[Public_Domain]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

And just because it's 19th century thinking doesn't mean anything wrong with it. Should we also ditch internal combustion engines, heavy industry, and mechanised farming just because they came about from 19th century thinking?

We've had a lot of innovation, including in politics, that has rendered the monarchy obsolete. We live in an elective representative democracy.

We have nuclear-powered submarines and I'm expected to love steam boats.

I swear loyalty to no symbols. I don't swear loyalty to the flag. I don't swear loyalty to the authorities.

I swear loyalty to Canadians.

[Public_Domain]

My MP represents my community. I reject him as the symbol of Kelowna.
When I say I love Kelowna, I do not say "I love Ron Cannan".

[Unsound]

Reject all you want. Doesn't make a difference. SHe's still the Queen of Canada, and all legal authority in this country flows from the institution that is her. Even the labour board you're trying to get help from depends on her for it's authority.

Fortunately for you, the law and order the descends from the authority protects you whether you reject it or not. You're fortunate enough to be born here with all the privilege that entails. For those who were less fortunate and now wish to live here... take the oath. It's who we are. It's part of what makes this a great place. It's not the only way to be, but it is our way. Feel free to find somewhere more suitable if swearing loyalty to the country you hope to live in is too much to ask.

[Jabberwalker]

You must have had real fun with Stock Day.

[Public_Domain]

Unsound Unsound:

Reject all you want. Doesn't make a difference. SHe's still the Queen of Canada, and all legal authority in this country flows from the institution that is her. Even the labour board you're trying to get help from depends on her for it's authority.

Fortunately for you, the law and order the descends from the authority protects you whether you reject it or not. You're fortunate enough to be born here with all the privilege that entails. For those who were less fortunate and now wish to live here... take the oath. It's who we are. It's part of what makes this a great place. It's not the only way to be, but it is our way. Feel free to find somewhere more suitable if swearing loyalty to the country you hope to live in is too much to ask.

Sheesh, the love it or leave it thing has to be the most fundamentally childish thinking there can be. Can't have an argument at all without the chest thumping "get the fuck out" mantra.

Fortunately for me it isn't the 19th century, because you would likely have me executed for treason for my insolence.

[Canadian_Mind]

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

And just because it's 19th century thinking doesn't mean anything wrong with it. Should we also ditch internal combustion engines, heavy industry, and mechanised farming just because they came about from 19th century thinking?

We've had a lot of innovation, including in politics, that has rendered the monarchy obsolete. We live in an elective representative democracy.

We have nuclear-powered submarines and I'm expected to love steam boats.

I swear loyalty to no symbols. I don't swear loyalty to the flag. I don't swear loyalty to the authorities.

I swear loyalty to Canadians.

Canadians are represented by the crown, which is represented by the queen in the oath.

We elect people to manage the country using the power given to them by the crown. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. By making the person holding power completely impartial, the people using it shouldn't be corruptible. If they do become corrupt, it is the power holders job to disallow the corrupt government from using the power anymore. It's a brilliant system, the only thing wrong with it is that the person holding the power isn't a born and raised Canadian.

And nuclear-powered submarines are steam boats, dummy.

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

Sheesh, the love it or leave it thing has to be the most fundamentally childish thinking there can be. Can't have an argument at all without the chest thumping "get the fuck out" mantra.

Fortunately for me it isn't the 19th century, because you would likely have me executed for treason for my insolence.

The get the fuck out mantra is directed to those who wish to come here but don't want to take the oath. For better or for worse, we're stuck with you.

[Public_Domain]

Why the god damn symbols? What's so fallible about the symbol symbol of "the Canadian people"? Why swear to any one person at all, even if they are totally useless and non-threatening?

Why must I love the authority to love Canadians? Why must I love the flag to love the land? Are you people unable to separate the representatives from your actual passions? Being unable to respect the representatives is grounds for deportation?

[Gunnair]

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

Loyalty to the queen = loyalty to your fellow countrymen?

19th century thinking here dude.

Someone failed civics class, dude.

[Public_Domain]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

And nuclear-powered submarines are steam boats, dummy.

Honestly, the more I read this sentence, the more I'm disappointed in myself

[Canadian_Mind]

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

Why the god damn symbols? What's so fallible about the symbol symbol of "the Canadian people"? Why swear to any person, even if they are totally useless and non-threatening?

Why must I love the authority to love Canadians? Why must I love the flag to love the land? Are you people unable to separate the representatives from your actual passions? Being unable to respect the representatives is grounds for deportation?

You (well, the immigrants) must swear loyalty to the authority because, like it or not, the law of the land is what makes the land. If there was no law, there would be no country. To give you an idea of that, in a land without that authority, "the crown," there is a high probability someone would have shot you for some reason or another, and there would be no consequences for them to suffer having done that.

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

And nuclear-powered submarines are steam boats, dummy.

Honestly, the more I read this sentence, the more I'm disappointed in myself

I'm glad you saw the humour in it.

[Public_Domain]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

Loyalty to the queen = loyalty to your fellow countrymen?

19th century thinking here dude.

Someone failed civics class, dude.

I've only heard of civics classes in American movies. Social Studies? My best class (also the most worthless)

[Gunnair]

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

Why the god damn symbols??

You have a hammer and sickle in your avatar...again.

[Canadian_Mind]

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

]I've only heard of civics classes in American movies. Social Studies? My best class (also the most worthless)

Then despite doing well in it you didn't understand the value of it. Which is unfortunate, considering most of your core beliefs revolve around concepts studied in social studies.

[Xort]

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

I swear loyalty to Canadians.

I agree, you damn dirty red.

Unsound Unsound:

Reject all you want. Doesn't make a difference. SHe's still the Queen of Canada, and all legal authority in this country flows from the institution that is her.

Yeah the legal fiction that pays lawyers wages that's true.

But in the real world, legal authority comes from the people of the nation.

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

Honestly, the more I read this sentence, the more I'm disappointed in myself

That depends if you think your TV and computer are steam powered if you get your power from coal.

[Public_Domain]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

You (well, the immigrants) must swear loyalty to the authority because, like it or not, the law of the land is what makes the land. If there was no law, there would be no country. To give you an idea of that, there is a high probability someone would have shot you for some reason or another, and there would be no consequences for them to suffer having done that.

Why have a convoluted and misleading oath to a bunch of symbols if we don't really care about any of the symbols other than that they represent law and authority? Why not do away with the magic and just get a promise to follow the Canadian law?

What I'm saying is, if you threw "your fellow Canadians" and "the land" in there, I'd think it'd be a half-decent oath to be forcing people to take to live here.