neighborhood, was left charred and smoldering, its high facade riddled with gaping holes from bullets and heavy weaponry.

The interior of the house was destroyed and two adjacent homes were badly damaged.

Some Mosul civilians appeared to have been caught in the crossfire. It was not known how many were injured, but several were taken to a hospital.

Once the fighting died down, Iraqi police came to help the Americans search the building.

The soldiers removed four bodies and did not let photographers take pictures. The other two bodies were tentatively identified as that of a bodyguard and a teenager, U.S. officials said. The teen may have been a son of Qusai, they said.

Experts conducted DNA tests after the bodies were flown from Mosul to another location, officials said. But Sanchez would not answer whether the tests were positive, saying "we've used multiple, multiple sources to identify the individuals."

In the confusion of celebratory gunfire across Baghdad, a unit of the Florida Army National Guard, believing that it was coming under fire, shot a man twice in the chest and a girl who looked to be between 6 and 8 once in the head.

The man was firing a gun about 30 yards away, as the unit — attached to the 3rd Batallion, 53rd Infantry Brigade — shot back. As the unit retreated under orders, a medic treated the girl, who was taken to a hospital in a passing car.

Qusai was probably intended as Saddam's successor, according to U.S. intelligence officials. He ran much of Iraq's security apparatus, controlling several militias, internal security services and the military forces of the once-vaunted Republican Guard.

He was described as quiet and levelheaded, particularly compared to Odai, his elder brother, who had a reputation for brutality and flamboyance. Odai controlled Saddam's Fedayeen, the paramilitary force that fought U.S. troops during the war; many of its survivors are thought to be part of the guerrilla campaign in Iraq.

Odai also controlled information and propaganda, and was chairman of the country's Olympic committee.

Saddam has a third, younger son, according to some reports, and three daughters. All kept a low profile in his regime.

Mosul, a city 240 miles northwest of Baghdad that housed Iraqi army bases, is outside the so-called "Sunni Triangle" in central Iraq. It is home to much of the remaining support for Saddam, a Sunni Muslim who used his Baathist Party to oppress the country's Shiite majority.

The triangle is also a center of anti-American resistance: In the latest attack, Tuesday, a U.S. soldier was killed and another wounded in an ambush along a dangerous road north of Baghdad. His death brought to 153 the number of U.S. troops killed in action since the March 20 start of war, six more than during the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites).

The U.S. Central Command said the attackers used rocket-propelled grenades and small arms in the assault staged along the road between Balad, 50 miles north of Baghdad, and Ramadi, 60 miles west of the capital.

Twice during the war, information on Saddam's whereabouts was deemed solid enough that an airstrike was sent to kill him. But despite optimistic statements in the hours after each raid, U.S. officials now believe he is alive.

Asked at Tuesday's news conference if he had any idea where is, Sanchez replied: "We remain focused on finding, fixing, killing or capturing all members of the high-value target list."


YES! :D


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:02 pm
 


I hope they got them, that this doesn't turn out to be another near miss or case of mistaken identity. There are some troubling things in the report...the injured civilians, the continued insistence of the US military that it is only Saddam's supporters who oppose them, the non-answer about the DNA tests.

The other troubling thing is how this is seen as somehow bringing a quick end to resistance when it could just as easily cement Saddam's sons as martyrs in much of the Middle East. The markets in the US climbed at the news, but they'll sink just as quickly when another US soldier who only wants to go home gets killed.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:34 pm
 


Some one just made himself 15 million dollars U.S. There was a reward for them, For Saddam its 25 M


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 9:29 am
 


You posted exactly what I'd been thinking, Rev.

Although I don't think that Saddam's sons will be considered Martyrs.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 9:36 am
 


Where's Osama ?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:15 pm
 


:twisted: HA HA HA...... those 2 little shits are burning in hell now!!!!!!! :twisted:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:07 pm
 


:roll: There are some ones kids you know.... :? :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:59 pm
 


I dunno Twila, they went down shooting at the US invaders. In that part of the world right now that's a pretty strong endorsement for martyrdom.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:16 pm
 


Very true Rev. But these two were (according to reports) not well liked.

I guess alot depends on how many Saddam supporters are left.

I certainly don't believe that this will quell the unrest.

Rev, what do you think this will mean to the middle east. Do you think this might flush Saddam out? Do you think that this will be shown as just another example of US Occupation? I just read on Alternet that the US casualties are in fact higher then what has been reported in the main stream news. Which makes that story about the Canadian reporter's story of low US morale and subsequent public/gov't response that much more interesting, no?
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/

I'm concerned about what this "victory" is could mean and any fallout from it.

I'm curious to know what others think about it. Other then "glad they're dead' responses would be nice.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 5:19 pm
 


Some Iraqis are quite glad that the sons are dead. Their deaths will no doubt give some Iraqis hope that Sadam's regime won't come back. As evidenced in today's news , American troops are still targets. Some of those killing and/or trying to kill U.S. soldiers are Sadam supporters. However there are some who are glad he is gone , yet ALSO do not want the U.S. in Iraq anymore. Still more Iraqis who are glad Sadam is gone , are disgusted with U.S. reconstruction efforts , as well as some "rough handling" by U.S. troops who are tired, edgy, angry at seeing their comrades being killed , and would like to get the hell back home.
Shrub's own administration has basically admited recently that there wasn't a comprehensive plan for what to do in Iraq after the war. Priority has got to be to restore basic services like water and electricity ( send in the seabees if necessary ) and address the core needs of the people such as medical care and more security from looters. American soldiers are not trained to be police or occupation forces , and they are stretched thin in Iraq anyway. Bush needs to suck it up for the sake of U.S. troops and the Iraqi people and request help ( even if it means going through the U.N. because other countries require that before they will lend support ) It's still about winning the hearts and minds of the overall population . If you win over the majority , that eventually goes along way towards getting rid of the shit disturbers. If the U.S. doesn't make some serious efforts quickly , many Iraqis who would otherwise welcome intervention might choose to fight against their liberators , even if Sadam is killed or captured. Obviously the fall of Sadam has also released previously restrained fanatical religious groups - an issue that the administration was warned about prior to the start of the war.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:41 am
 


And yet, Bush stated they had plans for reconstruction etc. That was why this war would be different then the first.

Canada just sent some peace keeping troups to Afganistan to help out there (since that one also didn't go as swimmingly as the Bush admin said it would) So that should free up some more US soldiers.

Maybe they should just pull out altogether and let the Iraqis decided for themselves. I realize that the US might then not have the US sided gov't they want, but at some point people need to wake up and decide whether they would prefer to have their young men and women alive or whether they want cheap oil.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:48 am
 


Sorry about that last post, It sounded a bit angry didn't it?

Senseless deaths causes me to be a wee bit angry. Gov'ts that allow it so they can line their pockets and lie about it tends to get me going.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 10:40 am
 


RoyalHighlander RoyalHighlander:
:roll: There are some ones kids you know.... :? :roll:


Yeah - Saddam's. Good riddence
image edited by Rh for content


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 5:13 pm
 


I was going to answer you this morning Twila, but I had to put on pants and go rent some kittens.

I think the mood in the Middle East is about to get ugly. The killing is one thing, the propaganda about it is another. Publishing the pictures just further blackened the name of the US over there...they didn't gain a lot of converts, but they have shown themselves to be as brutal and uncaring as Saddam was. Publishing those pictures may also be against international law. The US certainly did think it was illegal when their war dead showed up on al Jazeera.

Iran is about to come apart at the seams, but both sides are increasingly anti-American. That, according to an aquaintance of mine who has spent a fair bit of time in the Middle East with his Nikons, has a fair bit to do with the present diplomatic situation between Canada and Iran over our dead journalist. In Iran Canadians and Americans are not really considered different and her treatment and the Irani reaction after her death was at least partly an attempt to send a message to the world that they are willing to play hardball.

Saudi Arabia is a time bomb. A lot of the population there support Osama, a lot of others supported Saddam. Virtually nobody supports the US...that's why one of the steps toward "democratisation" (I'll believe that when I see it) is booting the US troops out of the country.

Syria, Jordan, Egypt, even parts of Turkey, are massively split on the Saddam vs. George II issue. A lot of people are glad Saddam is gone, but think the US is as bad worse. The US has done little to change that line of thought.

I've heard, on CBC Radio One, three separate interviews where the point was brought up that a lot of Middle Easterners, not just Iraqis, feel that Saddam's boys getting killed was a political assassination, a murder...that they could have been captured. I don't believe that...I believe there was a gun fight and the bigger guns won. That doesn't matter much though, that those in the Middle East who believe that the little monsters are dead also believe that they were killed more or less in cold blood speaks volumes about how the US is regarded in the region.

If the US doesn't back off, admit it was wrong, and call the UN in to clean up its mess, then things are going to get a lot uglier. We will see more terrorism against the US and its allies around the world and the Middle East will likely drag a lot of Africa and some of Eastern Europe into its mess.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 8:20 am
 


Thanks for the reply Rev.

I was thinking that the situation caused by this "victory" wasn't going to be good.

But you have to explain this to me:
$1:
I was going to answer you this morning Twila, but I had to put on pants and go rent some kittens.


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