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Should the Minister of National Defence resign?
No, it is not his fault Afghan National Forces may have used torture.  75%  [ 15 ]
Yes, he is partly responsible if Afghan National Forces use torture.  25%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 20

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:16 pm
 


Latest Afghan abuse claims spark cries for O'Connor's resignation

[align=left]The opposition made calls for the defence minister's resignation Monday, after the publication of a damning report about the torture Afghan detainees face when Canadian soldiers transfer them to Afghan security forces.

The Globe and Mail published interviews Monday with 30 men who say they were beaten, starved, frozen and choked after they were handed over to Afghanistan's National Directorate of Security, a notorious intelligence police force.

Some of the men said they were whipped with bundles of electrical cables until they fell unconscious. Others said they were stripped naked and left outside all night, when Kandahar temperatures dipped below freezing.

One man said he was hung by his ankles and beaten for eight days, while another said he was choked while a plastic bag was held over his head.

In the House of Commons Monday afternoon, the NDP, Bloc Québécois and Liberal parties attacked the Conservative government about the allegations and called for Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor to step down.

"The torture in Afghanistan is awful," NDP Jack Layton said. "Will the government do what must must be done now and stop transfers immediately, and launch a public inquiry, and fire the defence minister?"

Allegations taken seriously: O'Connor

O'Connor, along with Prime Minister Stephen Harper, countered that Canadian soldiers treat detainees properly and with care.

Still, the allegations will be looked into, Harper and O'Connor said.

"We take these allegations seriously, O'Connor said. "The [Afghanistan Independent] Human Rights Commission promised to advise us if any of our detainees are abused."

Opposition leaders weren't the only ones attacking the government over the allegations on Monday.

Law professor Michael Byers, who specializes in international law and human rights, questioned whether O'Connor, as well as chief of defence staff Gen. Rick Hillier, can remain in their positions.

Byers, who teaches at the University of British Columbia, said the Globe's allegations are extremely serious. The report would suggest the Canadian military is aiding in the act of torture, by handing detainees over to torturers, he said.

"If this report is accurate, Canadians have engaged in war crimes," he said at a press conference in Ottawa.

'Transfers must stop immediately': professor

Another law professor and human rights expert, Amir Attaran, said the Canadian military must stop the transfers by the end of the day on Monday.

"There is no room for manoeuvre, no room for bargaining," Attaran, a University of Ottawa professor, told CBC News. "The transfers must stop and must stop immediately."

He said Hillier signed an agreement in December 2005 that allowed for the transfers, but didn't include a clause giving the Canadian military the right to inspect detainees after transfers have taken place.

He said European countries that have transfer agreements have included this clause, which is crucial.

"If we hand detainees over to known torturers … and we tell them, 'nudge, nudge, wink, wink, we will not be back to inspect them,' that gives them a lot of latitude," Attaran said.

Other allegations of torture

Attaran brought other allegations of abuse to light in February.

Through the Access to Information Act, he said he received documents from the Department of National Defence that show three Afghan prisoners were abused while in the custody of Canadian soldiers.

Those allegations are being investigated by the military and the Military Police Complaints Commission, a civilian agency.

When those allegations surfaced, O'Connor came under fire when he suggested on March 4 that Canada would get reports and updates about alleged detainee abuse from the International Committee of the Red Cross.

On March 19, he admitted the Red Cross is under no obligation to report to Canada, only Afghanistan.

Canada does have an agreement with the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission stating the commission will monitor the treatment of detainees on Canada's behalf as an extension to the agreement Hillier signed in 2005.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:31 pm
 


Umm .. what do we do with them then? Export them to Canada and give them a taxi or an airport job?

I agree that there should be no torture though, but I'm guessing it's the way that country does things. I'm sure there are things that people from other countrirs don't like about Canada either.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:42 pm
 


It's very simple - Pretend that the guy that posted says "DISREGARD MY LAST - OUT".


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:17 pm
 


its a load of crap, afghans torturing afghans is nothing new and is not the responsibility of Canada. If the liberals wanted the exchanged prisoners to have Canadian supervision they should have signed an agreement that said that before they were tossed out of office.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:34 pm
 


For fuck's sake, this is the Taliban we're talking about. You know, those crazy fuckers who liked to stone women for even daring to walk alone or(Allah forbid) get a job.

These men are animals. They don't deserve our pity or comfort in prisons that used to be theirs. :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:35 pm
 


Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
For fuck's sake, this is the Taliban we're talking about. You know, those crazy fuckers who liked to stone women for even daring to walk alone or(Allah forbid) get a job.

These men are animals. They don't deserve our pity or comfort in prisons that used to be theirs. :roll:



Exactly! Its nice to see someone with a liberal tag next to them talking some sence! We should be making these people eat Bacon and Watch Porn! lol


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:41 pm
 


$1:
Exactly! Its nice to see someone with a liberal tag next to them talking some sence! We should be making these people eat Bacon and Watch Porn! lol


ROTFL


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:18 pm
 


Wow what a shock
Canadian soldiers have killed more than what can consider to be accidental killings of innocent civillians.
So it comes as no surprise they are torturing them.

I mean...really

Harper has to do all that is possible to impress bush.

I have no doubt, Canadians torturing Afghanis are orders from the white house

$1:
For fuck's sake, this is the Taliban we're talking about. You know, those crazy fuckers who liked to stone women for even daring to walk alone or(Allah forbid) get a job.


You mean those nasty people the Americans not only helped to create but were best friends with, and invited them to America to discuss plans for a pipeline?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:35 pm
 


What is this then? Afgani terrorists will now control our political landscape? These fuckers are the same ones who say to the west 'don't tread on our culture'. This was perpertrated by members of their 'culture', so make up your fuckin' minds, either we show you how to live in a free society or we don't interfere, this sounds like wanting their cake and eating it too. It is not our fault that they lie so much they can't remeber how to speak the truth. What do you think they were pulled in for J-Walking? No these are terrorists who would do this and worse to any westerner they came across. Now they seek only to EXPLOIT those who would listen to this bullshit, to cause turmoil and strife inside our lands, to use a system that was put in place with the best of intentions against us.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:47 pm
 


baylee baylee:
Wow what a shock
Canadian soldiers have killed more than what can consider to be accidental killings of innocent civillians.
So it comes as no surprise they are torturing them.

I mean...really

Harper has to do all that is possible to impress bush.

I have no doubt, Canadians torturing Afghanis are orders from the white house

$1:
For fuck's sake, this is the Taliban we're talking about. You know, those crazy fuckers who liked to stone women for even daring to walk alone or(Allah forbid) get a job.


You mean those nasty people the Americans not only helped to create but were best friends with, and invited them to America to discuss plans for a pipeline?


Read the news you ignorant hick, its not Canadian soldiers that are accused of torturing the captured taliban. It's the afghan intelligence force that stands accused. The article goes on to say how the captured Taliban thought being under Canadian detention was great, they even praised us for our politeness. Something we probably shouldnt be proud of.

Before you post anything else I suggest you actually read up on the situation and get over your Bush obsession. We are in Afghanistan because the LIBERAL's(NOT HARPER) put us there! Under a UNITED NATIONS MANDATE! The reason we have no authority to check up on prisoners we turn over is because the LIBERAL GOVERNMENT(NOT HARPER) of the time didnt think human rights was necessary when signing the agreement with the new DEMOCRATICLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT of Afghanistan.


Furthermore, Bush has 2 more years in office. Then he will be gone. Unlike the Taliban or Saddam Hussein, who would have continued to oppress, torture and murder their own citizens. Its one of the joys of Democracy, even if you dont like the guy in power he will be gone in a few years. And, that guy is kept in check by a LEAGEL OPPOSITION that isnt hunted, tortured, and murdered like in those other countries.

Show a little respect for Democracy and human rights and educate yourself.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:27 pm
 


Rihx Rihx:
its a load of crap, afghans torturing afghans is nothing new and is not the responsibility of Canada. If the liberals wanted the exchanged prisoners to have Canadian supervision they should have signed an agreement that said that before they were tossed out of office.


Just so you know Rihx the well informed. It is Canada's responsibility to not turn captives over to anyone, even Afghanis, who will in turn torture these prisoners. It's considered a war crime.

Perhaps you should get educated, you know, take your own advise given to baylee. :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:35 pm
 


Wada Wada:
Rihx Rihx:
its a load of crap, afghans torturing afghans is nothing new and is not the responsibility of Canada. If the liberals wanted the exchanged prisoners to have Canadian supervision they should have signed an agreement that said that before they were tossed out of office.


Just so you know Rihx the well informed. It is Canada's responsibility to not turn captives over to anyone, even Afghanis, who will in turn torture these prisoners. It's considered a war crime.

Perhaps you should get educated, you know, take your own advise given to baylee. :wink:


And that agreement with the Afghan government was put in place by the previous LIBERAL Government, its a lot harder to change a treaty obligation once the ink has dried. If they had of done thier job in the first place it wouldnt be an issue.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:47 pm
 


Wada Wada:
Rihx Rihx:
its a load of crap, afghans torturing afghans is nothing new and is not the responsibility of Canada. If the liberals wanted the exchanged prisoners to have Canadian supervision they should have signed an agreement that said that before they were tossed out of office.


Just so you know Rihx the well informed. It is Canada's responsibility to not turn captives over to anyone, even Afghanis, who will in turn torture these prisoners. It's considered a war crime.

Perhaps you should get educated, you know, take your own advise given to baylee. :wink:
Hey can I borrow your Crystal Ball? Apparently you knew they were going to be tortured right? I want to see what my marks are going to be for my exams, thanks!

Oh an on Baylee.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:58 pm
 


Rihx Rihx:
Wada Wada:
Rihx Rihx:
its a load of crap, afghans torturing afghans is nothing new and is not the responsibility of Canada. If the liberals wanted the exchanged prisoners to have Canadian supervision they should have signed an agreement that said that before they were tossed out of office.


Just so you know Rihx the well informed. It is Canada's responsibility to not turn captives over to anyone, even Afghanis, who will in turn torture these prisoners. It's considered a war crime.

Perhaps you should get educated, you know, take your own advise given to baylee. :wink:


And that agreement with the Afghan government was put in place by the previous LIBERAL Government, its a lot harder to change a treaty obligation once the ink has dried. If they had of done thier job in the first place it wouldnt be an issue.


You may be right regarding the Liberals but Stevie wanted the job , he got it and now it's up to him to resolve this issue, not the Liberals. Now just WTF was your point?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:00 pm
 


Tricks Tricks:
Wada Wada:
Rihx Rihx:
its a load of crap, afghans torturing afghans is nothing new and is not the responsibility of Canada. If the liberals wanted the exchanged prisoners to have Canadian supervision they should have signed an agreement that said that before they were tossed out of office.


Just so you know Rihx the well informed. It is Canada's responsibility to not turn captives over to anyone, even Afghanis, who will in turn torture these prisoners. It's considered a war crime.

Perhaps you should get educated, you know, take your own advise given to baylee. :wink:
Hey can I borrow your Crystal Ball? Apparently you knew they were going to be tortured right? I want to see what my marks are going to be for my exams, thanks!

Oh an on Baylee.

Image


I've never fed YOU! YOU seem to know it all so I'm guessing your marks might fair well.


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