[bootlegga]

Seeing as we've been told recently that the Joint Support Ship (JSS), a combination fleet replenishment ship and army command/control ship, is too expensive, why not build something like the Danish Absalon class Command and Support Ship? http://www.casr.ca/id-danish-naval-projects-absalon.htm

That would allow us to buy a pair of much cheaper refueling ships to replace the existing AORs, while also getting the Army command/control ship into our fleet as well. When not in use by army brass, I think it could also be used as a command and control ship, much like the existing DDHs are. With each one roughly $565 million, we could easily afford three or four of them.

[Streaker]

Whoa. That's pretty interesting.

I'd size them up a little, though - maybe 9000-10000 tons - call them cruisers, and get four of them.

[bootlegga]

Well, they're almost 7,000 tons, given that we squandered our surplus, it's probably all we can afford.

I'd like to see them with ice-strengthen hulls. Imagine being able to drop a fully equipped company in Resolute in the middle of winter...that would be amazing! No one could dispute our Arctic capabilities then.

[Streaker]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Well, they're almost 7,000 tons, given that we squandered our surplus, it's probably all we can afford.

I'd like to see them with ice-strengthen hulls. Imagine being able to drop a fully equipped company in Resolute in the middle of winter...that would be amazing! No one could dispute our Arctic capabilities then.

Yeah, ice strengthened hulls should be a given. I was thinking of upsizing them mainly because the article states that they don't have full sensor suites.

They are surprisingly well-armed, though.

[SigPig]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Well, they're almost 7,000 tons, given that we squandered our surplus, it's probably all we can afford.

I'd like to see them with ice-strengthen hulls. Imagine being able to drop a fully equipped company in Resolute in the middle of winter...that would be amazing! No one could dispute our Arctic capabilities then.

An intersting ship and seems like a good buy. However retrofitting like you are suggesting would seriously escalate cost. anytime a piece of equipment is updated like that price tends to rise far beyond the resulting benfits warrant. Good find though.

[Chumley]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Well, they're almost 7,000 tons, given that we squandered our surplus, it's probably all we can afford.

I'd like to see them with ice-strengthen hulls. Imagine being able to drop a fully equipped company in Resolute in the middle of winter...that would be amazing! No one could dispute our Arctic capabilities then.

We were doing that with hercs long before now.

[Canadian_Mind]

I think its the idea of dropping off the whole lot at once rather than piece by piece.

Anyways, I don't like ship, nor do i like idea of combining AOR with Command and control or as a battlegroup transport ship.

[Chumley]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

I think its the idea of dropping off the whole lot at once rather than piece by piece.

Anyways, I don't like ship, nor do i like idea of combining AOR with Command and control or as a battlegroup transport ship.

You mean at once as in using just one ship? We can drop a company all at once with equipment using probably 4 hercs. I don't know the fuel/maintences logistics compared to one ship, but it would be a faster deployment.

[bootlegga]

Chumley Chumley:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Well, they're almost 7,000 tons, given that we squandered our surplus, it's probably all we can afford.

I'd like to see them with ice-strengthen hulls. Imagine being able to drop a fully equipped company in Resolute in the middle of winter...that would be amazing! No one could dispute our Arctic capabilities then.

We were doing that with hercs long before now.

This ship could actually carry vehicles and arty, not just skidoos and Rangers with WW2 rifles.

[Canadian_Mind]

Chumley Chumley:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

I think its the idea of dropping off the whole lot at once rather than piece by piece.

Anyways, I don't like ship, nor do i like idea of combining AOR with Command and control or as a battlegroup transport ship.

You mean at once as in using just one ship? We can drop a company all at once with equipment using probably 4 hercs. I don't know the fuel/maintences logistics compared to one ship, but it would be a faster deployment.

Don't really knwo about maintinence and such, but i would think it depends on if you are using an old herc or a new herc, and it would depend on the ship aswell.

Also, you wouldn't fit all the support elements, kit, food, and ammo for sustained deployment onto 4 hercs. The battle would be over in less than an hour when the troops run out of bullets, with no arty or heavy weapon support (25mm cannons).

[Chumley]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Chumley Chumley:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Well, they're almost 7,000 tons, given that we squandered our surplus, it's probably all we can afford.

I'd like to see them with ice-strengthen hulls. Imagine being able to drop a fully equipped company in Resolute in the middle of winter...that would be amazing! No one could dispute our Arctic capabilities then.

We were doing that with hercs long before now.

This ship could actually carry vehicles and arty, not just skidoos and Rangers with WW2 rifles.

True, heavier equipment and sustained deployment would be easier with a large ship. They also have the ability to serve as a mobile base of sorts. But for initial deployment hercs are faster.

[Chumley]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

Chumley Chumley:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

I think its the idea of dropping off the whole lot at once rather than piece by piece.

Anyways, I don't like ship, nor do i like idea of combining AOR with Command and control or as a battlegroup transport ship.

You mean at once as in using just one ship? We can drop a company all at once with equipment using probably 4 hercs. I don't know the fuel/maintences logistics compared to one ship, but it would be a faster deployment.

Don't really knwo about maintinence and such, but i would think it depends on if you are using an old herc or a new herc, and it would depend on the ship aswell.

Also, you wouldn't fit all the support elements, kit, food, and ammo for sustained deployment onto 4 hercs. The battle would be over in less than an hour when the troops run out of bullets, with no arty or heavy weapon support (25mm cannons).

For sustained deployment you would need more, for an immediate deployment with light equipment 4 would work, but yes, you would have to follow up your immediate deployment with supplies to fight a sustained battle or even to occupy for a significant length of time.

[Chumley]

I was going on the feel of what Bootlegga said meant more along the lines of a rapid deployment " "Imagine being able to drop a fully equipped company in Resolute in the middle of winter..."

[Freakinoldguy]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Seeing as we've been told recently that the Joint Support Ship (JSS), a combination fleet replenishment ship and army command/control ship, is too expensive, why not build something like the Danish Absalon class Command and Support Ship? http://www.casr.ca/id-danish-naval-projects-absalon.htm

That would allow us to buy a pair of much cheaper refueling ships to replace the existing AORs, while also getting the Army command/control ship into our fleet as well. When not in use by army brass, I think it could also be used as a command and control ship, much like the existing DDHs are. With each one roughly $565 million, we could easily afford three or four of them.

Might not be a bad idea, but just to play the devil's advocate here. Where are you going to get personnel to man 4 warships vice 2 and how big a budget hit would DND take for maintenance of these ships as compared to 2 multi purpose ships?

Like I said, not a bad idea, if they could use these as an interim measure while they waited for the budget forecast to improve. The only down side would be that they'd have to keep the AOR's going till then to.

[bootlegga]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Seeing as we've been told recently that the Joint Support Ship (JSS), a combination fleet replenishment ship and army command/control ship, is too expensive, why not build something like the Danish Absalon class Command and Support Ship? http://www.casr.ca/id-danish-naval-projects-absalon.htm

That would allow us to buy a pair of much cheaper refueling ships to replace the existing AORs, while also getting the Army command/control ship into our fleet as well. When not in use by army brass, I think it could also be used as a command and control ship, much like the existing DDHs are. With each one roughly $565 million, we could easily afford three or four of them.

Might not be a bad idea, but just to play the devil's advocate here. Where are you going to get personnel to man 4 warships vice 2 and how big a budget hit would DND take for maintenance of these ships as compared to 2 multi purpose ships?

Like I said, not a bad idea, if they could use these as an interim measure while they waited for the budget forecast to improve. The only down side would be that they'd have to keep the AOR's going till then to.

It shouldn't be too hard to operate. The AORs have about 265 sailors per ship, while these use 100, therefore, theoretically, we could have man five of these with the same number of sailors. With a $565 million price tag, they come to just over $2 billion (for four), with about $1 billion leftover for two smaller tanker ships. If the tankers cost more, scale it down to three. The good thing about these ships is that they can replace the DDHs too, meaning more personnel and cost savings.