[Dancing]

<br /> I agree. The media is not making the connection for the public to Lockheed Martin. At all.<br /> <br /> They are focussed on the Government (status quo) perspective.<br /> <br /> Some of us need to submit letters-to-editors.<br /> <br /> Put our time where our mouths are!

[Corey Richard]

Im Canadian, For Fuck Sakes I WILL NOT put up with this. I am boycotting completely, even if that means jail. I want Canada to stay Canada. I love this country. But if it is to become the united states of canada some day then when that day comes i will no longer love my country. Now i will fight to preserve my homeland. VIVE LE CANADA!

[kouan]

I counted myself out in the last census (2001) which was about a year after I read the book "IBM and the Holocaust" , http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/home.php<br /> <br /> I am not directly making the association of the Canadian census and what happened in Nazi Germany, but it does underline the potential abuses of information (correct or not) in the wrong hands. Frankly I don't believe that same bridge would be crossed again, especially here, but for every single request that I get to post a nugget of information about myself, I balance that request with my own gut instinct of how that information will be used.<br /> <br /> In 2001, I received several calls from the census returning officer after writing "no thank you" on the form in black magic marker and returning the form in advance of the census. The calls ranged from polite, to firm, to threatening me with jail time, a fine, or both. I welcomed the fine and I awaited that certain knock on the door... for several years. In fact, nothing happened.<br /> <br /> This year, I received my census form and just recycled it - pretty much for the same reason. I just have to feel comfortable with surrendering the information requested with the potential use and abuse of my data. About a week after the census, I received my first call. "This is ____ from the Canadian Census. Is this the person living at (###) 123-#### ?". I politely told them that I could not give that information out over the telephone and hung up. Each day, at the same time, my phone would ring and ring (of course, anyone who knows me, knows that i never answer that phone anyway). <br /> <br /> The last time that I answered the phone i heard " Hi, this is _____ from the Canadian..". I never heard the rest because I simply hung up. They have since stopped calling.<br /> <br /> I have been lurking in this forum since census day and have been watching with interest. If you believe everything that you read, there were only 50 people who did not return their census forms in 2001 (depends on the juridiction I guess). If so, I am one of those people.<br /> <br /> My fundimental belief on this is that I need to only surrender enough of my own information that allows me to keep my liberty and my privacy as a citizen, but to keep the government functioning. My income is reported 100%, I pay all of my taxes, and I tell the various government levels where I live - and if they want my library card number, I will think about it. However, as a citizen, the line needs to be drawn at some point. For me, that point is the census.<br /> <br /> Democracy has to include the right to say 'no' or 'no thank you'. And as indicated in 2001, my answer to the census takers is still the same. Thanks, but no thanks.

[B-verLu-ver]

Welcome Kouan,<br /> <br /> I commend you for valuing your privacy and sticking to your guns on the issue. You said in regards to the state of affairs in the era of Nazi Germany ever happening in this country, "Frankly I don't believe that same bridge would be crossed again, especially here" Do you think the Germans of that era ever believed those things would happen to them? The moment you start believing it couldn't happen, is when it will--and America is well on it's way, with Canada to follow suit. This census is just another excercise in breaking down our resolve. If something is done gradually enough people will never notice--or if they do notice, not a significant number of them will care enough to do something about it. For this issue, the hope now is that enough of us do care and are willing to act upon it.<br /> <br /> Also, not sure where you read the statistic that only 50 people did not return their census in 2001, but as you pointed out it is obviously a lie, because I too was one of them and so were my parents. I believe my sister and her fiancé were as well. Problem is that it is so much more difficult to evade the census this time around. In 2001 all you had to do was throw it out. This time, you throw it out and another one comes, and another and then the door to door visits and the notes left in the mailbox, etc. Next time around it will be armed guards--unless we let them know how we feel now.

[hox]

For the past few weeks, a census worker/manager/supervisor has been trying to get me to complete the survey.<br /> <br /> They have tried the following tactics:<br /> <br /> - left a $5000.00 fine or 6 months jail time warning on the windshield of my truck<br /> - taped a letter outlining that the first 5 people who refused to complete the survey, were be prosecuted<br /> - repeatly pounded on my door, to get me to answer the door<br /> - talked to my neighbours about me<br /> <br /> I should build a fence around my property and get a couple of pitbulls. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/evil.gif' alt='Evil'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/razz.gif' alt='Razz'> <br /> <br /> How can they prosecute anyone if they do not know the names of the people living at an address?<br /> <br /> Until I see something with my name on it, it goes into the blue box.

[4Canada]

I thought harrassment was against the law? I considered getting a restraining order taken out against Census Canada as their job was finished on May 16th after all that was their "snapshot" date, anything spent after that is stolen tax dollars.

[DL]

Just to share my experience to date. I got a long form. I opted for minimal compliance and made sure it wouldn't be scanned. I also answered the bare bones questions about the household occupants but passed on answering the number of rooms in my house, how I heat my house etc. I wasn't brave enough to skip the census altogether so I settled for registering my disapproval just shy of a fine or jail cell. So I hear nothing till last week when I get a call, on my birthday, which they could figure out by the info I DID provide, and now they were trolling for the answers I didn't provide. I declined, to answer any new questions, and asked the statscan employee, to verify that she had the names, ages, dates of birth and sex of the occupants. She asked three times if I was refusing to answer the census. I replied "NO" each time referring her first to the fact that I had provided Statscan with the "basic census" data. Second by expressing concern for why statscan needed to know how many rooms are in my house, to which I received no answer. Third I, ignored the question and asked her to fill in a note for me on the comment section I had left blank with: "It is not acceptable for money to go from my household into the hands of Lockheed Martin, a weapons manufacturer". She agreed to write the comment in and then said she had to warn me that "her supervisor would be calling me". So even if they get basic head count data, they still aren't satisfied, big surprise. They will get that info out of me just shy of a fine or jail cell but it's going to cost them a lot more than just one phone call. The upside of the call is that I got to add the LM objection, I was too timid to include at first and later regretted.

[DL]

Just to share my experience to date. I got a long form. I opted for minimal compliance and made sure it wouldn't be scanned. I also answered the bare bones questions about the household occupants but passed on answering the number of rooms in my house, how I heat my house etc. I wasn't brave enough to skip the census altogether so I settled for registering my disapproval just shy of a fine or jail cell. So I hear nothing till last week when I get a call, on my birthday, which they could figure out by the info I DID provide, and now they were trolling for the answers I didn't provide. I declined, to answer any new questions, and asked the statscan employee, to verify that she had the names, ages, dates of birth and sex of the occupants. She asked three times if I was refusing to answer the census. I replied "NO" each time referring her first to the fact that I had provided Statscan with the "basic census" data. Second by expressing concern for why statscan needed to know how many rooms are in my house, to which I received no answer. Third I, ignored the question and asked her to fill in a note for me on the comment section I had left blank with: "It is not acceptable for money to go from my household into the hands of Lockheed Martin, a weapons manufacturer". She agreed to write the comment in and then said she had to warn me that "her supervisor would be calling me". So even if they get basic head count data, they still aren't satisfied, big surprise. They will get that info out of me just shy of a fine or jail cell but it's going to cost them a lot more than just one phone call. The upside of the call is that I got to add the LM objection, I was too timid to include at first and later regretted.

[claytonrumley]

After all this time waiting and reading other people's experiences I was expecting them to show up and attempt to bully me into compliance with threats of fines and jail time and lost funding for Manitoba. I was waiting and waiting and waiting. But they never came.<br /> <br /> Until today.<br /> <br /> Naturally, my wife and I were attempting to move a heavy piece of furniture that was, at the time the doorbell rang, blocking access to the front door. I had to leave my wife holding the furniture while I ran to the back door to call the person to the back. She started off with some spiel about needing me to fill out my census since I would've got one on May 16th, and asked if this was a good time to get it filled out.<br /> <br /> I explained that we were currently moving furniture, but that didn't matter since we were boycotting the census due to LM's involvement. She said ok, and didn't question what LM was or anything else. She looked as though she were about to say more, but I jumped in with "however, I am willing to tell you the ages and genders of the people who live here". She agreed without complaint and took down the info. She asked if I would leave a phone number. "Nope," I said, "that's all the information I think Stats Canada should have". I made a point of making her write down on my "census" that we oppose the involvement of LM. Then she left.<br /> <br /> Sorry this is not nearly as entertaining as some of the other stories recounted here. I'll be waiting for a visit from the next level of Gestapo.<br /> <br /> Keep fighting the good fight, everyone.

[FurGaia]

<p><br /> I also sent in our census form. It only asked for name, date of birth, language spoken, filiation and marital status. That's all! I do not understand how they can insist that other types of information be given by some Canadians and not by others!!! I mean they can ask, but they cannot insist. It would be discrimination, wouldn't it?<br /> <br /> Anyway, I filled in the form and added the following in the comment section:<br /> <br /> <i>[We] are participating in this Census UNDER DURESS, AGAINST OUR WILL and AGAINST OUR BETTER JUDGMENT because there are other people than ourselves involved. <br /> <br /> We both wish, however, to express our extremely strong opposition to have Lockheed Martin participate in the Canadian census (pls see attached documents).<br /> <br /> On a personal note, in filing this form, I am failing myself and my principles. I have always wondered why the Germans did not rise against Hitler. As of today, I will never ask that again. LM = Hitler! And I failed to rise against it!</i><br /> <br /> It was all a bit redundant and melodramatic but that's how we felt and that's what we wrote. It was also very distressing. There are two other persons living in our household and we did not know whether they would be in trouble or not. None of us having the necessary funds to consult a lawyer, we sent in the form.<br /> <br /> In terms of documents, we attached a copy of Vive's <a href="http://census.vivelecanada.ca/letter.php">letter addressed to Bernier</a> as well as the document from <a href="http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/57/Articles/22-28.pdf">Richard Sanders</a> of the Coalition to Oppose the Arms Trade (COAT).<br /> <br /> I did not send this note sooner as I did not want to discourage any of those who are still resisting. I envy you.

[roxyroller]

For anyone who cares to read or listen- unfortunately all those who are reading right now are those who do care and do listen, but it's every one else we need to address- <br /> this census thing burns my ass! I have been paying taxes every yearI work and on time I might add- and if these pricks at census canada can find my number and know my address then why in Heaven can't they find out who lives in my house? Who are they kidding? I am totally willing to go to jail or pay the fine- and our Canadian Government can KISS MY ASS if they think I am stupid enough to blindly fill out a form sent via our "great" postal system which by the way is so secure ( I have had several pieces of my mail opened in the last few months)- or better yet the fact that some joker that you don't even know is calling you to ask you PERSONAL QUESTIONS, and you are supposed to be legally bound to answer- even thought they don't have to prove who they are is bogus! If the census sleepwalkers who like to consider themselves Canadians, think they are doing a good job then they haven't been introduced to 1984 by George Orwell, or perhaps the Handmaids tale by Margaret Atwood- <br /> These census sleepwalkers are the same people who think it's okay to spend millions even billions of dollars on defense while people around the globe and on our own land STARVE TO DEATH! That is sick-<br /> Harper and his entourage who have their nose and head so far up the Amercian President's ass can't see that it is suffocating the people of canada and the world! <br /> The Canadian Census can go fuck themselves as far as I am concerned- and Harper too can go fuck himself which I am sure if he could he would!!!<br /> Gina Perez 403-829-5432<br /> <br />

[Roy_Whyte]

Well now they are getting a little hostile on the phone with me. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'> <br /> <br /> Yet another 'rep' of StatsCan called tonight asking why I sent in a blank form. I asked how good their statistic collection is when they can't even read the full letter size hand written note that was sent with not one, but two blank census forms. Not to mention face to face encounters with two different enumerators, who were both told in no uncertain terms why I was refusing.<br /> <br /> He didn't seem to like that challenge very much and got a little antsy over the phone. Again this schmuck feigned no knowledge of Lockheed Martin at any level, and if I was so scared my information was going to be stolen by the US that I shouldn't be worried at all because Canadian law will protect me. Being that was not even my reason for refusing I told him yet again my specific reasoning for refusal. Yet again on his part he got into the penalties, so I cut him off and told him exactly what he was about to say.<br /> <br /> In the end he said he would have to refer my case to the last stage before 'criminal proceedings' against me. I told him I look forward to that date, told him I had recorded our conversation, and that I and thousands of other Canadians will not give up our rights just because some bureaucrat deemed the census more important than my liberty and personal morality.<br /> <br /> The summer is really heating up. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/biggrin.gif' alt='Big Grin'>

[rearguard]

I just got back from a 3 week vacation. There's another census reminder card in the unread mail pile, and a letter from a StatsCan "Director" signed by C Jerry Page. The letter is obviously a mass mailing duplicate.<br /> <br /> In the letter there's an implied threat that some form of unspecified harm will come to me if I continue to refuse to cooperate: <br /> <br /> "I am taking this opportunity to remind you that it is a legal requirement for every household in Canada to return a completed census questionaire". <br /> <br /> The punishment for refusal is left out of the letter, no doubt intentionally as they are sensitive to the need for uncoerced compliance to ensure data accuracy and cost effectiveness (etc).<br /> <br /> Finally, in bold italicized letters there's a statement that I'll be continually harrased by census staff until I comply!!!<br /> <br /> <i><strong>"Staff will continue to follow up with telephone calls and/or personal visits to the household until the household has complied with this mandatory requirement."</strong></i><br /> <br /> I shudder at the thought of being forever stalked by poorly paid census employees!<br /> <br /> An interesting legal issue to consider, is that a "household" cannot comply with anything or be charged with commiting a criminal act because a household is not a "person" as defined by the Interpretation Act. So, if there's more than one person in a household being targeted by Stats Can, then who among them is refusing? If no one steps up to the plate and refuses to comply, then it is up to Stats Can to first target a "person" so that the person can be charged with the criminal offense of refusing to fill out the census form. Once Stats Can has identified all the members of a household, then there's little need for anyone in the household to fill out the census form (at least not the short version). One can argue that after being identified by Stats Can with refusal, the census requirement has become redundant. The courts however will always side with the state (being a part of the state an funded exclusively by it), so forget about a fair trial.<br /> <br />

[B-verLu-ver]

Hey Rearguard,<br /> <br /> Don't forget that while courts are funded by the state, the state is actually funded by the PEOPLE. And once again, if enough of us speak out and support each other, then "the state" would be insane to even attempt to stir up his hornet's nest. With hundreds of thousands of dissenters in each province the government would be committing political suicide. <br /> <br /> Be cool. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/cool.gif' alt='Cool'>

[Brent Swain]

The census guys are complaining that not enough forms were returned.It appears that the boycott was quite effective.If they want accurate info in the future they will have to be very careful to exclude any involvement by any firm with US connections, or expect the same opposition amoung Canadians.Being typical bureauctrats , they are probably too slow to learn the lesson of this time around.<br /> If they wanted to go to court, they would have to prove beyond the shadow of any reasonable doubt that you didn't send it in and Canada post didn't lose it. <br /> Thus anyone who claims to have sent it in is in the clear ,legally.It would be impossible for anyone to prove you didn't . Ditto any mail in govt requirement.<br /> Some people have been protesting govt bureaucracy by first wipeing their asses with any paper that they send the government , knowing that power hungry bureauctrats will have to handle each piece of paper personally.<br /> Maybe knowing this will leave them feeling a little less smug and arrogant.<br /> Brent