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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:42 pm
 


$1:
Why cheap hydro was too good to be true: Cohn
Are we paying too much for electricity now, or were we just paying too little before?
Blaming an electricity utility for price hikes is like showering praise on Enbridge or Union Gas for declining natural gas bills, writes Martin Regg Cohn.

By: Martin Regg Cohn Provincial Politics, Published on Sat Jan 16 2016

Nothing gets a rise out of ratepayers like rising electricity bills.

But here’s an inconveniently powerful truth about power rates: We may be suffering from hydro hysteria — and electricity amnesia.

Yes, prices are going up faster than in recent memory. True, the price of power remains a lightning rod for the party in power.

But the inescapable reality is that waste and bungling alone cannot explain the recent increases in hydro prices.

The mere fact that we’re paying more doesn’t prove that we’re overpaying massively. And it doesn’t tell us the real reasons for the increases.

Blaming an electricity utility for price hikes is like showering praise on Enbridge or Union Gas for declining natural gas bills, or expressing gratitude to Shell for falling prices at the fuel pump — ignoring the shale gas revolution and the plunge in world oil prices.

True, Ontario’s green energy plan was rolled out recklessly, and relocating gas-fired plants wasted billions of dollars. But the truth is those costs will be spread over decades, and represent only a small fraction of hydro prices now (or in the near future) — so they are only a partial, and possibly fractional explanation.

Notice that politicians who criticize high prices carefully refrain from promising reduced prices, or implying they could ever restrain future increases. They know better than to promise the impossible — and that successive governments bear part of the blame for decades of meddling and mismanagement.

But here’s a question many don’t think to ask: Is today’s price for electricity all that high to begin with?

As the accompanying article by my colleagues Robert Benzie and Rob Ferguson show, the daily price of electricity in Ontario is in the same ballpark as a cup of coffee at Starbucks, a burger, or a home bundle from Bell and Rogers. When critics say impoverished ratepayers must choose between heating and eating, it’s a stretch.

Another premise worth examining: Are we paying too much now, or were we just paying too little before?

One reason prices are rising so fast is that electricity costs were kept artificially low for decades, suppressed to give us a competitive advantage over neighbouring jurisdictions. Cheap power attracted investment, but also saddled us with the debt overhang that we’ve been paying off ever since.

Another distortion: The deliberate lack of investment in electricity infrastructure during the late 1990s artificially kept prices low, but forced subsequent governments to spend billions more to make up for those lost years.

So if prices seem unseasonably high now, that’s partly because they were unreasonably low before. You can pay now or you can be zapped later. But if you try to insulate yourself from the present-day price, you’ll face a future electricity shock.

That’s one reason why ratepayers have been stuck with the mysterious and malignant Debt Retirement Charge (DRC) on their monthly bills for so long. After the governing Progressive Conservatives dreamed it up in the late 1990s to offload Ontario Hydro’s “stranded (unrecoverable) debt,” the Tories piled on yet more debt by keeping electricity rates unsustainably low in the run-up to the 2003 election — saddling us with a burden of more than $20 billion.

All that bungling is a backdrop to the last 13 years of Liberal rule and misrule, when electricity was pushed and pulled in all directions:
The 2008 economic shock reduced power demand for years to come, throwing a spanner at planners. The Liberals responded with a combined green energy strategy and industrial strategy, gambling that price incentives for wind and solar power could spur job-creation and backstop a dwindling manufacturing sector. It proved to be an expensive bet, largely because then-premier Dalton McGuinty was so oblivious to both price and process.
A big factor in Ontario’s increased energy costs is also its least controversial: eliminating coal-fired generation. Coal is dirty, but dirt cheap. Replacing it required expensive gas-fired power plants. Neighbouring U.S. states offer lower rates because they still burn coal (though the spread in rates has dissipated as our once-inflated petro-dollar weakens). As carbon pricing comes in, that calculation will change further.
We aren’t blessed with the bounty of lakes and rivers that our hydro-happy neighbours in Manitoba and Quebec boast of. Topography can be tough on the pocketbook. Recent hydroelectric projects here have led to major cost overruns, proving that most of Ontario’s low hanging hydro has already been harvested. New builds — whether in hydro, nuclear, or natural gas — are always more expensive than legacy projects.

Energy experts can disagree on all these causes and effects, and their relative impacts on your electricity bill. But the point is that when you add them all up, we get the energy prices we more or less deserve — or voted for.

Ontarians gave a massive mandate to the Liberals in 2003 to get rid of coal, and are glad to be rid of smog days that cursed asthma sufferers. Most voters strongly supported renewable energy in 2007 and again in 2011, notwithstanding rural opposition to wind power. People were spooked by the prospect of brownouts and blackouts under PC rule, and would prefer a temporary surplus over a chronic shortfall (the oversupply will diminish as our nuclear reactors are refurbished). And people in Mississauga and Oakville pressured the government to cancel those gas-fired plants, oblivious to the costs.

Are we overpaying for power because of screw-ups by the party (or parties) in power? Assuredly yes, but far less than most people assume.

It’s not so much residential ratepayers who are being ripped off as industrial users that are being turned off — seduced by rival jurisdictions that can tap hydro or defiantly burn coal.

The history of electricity is a story of complexity. We can keep grumbling about the loss of cheap power, or we can grapple with our electricity reality — a prerequisite to generating better outcomes.

Martin Regg Cohn’s Ontario politics column usually appears Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday. [email protected] , Twitter: @reggcohn



http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/ ... -cohn.html


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:11 am
 


$1:
Notice that politicians who criticize high prices carefully refrain from promising reduced prices, or implying they could ever restrain future increases. They know better than to promise the impossible
Funny, I noticed that the Wynned Bag at one point in her campaign promised "significant rate relief". I guess she didn't know better. Well, either that or she realized just how stupid Ontario's liberal supporters are.

$1:
the oversupply will diminish as our nuclear reactors are refurbished
Um really? So having even MORE generation will diminish the oversupply problem? That's like saying you can make a bonfire smaller by throwing more wood on it.
$1:
As the accompanying article by my colleagues Robert Benzie and Rob Ferguson show, the daily price of electricity in Ontario is in the same ballpark as a cup of coffee at Starbucks, a burger, or a home bundle from Bell and Rogers. When critics say impoverished ratepayers must choose between heating and eating, it’s a stretch.
What a bunch of fucking tools. Tell that shit to the people in the Villages of Riverside in Windsor, or any other subdivision built in the '70s utilizing electric heat! I'd hardly call $900/mo as being in the same ballpark as a Starbucks coffee, or a burger, or a home bundle. That's not even on the same planet. In fact, Hydro rates have increased by 275% from 2002-2015.


$1:
And people in Mississauga and Oakville pressured the government to cancel those gas-fired plants, oblivious to the costs.
Yep, that's right. Blame the residents and not the govt that utterly failed to do a feasibility study or hold any consultations with the residents on the locations of the gas plants.

Of course this fluff piece neglects to mention that part of the Liberal's green energy plan was to allow the industry to write up its own regulations. Regulations that are NOT in line with international standards! No surprise there was so much opposition in rural communities. Huge turbines have been situated 550m from various residences. That's 1450m closer than international standards allow.
Many properties saw their values plunge by as much as 50%.
The Ontario govt gave property owners absolutely zero recourse to fight the placement of turbines too close to their homes, and even when they did manage to lawyer up, the goddam govt provided legal assistance for the companies being taken to court.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:34 am
 


PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
Funny, I noticed that the Wynned Bag at one point in her campaign promised "significant rate relief". I guess she didn't know better. Well, either that or she realized just how stupid Ontario's liberal supporters are.

How much more rate-relief do you want? The government is already paying nearly half of Ontarians' electricity bills with subsidization. Do you want it free? How much more do you want your taxes to go up to subsidize your electricity?

PA9 PA9:
$1:
the oversupply will diminish as our nuclear reactors are refurbished
Um really? So having even MORE generation will diminish the oversupply problem? That's like saying you can make a bonfire smaller by throwing more wood on it.

Uhhh, you have to shut down the reactor to refurbish it. That doesn't create more generation. Reactor refurbishing takes years. When they're shut down, they'll be down a decade or more.

PA9 PA9:
$1:
As the accompanying article by my colleagues Robert Benzie and Rob Ferguson show, the daily price of electricity in Ontario is in the same ballpark as a cup of coffee at Starbucks, a burger, or a home bundle from Bell and Rogers. When critics say impoverished ratepayers must choose between heating and eating, it’s a stretch.
What a bunch of fucking tools. Tell that shit to the people in the Villages of Riverside in Windsor, or any other subdivision built in the '70s utilizing electric heat! I'd hardly call $900/mo as being in the same ballpark as a Starbucks coffee, or a burger, or a home bundle. That's not even on the same planet. In fact, Hydro rates have increased by 275% from 2002-2015.

I knew, 20+ years ago when I bought my first house, that buying a house with electric heat was a bad idea. If people chose to buy homes with electric heat, the costs of that decision are on them, not the government. And of course electricity rates have gone up a lot. Making people who USE hydro pay for it rather than fucking those of us who don't use it through taxes and subsidization is absolutely reasonable. I'm sick of paying Riversiders' electricity bills. Tell them to go spend $5000 and get a gas furnace.

PA9 PA9:
$1:
And people in Mississauga and Oakville pressured the government to cancel those gas-fired plants, oblivious to the costs.
Yep, that's right. Blame the residents and not the govt that utterly failed to do a feasibility study or hold any consultations with the residents on the locations of the gas plants.

Fuck the people of Miss and Oakville. If they don't want the gas plants in their communities, then they can use fucking candles. The NIMBYers in the GTA are the cause of this fiasco. Don't blame the government for doing what they're hired to do: enact policies the people ask for.

PA9 PA9:
Of course this fluff piece neglects to mention that part of the Liberal's green energy plan was to allow the industry to write up its own regulations. Regulations that are NOT in line with international standards! No surprise there was so much opposition in rural communities. Huge turbines have been situated 550m from various residences. That's 1450m closer than international standards allow.
Many properties saw their values plunge by as much as 50%.
The Ontario govt gave property owners absolutely zero recourse to fight the placement of turbines too close to their homes, and even when they did manage to lawyer up, the goddam govt provided legal assistance for the companies being taken to court.

That's a half truth, at best. The people who have windmills on their land are more than well compensated for having them. The only people who have turbines close to their homes are being paid, handsomely, to have them there. How much of a premium would you have us pay these people? Double? Triple the rate they're getting? You're already bitching about the price of electricity. Where do you think that price will go if we give wind-turbine hosts even more compensation?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:34 pm
 


Lemmy Lemmy:
Fuck the people of Miss and Oakville. If they don't want the gas plants in their communities, then they can use fucking candles. The NIMBYers in the GTA are the cause of this fiasco. Don't blame the government for doing what they're hired to do: enact policies the people ask for.


Incorrect.

The government didn't make that decision.

As the Liberals themselves have stated, it was a political decision made in the middle of an election campaign to win those particular ridings.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:10 pm
 


OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Incorrect.

The government didn't make that decision.

As the Liberals themselves have stated, it was a political decision made in the middle of an election campaign to win those particular ridings.

But the Liberals were the government, weren't they? If they didn't make the decision, who did?

Yes, it was a political decision. It was a decision made to make the residents of the ridings in question happy. Absolutely. It was a course of action that all three parties promised Oakville and Mississauga voters to get their votes.

But isn't that what governments are supposed to do, make decisions that the people want made on their behalf? So what's your point?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:50 pm
 


My point would be this political decision cost the taxpayers approx $2B. This is not a good way to serve all your constituents.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:57 pm
 


Them being re-elected several times since the decision was made indicates that they suffered no repercussions at all from a historically expensive bad idea. This is when I start to believe the campaign commercials that say they're all laughing at us because which one of them wouldn't giggle like a hyena when their punishment for doing things like that is to receive successively larger majorities.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:41 pm
 


Lemmy Lemmy:
But the Liberals were the government, weren't they? If they didn't make the decision, who did?

Yes, it was a political decision. It was a decision made to make the residents of the ridings in question happy. Absolutely. It was a course of action that all three parties promised Oakville and Mississauga voters to get their votes.

But isn't that what governments are supposed to do, make decisions that the people want made on their behalf? So what's your point?


Either you didn't follow the situation very well or you're trying to make excuses for the Liberals. I can't tell where you are on this.

The President of the LPO isn't a member of the government. When he and the rest of the Liberal minions, along with Premier Dad, make this decision with a week remaining in an election for the sole purpose of winning that election, there's zero justification.

Point being, you say this was an act of good government. Just the Ontario Liberals listening to the people. This was an act of vote buying after ignoring those very same people for years! The decision was made, contracts tendered and the work had already begun.

You can stop making apologies for the Ontario Liberals.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:05 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
Them being re-elected several times since the decision was made indicates that they suffered no repercussions at all from a historically expensive bad idea. This is when I start to believe the campaign commercials that say they're all laughing at us because which one of them wouldn't giggle like a hyena when their punishment for doing things like that is to receive successively larger majorities.


I am sure they are laughing... What I would like to know is just how much government money was used to buy the votes to keep them there. My niece in law voted Liberal cause her union told her too. They told her that there would be big job losses if the liberals didn't get back in. I think they payed the unions to say stuff like that. It is either that or the population of the province are forgetful dough brains. Mind you voting for someone because you were told too doesn't say much for there intelligence.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:07 pm
 


PluggyRug PluggyRug:
My point would be this political decision cost the taxpayers approx $2B. This is not a good way to serve all your constituents.

Well, except for those constituents who demanded the plants be cancelled. You'd agree that that was a good way to serve THOSE constituents, right?

Thanos Thanos:
Them being re-elected several times since the decision was made indicates that they suffered no repercussions at all from a historically expensive bad idea. This is when I start to believe the campaign commercials that say they're all laughing at us because which one of them wouldn't giggle like a hyena when their punishment for doing things like that is to receive successively larger majorities.

The reason the shit-Liberals keep getting re-elected is that Ontario remembers the even shittier Harris Conservative era and even shittier-still Bob Rae NDP era. That ought to indicate to you how bad Harris-Eves and Rae were that a shit-show as shitty as McGuinty/Wynne is less shitty than the shitty alternatives.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Either you didn't follow the situation very well or you're trying to make excuses for the Liberals. I can't tell where you are on this.

The President of the LPO isn't a member of the government. When he and the rest of the Liberal minions, along with Premier Dad, make this decision with a week remaining in an election for the sole purpose of winning that election, there's zero justification.

Point being, you say this was an act of good government. Just the Ontario Liberals listening to the people. This was an act of vote buying after ignoring those very same people for years! The decision was made, contracts tendered and the work had already begun.

You can stop making apologies for the Ontario Liberals.

Where did you get the idea I was making excuses for the Liberals? I'm not making apologies for anyone. Cancelling the gas plants was a terrible decision and I've never said anything but that. Didn't you see above when I said "fuck Oakville and fuck Mississauga"? Surely you remember me saying that previously. You're right, there's no justification for cancelling the gas plants. But that's what the people of Oakville and Mississauga wanted, nonetheless. And the Conservatives and NDPs ran on the same platform, of cancelling construction. So the Liberals were wrong, but no more or less than either of the other parties who were also vote-lobbying on promises of cancelling the plants.

I'm not saying this was an act of good government. I'm saying it was wrong and I've said that since day 1. So what is it that you're disagreeing with me about?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:29 pm
 


Lemmy Lemmy:
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
My point would be this political decision cost the taxpayers approx $2B. This is not a good way to serve all your constituents.

Well, except for those constituents who demanded the plants be cancelled. You'd agree that that was a good way to serve THOSE constituents, right?



To quote Mr Spock, "Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.”


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:34 pm
 


PluggyRug PluggyRug:
To quote Mr Spock, "Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.”

Does that make Spock a socialist?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:14 am
 


Lemmy Lemmy:
Well, except for those constituents who demanded the plants be cancelled. You'd agree that that was a good way to serve THOSE constituents, right?


Absolutely not.

You don't go through years and years of consultation and planning only to ignore the people and then last minute, when it looks like you may lose those seats during a campaign, the Liberal Party of Ontario makes a decision to listen to the people.

Lemmy Lemmy:
Where did you get the idea I was making excuses for the Liberals?

So what is it that you're disagreeing with me about?


I disagree with this:

$1:
Don't blame the government for doing what they're hired to do: enact policies the people ask for.


The government didn't enact any policy. The government ignored the people for years. The LPO made the choice to cancel these plants, not the government. Big difference.


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OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Absolutely not.

You don't go through years and years of consultation and planning only to ignore the people and then last minute, when it looks like you may lose those seats during a campaign, the Liberal Party of Ontario makes a decision to listen to the people.

Okay, I'll buy that, in this instance. Would you concede, however, that there may circumstances when it would be right for the government to, at the last minute, finally listen to the citizens of a particular riding and come to their "rescue" to do their bidding after years of vocal opposition to a government plan?

OTI OTI:
I disagree with this:

$1:
Don't blame the government for doing what they're hired to do: enact policies the people ask for.


The government didn't enact any policy. The government ignored the people for years. The LPO made the choice to cancel these plants, not the government. Big difference.

The LPO hasn't the authority to cancel a government project. You know that, surely. It may have been the LPO that recommended giving in to Oak/Miss for votes, but it was the government that ultimately had to pull the plug. And, again, don't forget that the Conservatives and NDPs also ran on the same promise of gas plant cancellation. So construction would have been halted no matter which party won the election.

This case illustrates the problems of NIMBYism in action. I disagree that it was anything particularly unique to the Liberal government (or LPO). All the hogs were elbowing their way to the trough by making promises to Oakville/Mississauga that were in the best interests of no one but voters in those ridings.

And the real villain in this case is the long-standing practice of government giving contractors outrageously generous cancellation penalties. I understand that business contracted to do work should receive some compensation should a project be altered or cancelled. But the numbers around this cancellation are outrageous. If there's a single thing that this incident ought to say to us, it's that, going forward, there should be significant limitation on the compensation that contractors can demand in circumstances such as this. A bunch of companies lining their pockets, at tax payer expense, for work not done is simply unacceptable in this fiscal climate.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:03 am
 


What was the real reason that those plants were cancelled, aside from what looks like everyone being really fucking stupid at the same time? Too many idiots all listening at once to some bullshit environmentalist horror story about a plant exploding or fumes killing everyone's kids? Shit, if you fall for that kind of crap from those liars, especially over something as proven to be safe as gas-generated electrical, then you deserve to have your utility rates skyrocket.


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