[Diogenes]

MAY ? <br /> <br /> how aboot (sic) mayday mayday mayday<br /> http://www.pulsetc.com/article.php?sid=2416<br /> <br /> http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james43.htm<br /> <br />

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Diogenes] MAY ? <br /> <br /> how aboot (sic) mayday mayday mayday<br /> http://www.pulsetc.com/article.php?sid=2416<br /> <br /> http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james43.htm<br /> <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> It is always an opinion. We don't know the full story. That said, if anything is than this is.

[Marcarc]

There is no such thing as a gun used for 'defensive purposes only'. Hell, just about every weapon manufacturer will tell you 'this is for defense'. That means nothing.<br /> <br /> Phalanx guns can also be outfitted to shoot missiles instead of bullets, but whether it is used in Canada is doubtfull. However, bullets have shells, and 4500 rounds per minute is an awful lot of shells.<br /> <br /> As for 'still using it', the article on the commercial jets using it as ballast says something about its use. If it is declared safe enough then it could be used anywhere. There's an awful lot of it to get clear of. Anybbody still trusting the government to protect our health via the environment is REALLY naive.

[Armyguy]

[QUOTE BY= Marcarc] There is no such thing as a gun used for 'defensive purposes only'. Hell, just about every weapon manufacturer will tell you 'this is for defense'. That means nothing.<br /> <br /> Phalanx guns can also be outfitted to shoot missiles instead of bullets, but whether it is used in Canada is doubtfull. However, bullets have shells, and 4500 rounds per minute is an awful lot of shells.<br /> <br /> As for 'still using it', the article on the commercial jets using it as ballast says something about its use. If it is declared safe enough then it could be used anywhere. There's an awful lot of it to get clear of. Anybbody still trusting the government to protect our health via the environment is REALLY naive.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Once again misinformed. The Phalanx guns are multi barreled. What missle will fit into a 20mm barrel? <br /> The ammo is as follows:APDS Mark 149 - 0.22 lbs. (0.10 kg) <br /> APDS Mark149-2 - 0.22 lbs. (0.10 kg) <br /> APDS Mark 149-4 - 0.22 lbs. (0.10 kg) <br /> APDS ELC Mark 244-0 - 0.33 lbs. (0.15 kg)<br /> If you notest it fires Solid Tungsten Penetrator. This is not DU rds. If it was firing full DU rds they would have a DU at the end. <br /> This is just like the new tank rds NATO fires.<br />

[Marcarc]

REUTERS<br /> "Carroll said Raytheon had provided a demonstrator model of its Sea Ram system, which outfits the Phalanx gun system with rolling airframe missiles instead of bullets, to the British Royal Navy.<br /> <br /> Britain and the United States are due to decide by 2004 if they want to order the adapted Phalanx systems with the rolling airframe missiles, he said. A decision by both governments to retrofit the Phalanx systems could amount to $1 billion in business over 10 to 15 years, he said."<br /> <br /> <br /> If you READ the message you'll note I didn't say the canadian navy HAD this system, only that it exists. As for the story, according to the navy it has admitted to the presence of DU from the shells, it simply maintains that DU is not a danger. <br /> <br /> Here: http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/du-wa ... out_du.htm<br /> <br /> "According to official Pentagon reports, "depleted uranium is used in M-1 Abrams tanks, Phalanx gun systems and some cruise missiles, as well as A-10s, Harriers and other military and civilian aircraft. The Abrams, Bradley fighting vehicles and other weapon systems use ammunition containing DU penetrators." <br /> <br /> <br /> And here: http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Aug1999 ... 08131.html<br /> <br /> DoD Launches Depleted Uranium Training<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> By Linda D. Kozaryn<br /> <br /> American Forces Press Service<br /> <br /> <br /> WASHINGTON -- Beware. Be careful. But don't be overly alarmed. <br /> Depleted uranium, found in some ammunition and armored vehicles, <br /> is a potentially toxic heavy metal, but defense officials say <br /> limited exposure is not dangerous. <br /> <br /> The Defense Department has launched a DoD-wide training <br /> initiative to ensure service members know the pros and cons of <br /> the substance known as "DU."<br /> <br /> "Depleted uranium carries a 'radioactivity tag' that makes some <br /> people nervous," said Dee Dodson Morris, a retired Army chemical <br /> corps colonel and the Lessons Learned Implementation director in <br /> the Office of the Special Assistant for Gulf War Illnesses. <br /> "What we're trying to do is make sure service members understand <br /> the hazard and what they can do to mitigate it."<br /> <br /> The services have incorporated DU awareness training into their <br /> overall training programs. Recruits' basic training now includes <br /> DU instruction, and more advanced training is given to such <br /> service members as nuclear, biological and chemical specialists <br /> and others likely to encounter DU. <br /> <br /> Depleted uranium is used in M-1 Abrams tanks, Phalanx gun <br /> systems and some cruise missiles, as well as A-10s, Harriers and <br /> other military and civilian aircraft. The Abrams, Bradley <br /> fighting vehicles and other weapon systems use ammunition <br /> containing DU penetrators.<br /> <br /> DU is used in armor because its superior strength, hardness and <br /> density can defeat conventional armor-piercing ammunition. By <br /> the same token, ammunition with needle-like DU penetrators <br /> punches right through conventional armor. <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> We can assume that the department of defense and/or the pentagon have some idea of what they are talking about.<br />

[Armyguy]

The US Army does not use DU rds anymmore in their 25mm Bradley or 120 MM M1 ammo.

[Marcarc]

I'm not sure what you're point is. This is the relevant quote:<br /> <br /> "The Canadian Navy fired thousands<br /> of toxic, radioactive uranium-238 shells into a target range near Halifax. Fishermen in the area say they had no idea depleted uranium (DU) was scattered over the fishing grounds. The Navy says the ammunition is safe, but nuclear experts disagree. Some say it could pose a serious hazard.<br /> Until about a year ago the shells were fired from a Phalanx gun, which used shells made of DU, a by-product of the nuclear industry. The hardened shells are used to penetrate armor plating.<br /> The guns were installed on Canadian ships just prior to the Gulf War.<br /> Over the years the Navy fired six tons of DU shells, mostly into a fishing area near Eastern Passage, off Halifax Harbor. The Navy says the depleted uranium is safe. “From our viewpoint we have not dumped nuclear waste, that’s stretching it,” Lt. Cmdr<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> So what you are saying is that this story is a lie?

[Armyguy]

What I'm saying is the US does not use DU rds in their 25/120MM rds. I've spent 2 yrs in Ft Knox and have deployed with them. And so far have not seen any DU type rds. And has anyone checked their watch, it has 2 Grays+ ( the new term for Rads)for the hands to light up and the back light.

[Diogenes]

Nuclear War Crimes <br /> BY ANGELA MORANO <br /> <br /> <br /> I am neither a scientist nor a writer of fiction, but the notion that a government would knowingly dust human beings with radioactive heavy metal powder or place them in toxic zones without warning resembles a science fiction nightmare come true. Yet this is just what the Department of Defense (DOD) is doing. Prioritizing weapon strength over long-term health and environmental considerations, the U.S. is using material that has poisoned our own troops, dumped thousands of tons of this toxic waste at home and abroad, and broken international law in the process. Meanwhile, the controversial nature of this material has led the U.S. government to deny its devastating side effects and long-term consequences. The substance is a heavy metal radioactive material called Uranium 238 (U-238), also known as Depleted Uranium or DU. <br /> <br /> The word “depleted” is a misnomer. U238 is made as a byproduct of the uranium enrichment process. When natural uranium is enriched, less than one percent of what is produced is used by nuclear power plants or conventional fissionable weapons. Once “depleted” of the usable material, the 99 percent that is leftover is called DU. It is still approximately half as radioactive as natural uranium with a half-life of over 4 billion years. Reports also indicate that small amounts of other, more radioactive isotopes are also present in this waste, which is very expensive if the industry is to handle it according to regulations. <br /> It seems the idea to first use this radiological waste in military operations was the brainchild of the Manhattan Project. The “Groves Memo,” written in 1943, describes the potential for “radioactive gas” to be used as a lethal weapon. It also warned that the substance should not come in contact with our soldiers. So if you want to buy the Bay Bridge, you can also buy the story now being told by the DOD that DU won’t harm you. <br /> <br /> Mainstream Media Coverage <br /> <br /> On September 29, 2004, the New York Daily News reported that many of the 442nd Military Police, a National Guard unit, returned home sick after four months in Samawah, Iraq. Frustrated with the way the military was handling their concerns, they went to the press. There they found a voice in Juan Gonzales, and the New York Daily News paid for them to be properly tested through Dr. Durakovic, the director of Uranium Medical Research Center (UMRC). Previously, he was the chief of Nuclear Medicine at the VA in Maryland until his reports on DU were no longer acceptable. Several of the vets tested positive for Depleted Uranium heavy metal poisoning and Gerard Matthew had even fathered a daughter with a birth deformity. <br /> <br /> The only other mainstream investigative media coverage was in December 2004, when Vanity Fair published a comprehensive article on Depleted Uranium, “Weapons of Self-Destruction,” by David Rose. In this article, Staff Sergeant Raymond Ramos is described as a physically fit former-New York City cop who began to suffer from constant headaches, fatigue, urinary problems, respiratory difficulties, and even sleep apnea after being stationed on a makeshift base in Iraq where fierce tank battles had taken place. In the article, Rose explains that these are the same symptoms that have been reported in soldiers returning from the First Gulf War and the Kosovo War, labeled Gulf War Syndrome and Balkans Syndrome respectively, diseases that many scientists now attribute to DU. <br /> <br /> Then in February 2005, Arthur Bernklau, Executive Director of Veterans for Constitutional Law in New York, reported a little known VA statistic that of the 580,400 soldiers in the First Gulf War, 11,000 are now dead and 325,000 were on permanent disability as of the year 2000. This means that 56 percent of the returning veterans have permanent medical problems in contrast to 10 percent in Vietnam. DU is worse than Agent Orange! Where is the Outrage?! <br /> <br /> Almost twice as dense as lead, DU is used in the ballasts of some commercial planes for balance and in protective armor plating on Abrams Tanks. Placed as solid cores in the tips of bombs and bullets, DU greatly enhances penetrating ability. It is also pyrophoric, which means the friction created when it is deployed will cause it to spontaneously combust, burning and releasing micron-size isotopes that can be inhaled or ingested. According to the “Wakayama Report” by Army Colonel and physician Junro Wakayama, these particles can lodge in your body, emitting radiation and heavy metal toxins that compromise your immune system and can cause neurological or organ damage, cancers, and genetic mutations. Several thousand tons have been dispersed all over the Gulf, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Bosnia, and elsewhere in our recent military operations, in addition to all the areas where it has been mined, manufactured, and tested in the past decades. <br /> <br /> The National Lead Industry in Albany, New York, used to manufacture DU weapons in the 70’s. During that time, they would throw the leftover shavings in their chimney fires. This unorthodox and unregulated gross mishandling of DU and other chemicals finally led to their closure in 1984. The Department of Defense has been in charge of site remediation and the cleanup of as many as 56 neighboring properties at a cost to date of over $155 million. For twenty years, an active neighborhood group has been vigilant and pursuing compensation for health effects they believe are the consequences of NL practices. <br /> <br /> Many Naval facilities, such as the San Francisco Naval Shipyard at Hunters Point, whole islands, like Vieques, Puerto Rico, and most recently Schofields Barracks, an Army base in Hawaii, have become playgrounds for the Military to conduct experiments and dump their waste. According to a study by the Puerto Rican Health Department for 1990-1994, the cancer rate at Vieques was 27 percent above Puerto Rico’s average. <br /> <br /> In 2003, I heard Major Doug Rokke speak at a community center. Commissioned by the military, he established a DU protocol, Army Regulation 700-48. Yet, he continues to tell us, the protocol is being dutifully ignored. My first reaction to Rokke’s words was disbelief, which later turned to anger the more I understood the issue. Many members of Rokke’s DU cleanup crew have since died. Like so many soldiers, they were initially unaware of what they had been exposed to. <br /> <br /> Since this meeting, with great sorrow I began to show everyone, including my congressman, Maurice Hinchey, pictures from http://www.idust.net of sick children with birth deformities. To raise attention about DU concerns on a federal level, a proposal has been made with the support of Congressman Hinchey to sponsor a press conference and briefing in Washington on DU. Hinchey is waiting for the right moment and a popular groundswell from others across the country to ignite a fire under their Representatives. So, if you are moved to take some action, let’s ignite some fires. Call your Representatives and the Progressive Caucus and let them know that you want Congress to break the silence on DU and hold a press conference and briefing. <br /> <br /> Legislative Reaction <br /> <br /> The latest initiative is to get a DU Bill passed in every state. Louisiana and Connecticut have already done so and others are following. Since they have jurisdiction over their National Guard, these states are passing a bill that establishes a task force and protocol to register, “properly” test, and help provide medical care to those in the National Guard who are concerned that they have been exposed to toxins and DU. Assemblyman Jeffrey Dinowitz is introducing a similar bill in New York this February. Thinking globally, acting locally still works. <br /> <br /> Other nations, such as the UK, France, and Russia, have purchased DU weapons. The European Parliament has called for a moratorium on all DU munitions. San Francisco-based international lawyer Karen Parker has addressed the UN and is quick to point out that DU will continue to indiscriminately affect people and the environment for generations to come. These “dirty bombs” have been pronounced illegal and criminal and are already outlawed by international standards. <br /> <br /> For those who feel that none of this affects them: the World Health Organization announced global cancer will increase 50 percent by 2020. In the words of Chief Seattle, “All things share the same breath—the beast, the tree, the man...the air shares its spirit with all life it supports.” Let’s expose DU as the omnicidal killer that it is and stop this criminal nuclear nightmare! <br /> <br /> In Peace and Hope, <br /> <br /> Angela Morano, [email protected] <br /> <br /> Angela is a member of the No DU Coalition of the Hudson Valley <br /> <br /> For more information on Depleted Uranium: http://www.traprockpeace.org.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Marcarc] I'm not sure what you're point is. This is the relevant quote:<br /> <br /> "The Canadian Navy fired thousands<br /> of toxic, radioactive uranium-238 shells into a target range near Halifax. Fishermen in the area say they had no idea depleted uranium (DU) was scattered over the fishing grounds. The Navy says the ammunition is safe, but nuclear experts disagree. Some say it could pose a serious hazard.<br /> Until about a year ago the shells were fired from a Phalanx gun, which used shells made of DU, a by-product of the nuclear industry. The hardened shells are used to penetrate armor plating.<br /> The guns were installed on Canadian ships just prior to the Gulf War.<br /> Over the years the Navy fired six tons of DU shells, mostly into a fishing area near Eastern Passage, off Halifax Harbor. The Navy says the depleted uranium is safe. “From our viewpoint we have not dumped nuclear waste, that’s stretching it,” Lt. Cmdr<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> So what you are saying is that this story is a lie? [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> It poses a slight risk at most to most people, even those who eat fish caught in the area...that is likely why they are not that worried about it--more testing is needed I'm sure.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Diogenes] Nuclear War Crimes <br /> BY ANGELA MORANO <br /> <br /> <br /> I am neither a scientist nor a writer of fiction, but the notion that a government would knowingly dust human beings with radioactive heavy metal powder or place them in toxic zones without warning resembles a science fiction nightmare come true. Yet this is just what the Department of Defense (DOD) is doing. Prioritizing weapon strength over long-term health and environmental considerations, the U.S. is using material that has poisoned our own troops, dumped thousands of tons of this toxic waste at home and abroad, and broken international law in the process. Meanwhile, the controversial nature of this material has led the U.S. government to deny its devastating side effects and long-term consequences. The substance is a heavy metal radioactive material called Uranium 238 (U-238), also known as Depleted Uranium or DU. <br /> <br /> The word “depleted” is a misnomer. U238 is made as a byproduct of the uranium enrichment process. When natural uranium is enriched, less than one percent of what is produced is used by nuclear power plants or conventional fissionable weapons. Once “depleted” of the usable material, the 99 percent that is leftover is called DU. It is still approximately half as radioactive as natural uranium with a half-life of over 4 billion years. Reports also indicate that small amounts of other, more radioactive isotopes are also present in this waste, which is very expensive if the industry is to handle it according to regulations. <br /> It seems the idea to first use this radiological waste in military operations was the brainchild of the Manhattan Project. The “Groves Memo,” written in 1943, describes the potential for “radioactive gas” to be used as a lethal weapon. It also warned that the substance should not come in contact with our soldiers. So if you want to buy the Bay Bridge, you can also buy the story now being told by the DOD that DU won’t harm you. <br /> <br /> Mainstream Media Coverage <br /> <br /> On September 29, 2004, the New York Daily News reported that many of the 442nd Military Police, a National Guard unit, returned home sick after four months in Samawah, Iraq. Frustrated with the way the military was handling their concerns, they went to the press. There they found a voice in Juan Gonzales, and the New York Daily News paid for them to be properly tested through Dr. Durakovic, the director of Uranium Medical Research Center (UMRC). Previously, he was the chief of Nuclear Medicine at the VA in Maryland until his reports on DU were no longer acceptable. Several of the vets tested positive for Depleted Uranium heavy metal poisoning and Gerard Matthew had even fathered a daughter with a birth deformity. <br /> <br /> The only other mainstream investigative media coverage was in December 2004, when Vanity Fair published a comprehensive article on Depleted Uranium, “Weapons of Self-Destruction,” by David Rose. In this article, Staff Sergeant Raymond Ramos is described as a physically fit former-New York City cop who began to suffer from constant headaches, fatigue, urinary problems, respiratory difficulties, and even sleep apnea after being stationed on a makeshift base in Iraq where fierce tank battles had taken place. In the article, Rose explains that these are the same symptoms that have been reported in soldiers returning from the First Gulf War and the Kosovo War, labeled Gulf War Syndrome and Balkans Syndrome respectively, diseases that many scientists now attribute to DU. <br /> <br /> Then in February 2005, Arthur Bernklau, Executive Director of Veterans for Constitutional Law in New York, reported a little known VA statistic that of the 580,400 soldiers in the First Gulf War, 11,000 are now dead and 325,000 were on permanent disability as of the year 2000. This means that 56 percent of the returning veterans have permanent medical problems in contrast to 10 percent in Vietnam. DU is worse than Agent Orange! Where is the Outrage?! <br /> <br /> Almost twice as dense as lead, DU is used in the ballasts of some commercial planes for balance and in protective armor plating on Abrams Tanks. Placed as solid cores in the tips of bombs and bullets, DU greatly enhances penetrating ability. It is also pyrophoric, which means the friction created when it is deployed will cause it to spontaneously combust, burning and releasing micron-size isotopes that can be inhaled or ingested. According to the “Wakayama Report” by Army Colonel and physician Junro Wakayama, these particles can lodge in your body, emitting radiation and heavy metal toxins that compromise your immune system and can cause neurological or organ damage, cancers, and genetic mutations. Several thousand tons have been dispersed all over the Gulf, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Bosnia, and elsewhere in our recent military operations, in addition to all the areas where it has been mined, manufactured, and tested in the past decades. <br /> <br /> The National Lead Industry in Albany, New York, used to manufacture DU weapons in the 70’s. During that time, they would throw the leftover shavings in their chimney fires. This unorthodox and unregulated gross mishandling of DU and other chemicals finally led to their closure in 1984. The Department of Defense has been in charge of site remediation and the cleanup of as many as 56 neighboring properties at a cost to date of over $155 million. For twenty years, an active neighborhood group has been vigilant and pursuing compensation for health effects they believe are the consequences of NL practices. <br /> <br /> Many Naval facilities, such as the San Francisco Naval Shipyard at Hunters Point, whole islands, like Vieques, Puerto Rico, and most recently Schofields Barracks, an Army base in Hawaii, have become playgrounds for the Military to conduct experiments and dump their waste. According to a study by the Puerto Rican Health Department for 1990-1994, the cancer rate at Vieques was 27 percent above Puerto Rico’s average. <br /> <br /> In 2003, I heard Major Doug Rokke speak at a community center. Commissioned by the military, he established a DU protocol, Army Regulation 700-48. Yet, he continues to tell us, the protocol is being dutifully ignored. My first reaction to Rokke’s words was disbelief, which later turned to anger the more I understood the issue. Many members of Rokke’s DU cleanup crew have since died. Like so many soldiers, they were initially unaware of what they had been exposed to. <br /> <br /> Since this meeting, with great sorrow I began to show everyone, including my congressman, Maurice Hinchey, pictures from http://www.idust.net of sick children with birth deformities. To raise attention about DU concerns on a federal level, a proposal has been made with the support of Congressman Hinchey to sponsor a press conference and briefing in Washington on DU. Hinchey is waiting for the right moment and a popular groundswell from others across the country to ignite a fire under their Representatives. So, if you are moved to take some action, let’s ignite some fires. Call your Representatives and the Progressive Caucus and let them know that you want Congress to break the silence on DU and hold a press conference and briefing. <br /> <br /> Legislative Reaction <br /> <br /> The latest initiative is to get a DU Bill passed in every state. Louisiana and Connecticut have already done so and others are following. Since they have jurisdiction over their National Guard, these states are passing a bill that establishes a task force and protocol to register, “properly” test, and help provide medical care to those in the National Guard who are concerned that they have been exposed to toxins and DU. Assemblyman Jeffrey Dinowitz is introducing a similar bill in New York this February. Thinking globally, acting locally still works. <br /> <br /> Other nations, such as the UK, France, and Russia, have purchased DU weapons. The European Parliament has called for a moratorium on all DU munitions. San Francisco-based international lawyer Karen Parker has addressed the UN and is quick to point out that DU will continue to indiscriminately affect people and the environment for generations to come. These “dirty bombs” have been pronounced illegal and criminal and are already outlawed by international standards. <br /> <br /> For those who feel that none of this affects them: the World Health Organization announced global cancer will increase 50 percent by 2020. In the words of Chief Seattle, “All things share the same breath—the beast, the tree, the man...the air shares its spirit with all life it supports.” Let’s expose DU as the omnicidal killer that it is and stop this criminal nuclear nightmare! <br /> <br /> In Peace and Hope, <br /> <br /> Angela Morano, [email protected] <br /> <br /> Angela is a member of the No DU Coalition of the Hudson Valley <br /> <br /> For more information on Depleted Uranium: http://www.traprockpeace.org.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> Are the British also using DU in Iraq? I assume only under the U.S. umbrella.....Hopefully other nations have not reasons to--I assume Russia won't waste it on the Chechen crisis, and France, why would they use it?

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Marcarc] There is no such thing as a gun used for 'defensive purposes only'. Hell, just about every weapon manufacturer will tell you 'this is for defense'. That means nothing.<br /> <br /> Phalanx guns can also be outfitted to shoot missiles instead of bullets, but whether it is used in Canada is doubtfull. However, bullets have shells, and 4500 rounds per minute is an awful lot of shells.<br /> <br /> As for 'still using it', the article on the commercial jets using it as ballast says something about its use. If it is declared safe enough then it could be used anywhere. There's an awful lot of it to get clear of. Anybbody still trusting the government to protect our health via the environment is REALLY naive.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> It is true that most defensive systems can also be used offensively, but the Phalanx is very impractical to be used in this manner. It is WAY to heavy for a soldier to carry, and therefore must be mounted on a ship or some other vehicle like a LAV, tank--it is too heavy for an aircraft.<br /> <br /> Yes the Phalanx fires a lot of bullets, but we were talking about the Canadian Navy, and what will a guns that fires bullets be used for out on the water??? Killing the fish?? It is not powerful enough to sink a modern ship, and at most could maybe shoot a person but it is not designed for that.<br /> <br /> On a vehicle the phalanx would still likely be more of a defensive than offensive system, as other guns are designed specifically for offensive usage.<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/mk-15.htm">here</a><br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/ciws11.jpg">here</a><br />

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Perturbed] [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] There is no such thing as a gun used for 'defensive purposes only'. Hell, just about every weapon manufacturer will tell you 'this is for defense'. That means nothing.<br /> <br /> Phalanx guns can also be outfitted to shoot missiles instead of bullets, but whether it is used in Canada is doubtfull. However, bullets have shells, and 4500 rounds per minute is an awful lot of shells.<br /> <br /> As for 'still using it', the article on the commercial jets using it as ballast says something about its use. If it is declared safe enough then it could be used anywhere. There's an awful lot of it to get clear of. Anybbody still trusting the government to protect our health via the environment is REALLY naive.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> It is true that most defensive systems can also be used offensively, but the Phalanx is very impractical to be used in this manner. It is WAY to heavy for a soldier to carry, and therefore must be mounted on a ship or some other vehicle like a LAV, tank--it is too heavy for an aircraft.<br /> <br /> Yes the Phalanx fires a lot of bullets, but we were talking about the Canadian Navy, and what will a guns that fires bullets be used for out on the water??? Killing the fish?? It is not powerful enough to sink a modern ship, and at most could maybe shoot a person but it is not designed for that.<br /> <br /> On a vehicle the phalanx would still likely be more of a defensive than offensive system, as other guns are designed specifically for offensive usage.<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/mk-15.htm">here</a><br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/ciws11.jpg">here</a><br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> From the above FAS site, this interesting article claims the U.S. Navy has also tested this toxic substance in fishing ground--great move. <br /> <br /> Toxic ammo is tested in fish areas<br /> U.S. Navy uses depleted uranium in coast waters; activists may go to court<br /> <br /> By LARRY JOHNSON<br /> SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER FOREIGN DESK EDITOR<br /> <br /> The Navy routinely tests a weapon by firing radioactive, toxic ammunition in prime fishing areas off the coast of Washington, raising concerns from scientists, fishermen and activists. <br /> <br /> The Navy insists the use of depleted uranium off the coast poses no threat to the environment. Depleted uranium, known as DU, is a highly dense metal that is the byproduct of the process during which fissionable uranium used to manufacture nuclear bombs and reactor fuel is separated from natural uranium. DU remains radioactive for about 4.5 billion years.<br /> <br /> Cmdr. Karen Sellers, a Navy spokeswoman in Seattle, also said there are no hazards to the servicemen and women on board the ships, adding that "all crew members are medically monitored" to ensure their safety.<br /> <br /> But a coalition of Northwest environmental and anti-war activists say they are considering seeking an injunction to halt the tests. <br /> <br /> "The Navy is willing to put us all at risk, including its own sailors, to improve its war-fighting capabilities," said Glen Milner, of Ground Zero Center for Nonviolent Action, one of the groups weighing a suit to stop the Navy tests. Milner received information on the Navy's tests of depleted uranium ammunition off the coast in a memo released in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.<br /> <br /> No major studies apparently have been done on the effects of such weapons in the ocean. Where depleted uranium munitions have been used in combat on land, such as in Iraq during the Gulf War, or in tests on land, such as Vieques island in Puerto Rico, they not only give off relatively small amounts of radiation, but produce toxic dust that can enter the food chain. <br /> <br /> Seattle environmental attorney David Mann asked, "How can the Navy fire depleted uranium rounds and spread radioactive material into prime fishing areas off our coast?"<br /> <br /> Sellers, however, said that only 400 to 600 rounds would be fired during a typical test at sea. And even though these tests have been going on since 1977, she said Navy environmental experts say that the DU dissolves very slowly in the ocean.<br /> <br /> "It would be too diluted to distinguish from natural background uranium in the sea water," she said.<br /> <br /> The weapon in question is the Phalanx, also known as a Close In Weapons System. Such a system is on virtually all U.S. Navy combat ships. It includes radar and rapid-fire 20mm guns. The guns are capable of firing up to 3,000 or 4,500 rounds per minute of depleted uranium, a superhard material prized for its armor-piercing ability. <br /> <br /> The Defense Department says the military uses the munitions "because of DU's superior lethality against armor and other hard targets."<br /> <br /> Although depleted uranium emits radiation, a second, potentially more serious hazard is created when a DU round hits a hard target. As much as 70 percent of the projectile can burn on impact, creating a firestorm of ceramic DU oxide particles. The residue of this firestorm is an extremely fine ceramic uranium dust that can be spread by the wind, inhaled and absorbed into the human body and absorbed by plants and animals, becoming part of the food chain.<br /> <br /> Once in the soil, DU can pollute the environment and create up to a hundredfold increase in uranium levels in ground water, according to the U.N. Environmental Program<br /> <br /> The Defense Department said DU munitions are "war reserve munitions; that is, used for combat and not fired for training purposes," with the exception that DU munitions may be fired at sea for weapon calibration purposes."<br /> <br /> Another Navy spokeswoman described those firings at sea as "routine" and says they occur regularly off both the East and West coasts.<br /> <br /> "If the firing is with DU, it's probably with what we call the Close in Weapons System, and it is routine," said Lt. Brauna Carl, a Navy spokeswoman in Washington, D.C., and a former gunnery officer who has worked with DU weapons.<br /> <br /> When asked if the tests of DU rounds posed any health hazards, she replied, "God, I hope not. All I know is I haven't started glowing."<br /> <br /> But Milner says, "It just makes sense that if DU can contaminate land and get into the food chain, then it would do the same thing in the sea."<br /> <br /> Robert Alverson, president of the Fishing Vessel Owners Association in Seattle, said he was "very troubled" to hear that the Navy was using depleted uranium off the coast of Washington. "I don't like what I'm hearing," he said.<br /> <br /> The Navy memo obtained by Milner described a June 2001 operation by the USS Fife, an Everett-based destroyer. The memo said the Fife would conduct gunnery operations with depleted rounds in what was described as areas W237C and W237F. <br /> <br /> These areas are designated Navy Warning Areas and are about 25-100 miles off the coast between Ocean Shores and Ozette, south of Neah Bay, according to Milner. <br /> <br /> "These are certainly prime fishing areas" for some salmon, flounder and other bottomfish, Alverson said. "It is folly to be testing anything in this area that might contaminate the natural food supply."<br /> <br /> "How would the Navy feel about eating fish caught there?" he asked. Alverson said even the perception that fish might be contaminated could scare consumers and have dire consequences.<br /> <br /> "If any species ever turns up with radiation, it would be devastating to the fishing industry," he said.<br /> <br /> Leonard Dietz, a research associate with the private, non-profit Uranium Medical Research Centre in Canada and the United States, said that the degree of environmental contamination the DU rounds will cause in sea water depends on what kinds of targets were hit and how much DU was fired.<br /> <br /> "Corrosion of the DU by sea water would occur over a long time," said Dietz, who with Asaf Durakovic, director of the center, and research associate Patricia Horan, published a landmark study on inhaled DU that showed Gulf War veterans still had DU in their urine nine years after the war.<br /> <br /> "The end result is that the ocean becomes a dumping ground for the spent DU penetrators and they add to the (natural) uranium content of sea water," he said.<br /> <br /> The Ground Zero Center for Nonviolent Action is one of five peace and environmental organizations already involved in a federal lawsuit against the Navy for violations of the Endangered Species Act over the Trident D-5 nuclear missile upgrade at the Bangor submarine base.<br /> <br /> <br /> DEPLETED URANIUM HAZARDS<br /> <br /> The Pentagon has sent mixed signals about the effects of depleted uranium, saying there have been no known health problems associated with the munition. At the same time, the military acknowledges the hazards in an Army training manual, which requires that anyone who comes within 25 meters of any DU-contaminated equipment or terrain wear respiratory and skin protection, and says that "contamination will make food and water unsafe for consumption."<br /> <br /> Some researchers and several U.S. veterans organizations say they suspect depleted uranium of playing a role in Gulf War Syndrome, the still-unexplained malady that has plagued hundreds of thousands of Gulf War veterans........<br /> <br /> <a href="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/103402_fife09.shtml">here</a>

[Spanky]

[QUOTE]The Pentagon has sent mixed signals about the effects of depleted uranium, saying there have been no known health problems associated with the munition. At the same time, the military acknowledges the hazards in an Army training manual, which requires that anyone who comes within 25 meters of any DU-contaminated equipment or terrain wear respiratory and skin protection, and says that "contamination will make food and water unsafe for consumption."[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> [quote]<br /> Depleted Uranium: America and Britain's "Dirty Bombs"<br /> <br /> by Dr. Doug Rokke<br /> <br /> While U.S. and British military personnel continue using uranium munitions-- America's and England's own "dirty bombs"-- U.S. Army, U.S. Department of Energy, and U.S. Department of Defense officials continue to deny that there are any adverse health and environmental effects as a consequence of the manufacture, testing, and/or use of uranium munitions to avoid liability for the willful and illegal dispersal of a radioactive toxic material - depleted uranium.<br /> <br /> They arrogantly refuse to comply with their own regulations, orders, and directives that require United States Department of Defense officials to provide prompt and effective medical care "all" exposed individuals [Medical Management of Unusual Depleted Uranium Casualties, DOD, Pentagon, 10/14/93, Medical Management of Army personnel Exposed to Depleted Uranium (DU) Headquarters, U.S. Army Medical Command 29 April 2004), and section 2-5 of AR 70-48]. They also refuse to clean up dispersed radioactive Contamination as required by Army Regulation- AR 700-48: "Management of Equipment Contaminated With Depleted Uranium or Radioactive Commodities" (Headquarters, Department Of The Army, Washington, D.C., September 2002) and U.S. Army Technical Bulletin- TB 9-1300-278: "Guidelines For Safe Response To Handling, Storage, And Transportation Accidents Involving Army Tank Munitions Or Armor Which Contain Depleted Uranium" (Headquarters, Department Of The Army, Washington, D.C., JULY 1996).<br /> <br /> Specifically section 2-4 of United States Army Regulation-AR 700-48 dated September 16, 2002 requires that:<br /> <br /> (1) "Military personnel "identify, segregate, isolate, secure, and label all RCE" (radiologically contaminated equipment).<br /> <br /> (2) "Procedures to minimize the spread of radioactivity will be implemented as soon as possible."<br /> <br /> (3) "Radioactive material and waste will not be locally disposed of through burial, submersion, incineration, destruction in place, or abandonment" and (4) "All equipment, to include captured or combat RCE, will be surveyed, packaged, retrograded, decontaminated and released IAW Technical Bulletin 9-1300-278, DA PAM 700-48" (Note: Maximum exposure limits are specified in Appendix F)[/quote]<br /> <a href="http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=ROK20050829&articleId=882">America and Britain's dirty bombs</a><br><br /> [quote]Depleted Uranium as a Weapon of War<br /> by Rosalie Bertell, Ph.D., GNSH<br /> <br /> SNIP<br /> <br /> Because the radiation dose to the person depends on the strength of the source of radiation, and the time duration of the exposure, this ceramic aerosol formation is important. Ceramic (glass) is highly insoluble in the normal lung fluid, and when inhaled, this ceramic particulate will remain for a long time in the lungs and body tissue before being excreted in urine. <B>The Rand report, which was commissioned by the US government in response to criticisms of the use of DU in weapons, failed to note this nasty form of insoluble DU which distinguishes it from the uranium dust in the mining or milling experience. This property means the uranium and its decay products will remain inside the body longer, thereby increasing the local alpha particle radiation dose to tissue.</B><br /> <br /> Much of the ceramic DU aerosol is in respirable sized particles -10 micrometer and less in diameter. It stays in the lungs for upwards of two years. The uranium oxide, which was discussed in the Rand report, had a one-year half-life in lungs. Most natural uranium contamination in the human body comes via food and to a lesser extent from drinking water, not via the lungs. Ingested uranium is excreted in feces, basically never entering into the human blood and lymph system. In contrast, the DU ceramic aerosol released in war entered directly into lymph and blood through the lung-blood barrier and circulated throughout the whole body. All internal contamination is excreted through either sweat or urine.<br /> <br /> DU is a very powerful alpha particle emitter, with each particle carrying a force of about 4.2 MeV (million electron volts). It requires only 6 to 10 eV (electron volts) to break the DNA or other large molecules in the body. This long stay of DU from weapons within the body can now be demonstrated through 24-hour urine analysis. The presence of DU eight years after the Gulf War exposure, means that the internal organs: lung, lymph glands, bone marrow, liver, kidney, and immune system have experienced significant localized radiation damage. Testing of urine for both veterans of the Gulf War and citizens of Iraq has confirmed this long-term exposure to DU.<br /> <br /> Women (because of their radiation sensitive breast and uterine tissue) and children (because their bones are growing, thus able to pick up more DU than adults, and because they have a long expected life-span in which the cancers with long latency periods can develop) will be most at risk from the delayed DU weapon action.[/quote]<br /> <br /> <A HREF="http://www.iicph.org/docs/DU_Human_Rights_Tribunal.htm">Depleted Uranium as a Weapon of War</A>

[Spanky]

The video "Beyond Treason" is now posted at google video. It shows that going back to WWII days there is an established history of the US using it's soldiers and troops as guinea pigs by exposing them to hazardous conditions without adequate protection and without proper medical follow up. Some of the situations it mentions are the intentional exposure of troops to radiation from above ground nuclear testing, unapproved medical vaccines, exposure to the chemical defoliant Agent Orange in Vietnam, and a host of chemical exposures which are still not officially acknowledged from Gulf War 1 as well as depleted uranium. Some of the troops suffering from Gulf War syndrome are interviewed for the documentary. Major Doug Rokke PhD, the former head of the army's depleted uranium project at the time of Gulf War 1 provides commentary for the segment on DU along with Lauren Moret.<br /> <br /> You can watch the video at this link (1hr 28min):<br /> <br /> <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7994353294099338929">Beyond Treason</a><br />