[Newsbot]

Title: Liberals warned of a declining Canada
Category: Misc CDN
Posted By: Hyack
Date: 2010-03-27 22:15:53
Canadian

[KorbenDeck]

Makes sense that as people live longer they would have to work longer. Recall that when pensions were first brought in the average person wasn't expected to collect more than 1 year of pension before they died, now people are collecting decades of pensions instead of just a few years.

As for raising Canadians incomes, unless Canada breaks the wal-mart mentality that will not happen. We will always outsource hundreds of good paying jobs for a couple high paying jobs and a tonne of min wage jobs.

[Canadian_Mind]

Yea, despite the notion of more jobs being taken by older members of society, I'd support raising the required age of retirement from 65 to 75. the law would be instant, but the actual legislation would be grandfathered in so that the age is increased slowly over 20 years, at a rate of increase of 1 every 2 years. Keeps it fair to people who have just been forced to retire, but still occurs within a reaonable timeframe.

[KorbenDeck]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

Yea, despite the notion of more jobs being taken by older members of society, I'd support raising the required age of retirement from 65 to 75. the law would be instant, but the actual legislation would be grandfathered in so that the age is increased slowly over 20 years, at a rate of increase of 1 every 2 years. Keeps it fair to people who have just been forced to retire, but still occurs within a reaonable timeframe.

I don't see jobs being taken by older members of society when we don't have a high enough birth rate to replace them when they retired at any age. So realistically we need to find a way to keep people in the work force for as long as safely possible until we find a way to correct our birth rate to a sustainable level.

[Meadowlark]

$1:

Dodge said it's "terribly important" that Canadian policy makers and business take steps to increase productivity in order to raise Canadians' incomes and provide enough tax revenues "to cover the increased costs of a caring society" in the years ahead.

Wow pay more taxes that is his solution? Not to mention stating people should save more for themselves to make up for what is taken I mean "given" to our wonderful caring society. How about the government get out of the social engineering business and let people work and save for themselves? Maybe if 30% - 50% of people's income was not confiscated from them they would have more to save and also to give to whatever charitable causes and values they personally agree with. But instead everyone looks to the government for every solution when they are mostly the problem.

[Proculation]

In Quebec, that question is VERY present.

We are the most endebted province in Canada. If we take all our debts, including our share of the federal, we are the 5th most endebted state after Iceland, Greece, Italy and Japan.

The government is negotiating with public services unions and the due date is 31st of March. They demand 12% more wages for the 3 next years.

The budget is in 1 week and we are awaiting to see what will be in it.
We already know the TVQ (PST) will go up 1%, the gas taxes 10¢, tuition fees also.

But we still lack 5 BILLIONS to balance the budget. The government refuse to cut in the system even if we pay something like 20% more than Ontario for the same services.

And we all know the health care will be a problem in the next years, that's 50% of Quebec's budget.

I understand Dodge, we need to do something but not only tax the people. We have to cut the "fat" in the system we built.

[CommanderSock]

Proculation Proculation:

In Quebec, that question is VERY present.

We are the most endebted province in Canada. If we take all our debts, including our share of the federal, we are the 5th most endebted state after Iceland, Greece, Italy and Japan.

The government is negotiating with public services unions and the due date is 31st of March. They demand 12% more wages for the 3 next years.

The budget is in 1 week and we are awaiting to see what will be in it.
We already know the TVQ (PST) will go up 1%, the gas taxes 10¢, tuition fees also.

But we still lack 5 BILLIONS to balance the budget. The government refuse to cut in the system even if we pay something like 20% more than Ontario for the same services.

And we all know the health care will be a problem in the next years, that's 50% of Quebec's budget.

I understand Dodge, we need to do something but not only tax the people. We have to cut the "fat" in the system we built.

Gaining weight is always easier than losing it.

[andyt]

Meadowlark Meadowlark:

$1:

Dodge said it's "terribly important" that Canadian policy makers and business take steps to increase productivity in order to raise Canadians' incomes and provide enough tax revenues "to cover the increased costs of a caring society" in the years ahead.

Wow pay more taxes that is his solution? Not to mention stating people should save more for themselves to make up for what is taken I mean "given" to our wonderful caring society. How about the government get out of the social engineering business and let people work and save for themselves? Maybe if 30% - 50% of people's income was not confiscated from them they would have more to save and also to give to whatever charitable causes and values they personally agree with. But instead everyone looks to the government for every solution when they are mostly the problem.

If the government was not confiscating that money, we would have no medicare, CPP, free education or any other services. Libertarianism always sounds so sweet, but I don't think it builds much of a society. Show me one modern society that works that way?

[KorbenDeck]

andyt andyt:

Meadowlark Meadowlark:

$1:

Dodge said it's "terribly important" that Canadian policy makers and business take steps to increase productivity in order to raise Canadians' incomes and provide enough tax revenues "to cover the increased costs of a caring society" in the years ahead.

Wow pay more taxes that is his solution? Not to mention stating people should save more for themselves to make up for what is taken I mean "given" to our wonderful caring society. How about the government get out of the social engineering business and let people work and save for themselves? Maybe if 30% - 50% of people's income was not confiscated from them they would have more to save and also to give to whatever charitable causes and values they personally agree with. But instead everyone looks to the government for every solution when they are mostly the problem.

If the government was not confiscating that money, we would have no medicare, CPP, free education or any other services. Libertarianism always sounds so sweet, but I don't think it builds much of a society. Show me one modern society that works that way?

Like roads.

[andyt]

Jenn1985 Jenn1985:

Surely Canadians are aware that private sector non-unionized wages have stagnated for over 30 years? Why then the sudden emphasis on not enriching the public sector now? They should tie public sector wage increases to that experienced by the private sector. They should of done that 30 years ago.

The average wage in Canada has steadily increased over the years. But the median wage has stagnated since Ronnie Raygun came to power. That means a few people are getting richer, while everybody else is treading water or going under. What has kept people from realizing this has bee cheap, easy credit and cheap stuff from china. But somehow everybody has come to accept they need to work like dogs to afford a home of their own - didn't used to be that way.

Rather than tying civil service to private (fair enough, the bargain was the swivel servants got paid less but had job security and good benefits) we need a revolution in Canada that re-invigorates the middle class so they are thriving, instead of the minority at the top. And change conditions so there are no working poor. If someone puts in an honest 40 hours or work, they should be getting a living wage for that. That's how you build a civil society, one where most people feel they are getting a fair deal. I think this is eroding in Canada.

[kenmore]

Taxes are a given. We have to have a good tax system to carry those immigrants who come here and get on the dole and the old age pensions etc having invested zero in the country. Problem is we have more people taking than giving. And your right there is a fine line between the lower middle class and poverty. If you need 75% of your working earnings to survive in your old age lots of luck. If we live beyond 74 yrs. ..were screwed.

[Canadian_Mind]

Why can't we push things associated with 65, like mandatory age of retirement, to 75 over the next 20 year period? Would keep more people in the workforce and lower the overall number of pensioners. Ultimately the senior citizen of 2030 would still have the same average number of retirement years to look forward too as the retiree of 2000: 10 years

[Lemmy]

Who the hell wants to still be working at age 65, let along 75? Hell, I plan to hang 'em up at 55.

[Canadian_Mind]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Who the hell wants to still be working at age 65, let along 75? Hell, I plan to hang 'em up at 55.

And such will be the downfall of the system. People too lazy to work for what they think they deserve.

Now, I don't think that a 65 year old should be working the factory floor, but a management position is certainly well within his abilities. Frankly the less trim and fit 20 year olds sitting behind the desk, the better.

[Bruce_the_vii]

Years ago I read in a busines magazine that the sad fact is blue collar workers are ready to retire at age 65, that their bodies give out and there longevity is in question. When you get to be 50 your peers start getting problems with their health, dropping dead even. Average life expectancy is 76, some such, so actually around 65 you are looking at the abyss.