[DerbyX]

StuntmanMike StuntmanMike:

Actually, that's not correct. The NDP support dropped during the 90's, from an all time high of 43 seats under Ed Broadbent in the 1988 election, to the point they were struggling just to keep official party status under Alexa Macdonaugh a few years later. John Turner could certainly claim that the NDP was a factor in the Liberal struggles of his era, but Chretien didn't have any such problem.

9 seats in 93, 21 seats in 97 and 13 seats in 2000 for the NDP. Thats a significant amount when its your votes being drained. 43 for the NDP in 88 helped mulroney in that they didn't go to the Libs leaving him with a majority.

No matter how you spin it, you still get the left vote splitting every single election so you can't claim that vote splitting gave the Libs a majority on an equal footing with how Harper got his minority.

StuntmanMike StuntmanMike:

Absolutely right. The Tories and NDP were relentless in their attacks on Martin. It was all he could do to keep his government functioning, let alone enact new policies. But really, that's their job isn't it?

No it isn't. Thats entirely why we are in this position. Do you really think that in a minority position the oppositions only goal is to defeat the govt regardless of what they propose.

A minority govt means that the voting public does not support any one party and they must work togeather to govern. To expect anything less is simply moronic and will give us nothing but an impotent govt of bickering simps.

StuntmanMike StuntmanMike:

I don't think he'll go to any of them for support. More likely, he'll simply govern as he pleases and force the Liberals to support him, knowing full well they're in no place to fight an election for the next couple of years.

Then Harpers arrogance will be his undoing. Its his responsibility to try and make govt work. If he doesn't then yet another election in short order will be put squarely on his shoulders and the public will hold him accountable.

StuntmanMike StuntmanMike:

The Libs are in a tough spot. It would have been much better for them had the Tories won a clear Majority. That would have allowed them to go away, lick their wounds, choose a new leader, re-build their finances, all while allowing a pit-bull like Scott Brison or Gerard Kennedy to take shots at Harper in Question Period every day. In four years, they could return with a new platform, an invigorated party, and challenged for the big prize.

The rest of us will not trust Harper with a majority for a reason. He does not deserve it. I'm willing to let him govern with a minority as long as he gets support from one other party to do it.

StuntmanMike StuntmanMike:

Now, they're going to have to keep rolling over everytime Harper threatens them, further destroying Caucus morale, and further eroding their image as a legitimate opposition to the government. How can they legitimately claim to be an alternative government when they've voted with the Cons on every major initiative of their mandate?

I don't think this time round they will do that. I think a new leader will realize that it was a mistake and simply not give in and I think a new election forced on us by Harper will see alot of Greens and NDP supporters realizing that a strong Liberal showing is the only way to defeat Harper.

People are not going to give Harper a majority out of exhaustion for the same reasons he did not win it in his third attempt. He simply doesn't deserve it.

[kenmore]

ridenrain ridenrain:

This comment sums it up best:

"3 days ago every Liberal in the country was telling us that Dion was the best choice and deserved our votes. Today they are saying that he is not even fit to lead the Liberal party."

Is it about ideas and a vision for Canada or is it just about winning and staying in power?

M.Dion is more than qualified to lead this country.. more qualified than harper by a mile.. This is politics you dont get elected and your out.. harper will be next because of 2 minority governments. and the people dont like him...

The problem with Canada is we have become apathetic to government.. the "they are all the same" ie liars and cheaters and in it for themselves played a big part in poor voter turn out. things have to change. we have to move from this type of thinking.. there is no clear mandate to any party. and no PM rules alone ( except for the autocrat harper).. so it isnt a one man show.. If the libs elect Justin Trudeau leader he will appeal to the young and the female voters... so what I am saying here is we have made hollywood our guage as to who we elect and that is wrong.. we criticized china for lipsinking and putting a beautiful girl mouthing the words for someone who really had a voice.. my point is it happened here..

[2Cdo]

kenmore kenmore:

ridenrain ridenrain:

This comment sums it up best:

"3 days ago every Liberal in the country was telling us that Dion was the best choice and deserved our votes. Today they are saying that he is not even fit to lead the Liberal party."

Is it about ideas and a vision for Canada or is it just about winning and staying in power?

M.Dion is more than qualified to lead this country.. more qualified than harper by a mile.. This is politics you dont get elected and your out.. harper will be next because of 2 minority governments. and the people dont like him...

The problem with Canada is we have become apathetic to government.. the "they are all the same" ie liars and cheaters and in it for themselves played a big part in poor voter turn out. things have to change. we have to move from this type of thinking.. there is no clear mandate to any party. and no PM rules alone ( except for the autocrat harper).. so it isnt a one man show.. If the libs elect Justin Trudeau leader he will appeal to the young and the female voters... so what I am saying here is we have made hollywood our guage as to who we elect and that is wrong.. we criticized china for lipsinking and putting a beautiful girl mouthing the words for someone who really had a voice.. my point is it happened here..

Kenmore if the Libs elect PET's spawn as leader you will get Canada split up. He would be the worst person the Libs could choose for that role.

[DerbyX]

Sins of the father should not be visited upon the son.

Justin Trudeau is a man in his own right and deserves to be judged by his merits rather then his fathers. Its fundementaly unfair to do otherwise.

[uwish]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Oh stop being so bitter!

I'm not being bitter, I'm simply pointing out that 15 years after the PCs imploded, the right of centre has yet to produce a majority, even with the most fractured left wing we've seen in an even longer spn of time.

$1:

The Tories were up 1% from last time.

Up by percentage, but down in absolute votes. They simply lost fewer votes than the Liberals. Real achievement.

$1:

As Derby pointed out, the Liberals won large majorities with very similar polling figures.

Right, so why couldn't the Conservatives?

$1:

The least shite party won.

Least shite is still shite.

$1:

Now get over it and stop crying.

I'm not crying. I'm laughing at the fact that even with your Glorious Leader Harper, the Liberals's non-leader Dion, a sizeable green party tht won no seats but diverted votes away from the Liberals, and teh best NDP showing since '88, you still come up 12 seats shy of a majority.

ok lets spin this another way

your liberal leader managed to drive the liberal votes / mps to it's lowest point in Canadian history. Including losses in Ont, BC. The liberal seats is down by what? 19 CPC up by 16?

[ridenrain]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Sins of the father should not be visited upon the son.

Justin Trudeau is a man in his own right and deserves to be judged by his merits rather then his fathers. Its fundementaly unfair to do otherwise.

On face value, I agree with that but little Skippy always keeps reminding us of their deep and undying love for castro and other such lefty icons. That won't play these days.

So far his only proven qualification is the ability to buy a membership and his last name.

[snuggles61]

Well if Bob Rae tries to run for leader I'm sure his statement of 'Dion being the best choice for leader' will haunt him,but then again who knows given how short Canadian memories are.Harper couldn't even secure a majority against a fairyish pipsqueek like Dion,serves him right for all his broken promises I suppose.

[fifeboy]

ridenrain ridenrain:

This comment sums it up best:

"3 days ago every Liberal in the country was telling us that Dion was the best choice and deserved our votes. Today they are saying that he is not even fit to lead the Liberal party."

Is it about ideas and a vision for Canada or is it just about winning and staying in power?

Don't know much about politics, eh!

[HyperionTheEvil]

kenmore kenmore:

ridenrain ridenrain:

This comment sums it up best:

"3 days ago every Liberal in the country was telling us that Dion was the best choice and deserved our votes. Today they are saying that he is not even fit to lead the Liberal party."

Is it about ideas and a vision for Canada or is it just about winning and staying in power?

M.Dion is more than qualified to lead this country.. more qualified than harper by a mile.. This is politics you dont get elected and your out.. harper will be next because of 2 minority governments. and the people dont like him...

The problem with Canada is we have become apathetic to government.. the "they are all the same" ie liars and cheaters and in it for themselves played a big part in poor voter turn out. things have to change. we have to move from this type of thinking.. there is no clear mandate to any party. and no PM rules alone ( except for the autocrat harper).. so it isnt a one man show.. If the libs elect Justin Trudeau leader he will appeal to the young and the female voters... so what I am saying here is we have made hollywood our guage as to who we elect and that is wrong.. we criticized china for lipsinking and putting a beautiful girl mouthing the words for someone who really had a voice.. my point is it happened here..

You complain about people being apathetic when the lat major government scandal was Adscam

And Justin Trudeau? , by all mean go ahead and elect him, all the better for Candians in General because the CPC will have even more seats

[DerbyX]

ridenrain ridenrain:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Sins of the father should not be visited upon the son.

Justin Trudeau is a man in his own right and deserves to be judged by his merits rather then his fathers. Its fundementaly unfair to do otherwise.

On face value, I agree with that but little Skippy always keeps reminding us of their deep and undying love for castro and other such lefty icons. That won't play these days.

So far his only proven qualification is the ability to buy a membership and his last name.

In other words you would agree with my philosophy if he weren't a Liberal.

I don't you know anything about him or have the faintest idea about his political career and are just assuming he is riding daddies coat tails.

In fact he so far seems a very bright and personable young man with the ability for flair his father showed.

[HyperionTheEvil]

Guys

At the end of the Day with all the Liberal/NDP spin doctors here. The reality is that the CPC is going to be the next government. Further the Liberal Party will be going into civil war mode next and Jack Layton will mumble something or other. The Bloc will fo on pretending they're there for any other reason other than a paycheck.

When the time comes for a confidence vote, and it won;t be long. They'll all frop thier pants like usual. Which is execellent for the CPC for the simple reason is that the Liberals and NDP would be terrified to send Canadians back to the ballot boxes.

Let the Liberals and the NDP yammer on how good they really are, how bad they thing Harper is. When the time comes to vote on laws they;ll do what they always do, remove thier spines and vote for the legislation

Have fun lefties

[snuggles61]

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

Guys

At the end of the Day with all the Liberal/NDP spin doctors here. The reality is that the CPC is going to be the next government. Further the Liberal Party will be going into civil war mode next and Jack Layton will mumble something or other. The Bloc will fo on pretending they're there for any other reason other than a paycheck.

When the time comes for a confidence vote, and it won;t be long. They'll all frop thier pants like usual. Which is execellent for the CPC for the simple reason is that the Liberals and NDP would be terrified to send Canadians back to the ballot boxes.

Let the Liberals and the NDP yammer on how good they really are, how bad they thing Harper is. When the time comes to vote on laws they;ll do what they always do, remove thier spines and vote for the legislation

Have fun lefties

Lets see Harper start keeping some promises them.That's why I didn't vote for him this time around.

[HyperionTheEvil]

snuggles61 snuggles61:

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

Guys

At the end of the Day with all the Liberal/NDP spin doctors here. The reality is that the CPC is going to be the next government. Further the Liberal Party will be going into civil war mode next and Jack Layton will mumble something or other. The Bloc will fo on pretending they're there for any other reason other than a paycheck.

When the time comes for a confidence vote, and it won;t be long. They'll all frop thier pants like usual. Which is execellent for the CPC for the simple reason is that the Liberals and NDP would be terrified to send Canadians back to the ballot boxes.

Let the Liberals and the NDP yammer on how good they really are, how bad they thing Harper is. When the time comes to vote on laws they;ll do what they always do, remove thier spines and vote for the legislation

Have fun lefties

Lets see Harper start keeping some promises them.That's why I didn't vote for him this time around.

At this point it doesnt matter squat who you voted for, if they think he broke a promise. The Lefties can topple the government and we can all go back to the polls.

Anytime

[snuggles61]

Well he broke his promise on scrapping the gun registry and he has no intention of keeping his word,I saw nothing at ALL about that issue this time around.

[dino_bobba_renno]

DerbyX DerbyX:

[quSins of the father should not be visited upon the son.

Justin Trudeau is a man in his own right and deserves to be judged by his merits rather then his fathers. Its fundementaly unfair to do otherwise.

I had a hate for the guy pretty much from day one, mainly because of the name, but I've seen him action a few times since talking on radio and TV. I have to say as much as I can't even stand PET's name even being brought up in a conversation Justin impressed me. I think Derb is right on this on, give the guy a chance (even if he is a Liberal ), maybe he won't make the same mistakes his father did.