[BeaverFever]

andyt andyt:

The Atta residents that work at the mine are employees of the mine. Those are not contracts, those are further earnings flowing into the community.

That's not true, Attawapiskat Limited Partnership, for example has the catering contract. Attawapiskat Resources Inc is another community-owned business that engages in joint vetures with other business to provide security, blasting material and other items. I'm sure they have to hire workers from elsewhere too, but that just goes shows how that money leaves the community.

$1:

DeBeers has also put in tens of millions in direct aid to the community, plus pays them a 2% royalty. That's a lot of money flowing into that place - what do they have to show for it?

Royalties are payable to the Province. If there was some royalty offered as a special concession, I coulnd't find any reference to it. A link would be appreciated. Of Note: The James Bay Treaty that you want nullified, the Bands explicity waive their right to royalties from natural resources. So you can't have it both ways.

As I said, a writer compared Prince George and how they are able to benefit from the forests that surround them. But PG doesn't own those forests, nor do they get any royalties from them (those go to the BC govt). The money in PG comes from people working in those forests and bringing that money to PG and paying local taxes. Why can't the Atta people do that, and if there just isn't enough work around where they live, well them let them move to where there is work. What is with this idea that Indians should get a good life without working, while other Canadians who don't work a very poor life on welfare?[/quote] Well the second part of the above comment has more merit. The mine is 90km BY AIR. The people who go to work at the mine (only about 100 of them are from Atta) live IN CAMP at the mine for weeks at a time and spend a significant amount of their income there. As already mentioned, the jobs that Atta residents hold there are usually the low-paying jobs like housekeeping and food service. Further, the workers who come in from elsewhere fly in to the mine and stay at the camp so the economic benefit to the village 90 km away by air is dminished and not comparable to a town that is easily accessible to the work site. To the second point, you are correct that many of these remote settlements are simply too remote to be economically viable and self-sufficient. But what is your definition of "a good life"? I don't understand how you can watch people forced to shit in buckets and babies die of medieval diseases and just shrug your shoulders and spout off some right-wing rhetoric about how people who dont "work for a living" deserve that level of human depravity. More specifically, we signed a treaty promising to provide them certain things in exchange for land (and the resource wealth that we extract from it and keep for ourselves). If we no longer want to provide those things, there are basically 2 options: give the land back or promise other things instead. Those "other things" could include some type of integration program where the FN move out of remote areas into cities or at least less remote communities.

[BeaverFever]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Considering how long the Liberals have been in power in this Country and the numerous promises that Liberals made to the Atta people and then did nothing...they have no basis to stand on their soap box on this one.

What did Bob Rae do to help the Native people in his Province when he was Premier?

Nothing.

Let me clarify: My post should say liberals, not Liberals (L was capitalised because I started the sentence with the word).

It's not in the political interest of any party, federal or provincial to do anything about the Aboriginal situation. They're only 3% of the population and generally don't vote, so there's nothing to be gained by helping them. Plus as we can see here, doing anything except pointing all the fingers at the Indians makes Whitey mad so there are votes to lose. Diseased, dying babies be damned.

Aboriginal Affairs, contrary to popular beleif, is not a welfare organization. Just like Foreign Affairs is not an international aid agency, even though it does sometimes engage in aid. Aboriginal Affairs mandate is basically to "manage" the government's and the private sector's relationship with the Indians. Aboriginal Affairs' job is to work out deals that keep the indians from blocking logging trucks and preventing mines and oil wells from going in. Apart from that, it does little else. If you go to the Aboriginal Affairs website, you'll see that it specifally says they DO NOT provide funding for housing. In reality, Aboriginal Affairs just facilitate loans to the reserve and to residents from private lenders that are repayable with interest.The money they spend to get the Indians to cooperate is a fraction of what the government(s) collects in royalites and tax revenue from all the various Natural Resources operations accross the country that come from exploration on Native land.

[andyt]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

To the second point, you are correct that many of these remote settlements are simply too remote to be economically viable and self-sufficient. But what is your definition of "a good life"? I don't understand how you can watch people forced to shit in buckets and babies die of medieval diseases and just shrug your shoulders and spout off some right-wing rhetoric about how people who dont "work for a living" deserve that level of human depravity. More specifically, we signed a treaty promising to provide them certain things in exchange for land (and the resource wealth that we extract from it and keep for ourselves). If we no longer want to provide those things, there are basically 2 options: give the land back or promise other things instead. Those "other things" could include some type of integration program where the FN move out of remote areas into cities or at least less remote communities.

I don't just shrug my shoulders, unless the people affected obstinately persist in maintaining their poor choices - at some point, what are you going to do? They're forced to shit in buckets because they don't generate enough money for themselves, misspend the money they do get and don't maintain their homes. We don't give other Canadians on welfare a good life, so why these people? I'm all for helping them get out of the situation they're in with money for relocation, education and transitional funding, but not just sending them more money to waste. So we're actually not in disagreement. My vision for Canada is that a decent safety net exists for everybody, no matter their color. No special deals for natives, but natives would obviously get a disproportionate amount of funding. But people also have to do their bit, this isn't just and about an easy life on welfare. People who really can't work, give them a decent enough life, but people who won't work when they can - sorry.

You're going to lose your liberal cred with the natives using words like integration - they'll call you racist just as much as the hardest assed righty tighty. But that's the only way out of this dilemma I see - we can't just have spatial status people in Canada based on race. Bad enough we have it based on wealth.

[andyt]

He're the compensation piece - I was way off:

$1:

The mining company gives Attawapiskat about $2-million a year for use of its traditional land.

Still nothing to sneeze at just for tribute.

[OldChum]

andyt andyt:

He're the compensation piece - I was way off:

$1:

The mining company gives Attawapiskat about $2-million a year for use of its traditional land.

Still nothing to sneeze at just for tribute.

Have you recently read the Indian Act and how it controls what these people can and can not do on the reserve. Obviously not by your comment,s
Second point have you recently seen what Quebec cost Canada to keep it happy and alive . The Indians are small potatoes compared .

[andyt]

So let's get rid of the Indian act and treat natives just like every other Canadian. Same rights, no more, no less, same responsibilities. (Can you say taxes)

[Curtman]

Which taxes?

Do you believe that an Indian who lives and works outside of a reserve is taxed at a different rate than you or I? Are you equally upset that Hutterites don't pay taxes on their colony?

[Macguyver]

http://www.auditor.sk.ca/saskrepnew.nsf/html/2011vol2index.html/$file/News%20release%20-%20Reporting%20Financial%20Results.pdf

Funny, looks like provinces aren't made to accepted accounting practices. I see not mention of fraud in the article. We steal from Peter to pay Paul every day at every level of government.

Why aren't you guys demanding our governments live up to the generally accepted accounting practices...but the Indians should.

Double standard much?

[Macguyver]

andyt andyt:

So let's get rid of the Indian act and treat natives just like every other Canadian. Same rights, no more, no less, same responsibilities. (Can you say taxes)

Did you not know that indians working off reserve do pay all taxes?

And how many jobs are there on reserves anyhow?

[Macguyver]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

BRAH BRAH:

It's time to cut off Native Bands in Canada once and for all.

It'll never happen as long as there is one left wing apologist for the past alive in Canada.

It'd be better to tell them that their subsidies are incumbent on them allowing regular independent audit's of the Bands, Chiefs an Councils.

Oh yeah and tax free status is over. They can pay it like the other people on welfare, EI, disability and Government pensions do.

Sounds good to me, assimilate all the Indians, make them conform, how about we steal their children and make them act like white people. Maybe we should let the church take care of that! Maybe we’ll send them to little desolate plots of land till they agree with us, we’ll give em just enough to live and wait till they get fed up and join regular society!

You a fucking genius man, why didn’t we think of that earlier?

[Macguyver]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

BRAH BRAH:

It's time to cut off Native Bands in Canada once and for all.

It'd be better to tell them that their subsidies are incumbent on them allowing regular independent audit's of the Bands, Chiefs an Councils.

What they don't get audited now? Wait isn't this article about an audit?

What exactly do you want? A moment by moment update of every red cent spent?

Did I just ask 4 rhetorical questions in a row?

[OnTheIce]

Macguyver Macguyver:

http://www.auditor.sk.ca/saskrepnew.nsf/html/2011vol2index.html/$file/News%20release%20-%20Reporting%20Financial%20Results.pdf

Funny, looks like provinces aren't made to accepted accounting practices. I see not mention of fraud in the article. We steal from Peter to pay Paul every day at every level of government.

Why aren't you guys demanding our governments live up to the generally accepted accounting practices...but the Indians should.

Double standard much?

So, because the governments books aren't in order, it's ok for a community to steal and cheat the system while allowing their own people to live in 3rd World conditions?

Makes total sense.

[Macguyver]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Macguyver Macguyver:

http://www.auditor.sk.ca/saskrepnew.nsf/html/2011vol2index.html/$file/News%20release%20-%20Reporting%20Financial%20Results.pdf

Funny, looks like provinces aren't made to accepted accounting practices. I see not mention of fraud in the article. We steal from Peter to pay Paul every day at every level of government.

Why aren't you guys demanding our governments live up to the generally accepted accounting practices...but the Indians should.

Double standard much?

So, because the governments books aren't in order, it's ok for a community to steal and cheat the system while allowing their own people to live in 3rd World conditions?

Makes total sense.

A) The article says nothing about stealing
B) I'm not saying its right, I'm wondering why you let a government with a few billion at stake get a free pass yet $191,000 for fixing a cemetary goes to someother program and you shit yourselves.

[Curtman]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

So, because the governments books aren't in order, it's ok for a community to steal and cheat the system while allowing their own people to live in 3rd World conditions?

See, when you use words like "steal and cheat", you are implying that there is something illegal going on. Housing on reserves is a federal responsibility. They allow or disallow it.

[OnTheIce]

Macguyver Macguyver:

A) The article says nothing about stealing
B) I'm not saying its right, I'm wondering why you let a government with a few billion at stake get a free pass yet $191,000 for fixing a cemetary goes to someother program and you shit yourselves.

You don't need an article to tell you what's going on within a reserve. I've seen it with my own eyes.

The government doesn't get a free pass and often gets raked over the coals for mis-pending money. Why should Native bands be any different?

When you decide to look into the books of these Bands, you're called a "racist".

Natives, not the rest of Canada, have allowed their own people to live in these conditions.

Canada does not owe Native's a prosperous and free life. We'll give them tons of benefits to hit the ground running but if you chose to do nothing with your life and community, it's not our fault. A little self respect and appreciation for what you have goes a long way.