[BartSimpson]

Clinton is getting killed in the media this morning and by both liberals and conservatives. Seems Clinton threw a temper tantrum at his own assistants while still in the Fox studio and the word got out about it. There's also a rumor that cameras were rolling as Bill had his melt-down. From what I'm hearing so far, the liberal media has turned on Clinton.

[ridenrain]

Not here.. I understand most are out buying blue dresses.

[bootlegga]

Well, since Bush hasn't caught Bin Laden yet, either, he's hasn't done a much better job than Clinton did. The head of the worldwide hydra that is Al-Qaeda is still at large, despite the US deploying almost 200,000 troops (on the ground) to the Middle East. All Clinton had was a couple of cruise missile strikes.

Really, which is the greater failure?

[bootlegga]

Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:

This whole song and dance Clinton gave in the interview "The entire military was against sending special forces into Afghanistan and refueling by helicopter and no one thought we could do it otherwise…We could not get the CIA and the FBI to certify that Al Qaeda was responsible while I was President." is just bull designed to give his loyal followers something to believe in.

Perhaps you'd prefer another disaster like the attempt to rescue the hostages from Tehran?

[BartSimpson]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Perhaps you'd prefer another disaster like the attempt to rescue the hostages from Tehran?

That was Carter - the retard who got this whole mess going.

[bootlegga]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

That was Carter - the retard who got this whole mess going.

I definitely agree that Carter bollixed everything up, but my point was that the US tried once before to launch a mission into a hostile country without nearby basing and it was a disaster. Something similar could as easily have happened with Clinton's plan to kindap Bin Laden. Personally, I think he should have tried, but he didn't. As powerful as the US is, it isn't capable of doing everything thrust upon it by the NCA. The US didn't have basing rights in any neighbouring countries until AFTER 9/11...

[BartSimpson]

bootlegga bootlegga:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

That was Carter - the retard who got this whole mess going.

I definitely agree that Carter bollixed everything up, but my point was that the US tried once before to launch a mission into a hostile country without nearby basing and it was a disaster. Something similar could as easily have happened with Clinton's plan to kindap Bin Laden. Personally, I think he should have tried, but he didn't. The US didn't have basing rights in any neighbouring countries unitl AFTER 9/11...

No, we had bases in Saudi Arabia before 9/11. I know because I've been there.

[Jaime_Souviens]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:

They're not torturing at Guantanamo, and Abu Gharib was institutional. perps caught and prosecuted. Unfortunate, but when you hold yourself to a higher standard, it's more work.

No one independent has really been to Guantanamo Bay, so really we only have the administartion's word for it, which isn't worth much...

And then there's the black sites. Not to much doubt what's happening there. And then there is Maher Arar.

Right, I should instead believe the New York Times. Their word is so trustworthy.

I'll take the absence of proof of an allegation as sufficient.

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:

The New York Times has already been outed by the White House on that for misrepresenting a classified report.

You mean they printed in before the White House could spin it.

Well, I could adopt your irrationalist path, and believe any allegation at face value.

Shame.

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:

I'm not mad. I'm guaranteed long-term to be vindicated. All I have to do until then is laugh at the Left, not a bad deal.

Well that's true. As an ideologue, you have the luxury of ignoring facts.

Like the fact that things were way better under Clinton.

The economy is in a much better position now than ever under Clinton.

You've skipped the post above on Clinton's avoidance of officials when the time came to make a decision on Bin Laden. Talk about ignoring facts...

[Scape]

Franken on the demotion of Clark

No Free Passes - Keith's Special Comment

$1:

"The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power...

"Power is not a means; it is an end.

"One does not establish a dictatorship to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship.

"The object of persecution, is persecution. The object of torture, is torture. The object of power… is power."

Earlier last Friday afternoon, before the Fox ambush, speaking in the far different context of the closing session of his remarkable Global Initiative, Mr. Clinton quoted Abraham Lincoln’s State of the Union address from 1862.

"We must disenthrall ourselves."

Mr. Clinton did not quote the rest of Mr. Lincoln’s sentence.

He might well have.

"We must disenthrall ourselves and then we shall save our country."

And so has Mr. Clinton helped us to disenthrall ourselves, and perhaps enabled us, even at this late and bleak date, to save our country.

The "free pass" has been withdrawn, Mr. Bush.

Bush Pleads Ignorance on USS Cole

$1:

He asked the President why wouldn't you go after the taliban to get them to kick bin Laden out of Afghanistan. The President told him that no one had told him we had made that threat.

[Jaime_Souviens]

$1:

Clinton knew at the time that his top military and intelligence officials were dragging their feet on going after bin Laden and al Qaeda. He gave up rather than use his authority to force them into action.

Examples are all over Clarke’s book. On page 223, Clarke describes a meeting, in late 2000, of the National Security Council “principals” — among them, the heads of the CIA, the FBI, the Attorney General, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the secretaries of State, Defense. It was just after al Qaeda’s attack on the USS Cole. But neither the FBI nor the CIA would say that al Qaeda was behind the bombing, and there was little support for a retaliatory strike. Clarke quotes Mike Sheehan, a State Department official, saying in frustration, “What’s it going to take, Dick? Who the shit do they think attacked the Cole, fuckin’ Martians? The Pentagon brass won’t let Delta go get bin Laden. Hell they won’t even let the Air Force carpet bomb the place. Does al Qaeda have to attack the Pentagon to get their attention?” ...But the bottom line is that Bill Clinton, the commander-in-chief, could not find the will to order the military into action against al Qaeda, and Bill Clinton, the head of the executive branch, could not find the will to order the CIA and FBI to act. No matter what the former president says on Fox, or anywhere else, that is his legacy in the war on terror.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MDM4N2E1MzU5ZjQ0YTA3YmJiYzEyYjQ2ZDBiNWJlYjE=

[Scape]

$1:

"And for the record, the Bush administration barely paid attention to bin Laden before 9/11, as documented by the 9/11 Commission and other inquiries. On Jan. 26, 2001—six days after Bush’s inauguration—an FBI report for the first time conclusively tied the USS Cole bombing in Yemen to Al Qaeda. A few weeks later, CIA Director George Tenet raised the stakes, calling bin Laden's global terror network "the most immediate and serious threat" to U.S. national security. Yet there was no retaliation for the Cole or any other Al Qaeda attack for eight months—the “principals” did not even hold a meeting on how to deal with the terrorist group—despite Tenet’s increasingly urgent warnings about an Al Qaeda attack in the summer of 2001. Even today, the Bush administration is spending more time, resources and energy on supposed state sponsors of terror, like Iraq, than on the terrorists themselves."

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15002956/site/newsweek/page/2/

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoNpcFR7e64[/youtube]

Daily Show: Bill Clinton vs Fox news

[bootlegga]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

bootlegga bootlegga:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

That was Carter - the retard who got this whole mess going.

I definitely agree that Carter bollixed everything up, but my point was that the US tried once before to launch a mission into a hostile country without nearby basing and it was a disaster. Something similar could as easily have happened with Clinton's plan to kindap Bin Laden. Personally, I think he should have tried, but he didn't. The US didn't have basing rights in any neighbouring countries unitl AFTER 9/11...

No, we had bases in Saudi Arabia before 9/11. I know because I've been there.

Last time I checked, Saudi Arabia didn't border Afghanistan.

That means any flights would have had to overfly Iran or Pakistan to get to Kandahar, where Bin Laden had a safe house. Seeing as how Iran hates the 'Great Satan' and the US cut off defence purchases to Pakistan (F-16s) in 1998 (after their nuclear tests), neither alternative was likely very appealing.