[Praxius]

I thought about this just a few minutes ago in another thread and it got me wondering:

We're always told that we're very much the same as the US, minus a few differences.

But How come there's very little relation to our other brother halfway around the world, Australia?

Let me try and set this up:

• Australia and Canada both have similar Governments.
• Australia and Canada both have extreme environments which cover a good chunk of territory.
• Australia and Canada are both former colonies of the British Empire.
• They Drink a lot.... we Drink a lot.
• Australia and Canada both have universal health care systems in place.
• Australia and Canada both have similar firearm laws.
• Australia was where all of Britians criminals were sent, while Canada was where all the unwanted went to get cheap land and farm resources for the Empire under harsh conditions.

I mean, besides driving on opposite sides of the road, us all hard up for Hockey and Aussies hard up for Australian Football (Both are pretty rough) There's not much difference.

But compared to the US?

Sure we sound the same for the most part, drive on the same side of the road and trade more with them..... um.... but other then that, it's kinda black and white in comparison.

We joke about their beer, we mostly disagree with their views on health care, firearms, etc. People in the US need glow-in-the-dark hockey pucks to keep up, they hate our CFL....

Thoughts?

(Note: this isn't some sly attempt to take a stab at either nation, but more of a focus on a commonly accepted belief of being the closest to the US)

Added:

I also have been thinking of this relation because I'll be heading there soon and marrying an Aussie who's lived here in Canada for the last two years. There have been some things I just haven't noticed until recently when it comes to Can/Aus similarities. Before I always figured we were closer to the UK (England) then the US, but now I've been thinking we're probably closer to Australia.

[commanderkai]

Praxius Praxius:

But How come there's very little relation to our other brother halfway around the world, Australia?

I mean, besides driving on opposite sides of the road, us all hard up for Hockey and Aussies hard up for Australian Football (Both are pretty rough) There's not much difference.

Well, I don't say we have little relation to Australia, just that the Americans dominate our relationship more than Australia, due to the extreme closeness, huge economic integration, cross border families (mine, as an example) among others examples.

I'd say that we have the same relationship to the US like New Zealand has to Australia. Australia is the more dominant between the two nations due to economics, larger size (population) so on and so forth.

$1:

But compared to the US?

Sure we sound the same for the most part, drive on the same side of the road and trade more with them..... um.... but other then that, it's kinda black and white in comparison.

Grossly exaggerating the "black and white" part. Canada and the US has huge similarities, though most Canadians won't admit it. States like Michigan, Ohio, and other Rust Belt US states are quite similar to southern Ontario. Alberta is close to Texas, Saskatchewan close to the US prairie states, BC to the US Pacific states, Maritimes to the Maine and other NE states.

Our climates are somewhat similar (depending on where, of course), our economies are more than just "we trade alot with them". And our histories overlap, from the War of 1812, the relief convoys to Britain in WWII, hell to bootlegging in the Prohibition days. Even our military infrastructure overlaps with NORAD.

Something you also mentioned. Even though Australia and Canada have similar governments, the Australian republic movement is much larger and more advanced compared to ours, plus Australia's more independent and rugged attitudes are more similar to the United States than Canada. And the US was a British colony before 1776

[Praxius]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Well, I don't say we have little relation to Australia, just that the Americans dominate our relationship more than Australia, due to the extreme closeness, huge economic integration, cross border families (mine, as an example) among others examples.

I'd say that we have the same relationship to the US like New Zealand has to Australia. Australia is the more dominant between the two nations due to economics, larger size (population) so on and so forth.

Well true, in that sense of comparison, but besides who we trade with more, who's closer, etc.... I was leaning more towards social relations.

As an example, Australia has a population around 21,007,310 as of July 08.... Canada has 33,212,696 (same date)

The US has approx: 303,824,640.

$1:

Grossly exaggerating the "black and white" part. Canada and the US has huge similarities, though most Canadians won't admit it. States like Michigan, Ohio, and other Rust Belt US states are quite similar to southern Ontario. Alberta is close to Texas, Saskatchewan close to the US prairie states, BC to the US Pacific states, Maritimes to the Maine and other NE states.

I've heard those relations as well, which do go hand in hand with the US/Canada close relation comments I created the thread from, but besides terrain and proximity, similar relations can be made with various Australian states and their business infrastructures.

I personally don't see the relation between the Maritimes and Main or New Hampshire, Massachusetts, New York, etc.... culturally speaking of course..... at least not with Nova Scotia. I can't personally speak for PEI or New Brunswick as I never spent a lot of time in those provinces to know.

Alberta and Texas I can see the relation due to oil and the cowboy thing.... but Australia also has Cowboys and a lot of Oil production as well.

$1:

Our climates are somewhat similar (depending on where, of course), our economies are more than just "we trade alot with them".

Summing up quickly, much of the relations we do have come from trading with one another. Everything else sorta just falls in place.

$1:

And our histories overlap, from the War of 1812,

Actually the majority of the combat during 1812 was done by British Regulars and in fact I was corrected by some in the US that there wasn't any Canadians present to the burning of the White House. I know technically we were still British at that time, but from what I've researched, no Canadian Militias were present during the attack.

$1:

the relief convoys to Britain in WWII,

As did the Australians....

$1:

hell to bootlegging in the Prohibition days. Even our military infrastructure overlaps with NORAD.

True, however as it goes for military man power, Canada doesn't par with the US as it does with Australia and the bootlegging situation falls back under trade, imo. People were losing business.

$1:

Something you also mentioned. Even though Australia and Canada have similar governments, the Australian republic movement is much larger and more advanced compared to ours, plus Australia's more independent and rugged attitudes are more similar to the United States than Canada. And the US was a British colony before 1776

Well yes, I'm aware the US was a Colony as well.... but neither Canada or Australia went to war for our independance from England. Adding to that, we're both part of the Commonwealth

As it goes for wanting to be a Republic or remain as is, they're still remaining as is for the time being, thus their Parliamentary Government is still closer to ours and neither of ours are close to the US's.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to somehow create some gap between the US and Canada, cuz that simply won't happen. This is just one of those non-important things that runs through my head from time to time that just never made sense to me.

Canada has close ties with the US, which is unquestionable.... but when it comes to who we actually relate to more in the world, I'd personally have to say the US get's second place, but it's a very close second.

Not that it really matters either way.

[Praxius]

Now here's a head scratcher.... What US State would Newfoundland relate to closest?

[commanderkai]

Praxius Praxius:

I personally don't see the relation between the Maritimes and Main or New Hampshire, Massachusetts, New York, etc.... culturally speaking of course..... at least not with Nova Scotia. I can't personally speak for PEI or New Brunswick as I never spent a lot of time in those provinces to know.

I disagree completely. The industries, the people, the regional dishes and such, the history are all quite similar. I think you need to visit Maine and the other states above Massachusetts, because the people are very family oriented, small town like, and very relaxed in life.

$1:

Alberta and Texas I can see the relation due to oil and the cowboy thing.... but Australia also has Cowboys and a lot of Oil production as well.

Its more than just oil and cowboys. It's the whole individualist, socially conservative ideas and ideologies behind them.

$1:

Summing up quickly, much of the relations we do have come from trading with one another. Everything else sorta just falls in place.

I disagree, again. I think you're really not understanding the whole concept. If you enter the Maritimes from Maine, the biggest difference will be the flag people are waving, because the personalities of the region are quite similar due to the histories of said areas.

$1:

Actually the majority of the combat during 1812 was done by British Regulars and in fact I was corrected by some in the US that there wasn't any Canadians present to the burning of the White House. I know technically we were still British at that time, but from what I've researched, no Canadian Militias were present during the attack.

Eh, I wasn't JUST referring to the burning of Washington. I was referring to the entire conflict, from the Americans burning York, the invasion of Niagara, etc etc

$1:

As did the Australians....

The Australians were able to sustain the same recovery convoys as the Canadian/American effort? Impossible, because we were the main ones shipping the goods over. Australia has a part of the war, no doubt, but we were working with the Americans mostly, and not with the Australians to help supply Great Britain. The Australians mostly were the British side of the Pacific War.


Anyway. I'm just saying that Canada relates to the US due to its trade and closeness. Sure there are differences, but our history, our economy, and even our culture just snaps into place in the North American jigsaw puzzle. Little chunks of America are in Canada, and vice versa. Australia's influence on Canada is not really there. We relate a bit more on the political side, and statistically, but culturally, economically, and socially we're closer to the USA.

[Canadian_Mind]

Praxius Praxius:

Now here's a head scratcher.... What US State would Newfoundland relate to closest?

Alaska. Both are separated from the rest of the country by anoter nation and large epanses of water. Both are a little wacked in the head, both are on the frontier, etc.

[ShepherdsDog]

Actually a more appropriate comparison would be Canada and New Zealand. The Australian character is more like that of the Americans.

[ShepherdsDog]

Praxius Praxius:

Now here's a head scratcher.... What US State would Newfoundland relate to closest?

Likely Maine and other less populated regions of New England. The Maritimes are just an extension of New England.

[Bodah]

A little hint ...

The answer to this question is the country we share a border with.

[herbie]

I often remind relatives in OZ that Canada and Australia are very similar. Except it's hotter there and everything's fucking poison.

[Praxius]

herbie herbie:

I often remind relatives in OZ that Canada and Australia are very similar. Except it's hotter there and everything's fucking poison.

lol, I've been told.... I guess there won't be many treks randomly into the woods like I always done all my life when I get there.... poop.

I'll take a look and reply to everything else tomorrow, I'm off to bed as we maritimers live in the future....

.... For those interested about the future, the world still exists, carry on

[ShepherdsDog]

You're wrong I'm at GMT +8 hrs. The world ended 5 minutes ago.

[Praxius]

commanderkai commanderkai:

I disagree completely.

Fair enough.

$1:

The industries, the people, the regional dishes and such, the history are all quite similar. I think you need to visit Maine and the other states above Massachusetts, because the people are very family oriented, small town like, and very relaxed in life.

Unfortunatly I don't know too many relaxed people around here in Nova Scotia. Sure, when you want to go touristing it about and go to all the various land marks tourists want to see, it all looks the same, because all you're shown is the ocean, fishing communities and camp sites... so no wonder.

If you don't think there arn't family oriented, small town-like and very relaxed people in Australia or elsewhere in the world, I dunno what to tell ya.

$1:

Its more than just oil and cowboys. It's the whole individualist, socially conservative ideas and ideologies behind them.

Ok... one thing so far

$1:

I disagree, again. I think you're really not understanding the whole concept.

Sure I do, you just don't understand the approach I am taking. If you want to base relation on terrain and closeness, then I should be very much like the guy who lives in the apartment next door to me.

Being in an oil area or a fishing community doesn't actually make you relate any better if your overall way of life and how your country is run / what you believe in, the things you support within your government, military, history, etc.

I'm coming at this in a more broader sense, while you're going for the proximity and environmental relations.

So in that sense, Scotland relates more to England then to Ireland, even though both are from a strong celtic backgrounds and believed in much of the same things, lived in similar communities, so on.

$1:

If you enter the Maritimes from Maine, the biggest difference will be the flag people are waving, because the personalities of the region are quite similar due to the histories of said areas.

And the police forces change, the laws change, the speeds change from miles to kilometers, accents change, I certainly notice the differences.....

In Australia, speed is in KM's, laws are similar to ours, and I bet once I spend a bit of time there personally, I'll be able to relate each Aus State to each Canadian Province in a similar fashion as you are with the US.

Or I guess I could ask the misses.

$1:

Eh, I wasn't JUST referring to the burning of Washington. I was referring to the entire conflict, from the Americans burning York, the invasion of Niagara, etc etc

Either way, blowing each other up isn't what I would consider as a positive relation, regardless if it was the US against British Regulars or Canadian Militia/Natives.

$1:

The Australians were able to sustain the same recovery convoys as the Canadian/American effort? Impossible, because we were the main ones shipping the goods over. Australia has a part of the war, no doubt, but we were working with the Americans mostly, and not with the Australians to help supply Great Britain. The Australians mostly were the British side of the Pacific War.

Are you confused with WWII?

"In terms of human suffering the first world war was the most traumatic in Australia’s history. From a population of less than 5 million, an army of almost 417,000 men was raised between 1914 and 1918; over 330,000 of them served overseas. 58,132 servicemen died and 156,228 were gassed, wounded or taken prisoner of war."

http://www.parle.co.uk/genealogy/australia-ww1.htm

Canada sent over a little over 619,000 by the end of 1918 from a population of 7,879,000.

In comparison, the US sent over 4,355,000 based on the information I can find.

The Relation still seems closest to Australia, as even they were forced to fight for England like we were.

$1:

Anyway. I'm just saying that Canada relates to the US due to its trade and closeness.

True... but there has been talk in the government over the last couple of years in regards to trading more with Australia.

We already got Tim Tams here... yum

$1:

Sure there are differences, but our history, our economy, and even our culture just snaps into place in the North American jigsaw puzzle. Little chunks of America are in Canada, and vice versa. Australia's influence on Canada is not really there. We relate a bit more on the political side, and statistically, but culturally, economically, and socially we're closer to the USA.

That's the problem, I personally wasn't trying to compare who influences us more, or influence at all.

If considering Australia is its own country with its own identity, and the US is its own country with its own identity, just as Canada, then when comparing apples and oranges to pears, the apple relates closer to the pear. All grow on trees and are fruits, yet looking further into the finer details, closer relations can be found between two over the third.

There are a number of similarities between the US and Canada, but there is clearly enough differences to determine the clear differences between the two nations, which citizens of each clearly stand beside. Taking those differences, adding them up, and stacking them beside other countries in the world, I personally think it's a mere misconception that it's simply easier to relate us to the US because we are next door to them.

I've spent the last 7 or so years, on and off, debating and talking to many from the US on a number of topics, and when comparing them to views I debate with from Canadians or Australians or even people from the UK, there are clear divides.

I actually think the UK and the US are more closer to one another then Canada is.... but I guess that's getting beyond the topic.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I dunno... I talk to the misses and she says that besides the environment being opposite, the roads being opposite and people seem a bit more friendlier in the sense that everybody excuses or apologizes way too much, there's hardly any real differences to her.... oh yeah and not having to worry about things biting, stinging, stabbing, slashing you with poison or venom and dying.

And I think the environment and terrain being opposite in such equal terms is a relation. Canada is a hell of a lot colder, a vast area of our terrain is harsh for living in.... Australia is a hell of a lot hotter and a vast area of their terrain is harsh for living in as well.

[Praxius]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

Praxius Praxius:

Now here's a head scratcher.... What US State would Newfoundland relate to closest?

Alaska. Both are separated from the rest of the country by anoter nation and large epanses of water. Both are a little wacked in the head, both are on the frontier, etc.

Makes sense

[Praxius]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Actually a more appropriate comparison would be Canada and New Zealand. The Australian character is more like that of the Americans.

If one was comparing that way and adding in New Zealand, perhaps, however I was mainly focusing on 3 choices rather then four in order to make the comparisons a little more interesting.

Unfortunatly, New Zealand has less relation in the areas I was pointing out to Canada, population, size, terrain, environment.

But speaking of New Zealand, anybody ever hear of Nova Scotia's ties to New Zealand?