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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:03 am
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
It amazes me that no matter what muslims or Christians say if it doesn't fit your itty-bitty worldview you reject it outright.

And what is truly fascinating here is that you seem to present the image of muslims that Christians present for themselves and you present the image of Christians that muslims present for themselves. Yet you reject both.
Someone who thinks that by reading a religious text and a handful of articles they can know exactly what millions of people believe might not want to criticize my "itty bitty" worldview.

I don't know what "images" I've presented other than the satirical "real" Christian I mentioned in the last few posts - if you haven't figured out the significance of that, or believe I actually hold those views of Christians, you need to catch up.

If you think individual opinions of anyone will convince me, find a quotation of Cat Stevens confessing that his mission is life is to kill all the infidels - I'll believe you.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM9zKyDz4ko[/youtube]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:
You have no problem calling Christians terrorists and you have no problem denouncing my personal faith - which is one of those nasty personal attacks the mods tend to frown on (bad form on your part btw) - and then you simultaneously denounce what muslims have to say be they practicing muslims or ex-muslims.
I didn't call Christians terrorists, actually. I think Muslims' faith is as dumb as any (or worse), and I think their social views are largely archaic and out of place in our society, but that doesn't cause me to believe they're all murderers - for the simple fact that they aren't.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Have a nice night.
You too, you bigoted old man. Don't let the Boogeyman get you.

Dayseed sums it up nicely herein:
Dayseed Dayseed:
Blue_Nose,

You're fighting the impossible fight. You actually believe that a fundamentalist Christian has the capacity to change, rather than just present himself as open-minded.

You can show him passages from the bible no different than the worst ones from the qu'ran; the fundamentalist simply states that any good thinking Christian will ignore those passages but in the same breath state that Muslims are incapable of the same judgements.

You can show him websites of Christian sects hell-bent on nuking and paving this world into a united Christian parking lot; they're irrelevent to him as they don't typify the religion. Show him news articles of Muslims in Canada opposing Sharia law and he ignores and/or dismisses them as fakes.

You can show him a moderate Islamic state, Turkey; it's acceptance into NATO and its impending accession into the EU. The fundamentalist Christian merely scoffs, points to Turkey's involvement in the Gulf War and safely returns to hating Muslims.

The bottom line, Blue_Nose, is that fundamentalists aren't interested in a rational discussion about other religions. They're scared little bigots maintaining hypocritical double-standards because it helps them sleep at night.

Bonne chance...


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:19 am
 


Brenda Brenda:
I'd personally like to see it happen too, but Turkey needs to separate church and state first.
Of course there are more issues, but to separate church in state should be the first thing they need to do

This is a link about the issues that need to be addressed

I was wrong with my date though, it seems there hasn't been a date set.

It will be a great way to connect Europe and Asia, economically.


http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/ ... 015_en.pdf

Here's a .pdf file which is the transcript of a BBC interview with European Commision President Jose Barroso, regarding Turkey's membership in the EU. Beginning on the bottom of the second page he mentions that it will take 15 to 20 years for the process to be completed. This interview was conducted in December of 2006.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:30 am
 


That's where my 15 came from ;-)

What I find strange, though, is the fact that Romania and Bulgaria can join. These are very poor countries, that will only cost, and have little to add to the EU. Turkey has something to add: a gateway to Asia.

I don't necessarily agree with Barosso though. Poland will not become the EU's new Spain :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:03 am
 


Brenda
$1:
I don't necessarily agree with Barosso though. Poland will not become the EU's new Spain


It is doubtful that Poland will attract the tourists in the manner that Iviza or Majorca do.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:10 am
 


sasquatch2 sasquatch2:
Brenda
$1:
I don't necessarily agree with Barosso though. Poland will not become the EU's new Spain


It is doubtful that Poland will attract the tourists in the manner that Iviza or Majorca do.


Exactly ;-)

Warsaw and Barcelona or Madrid are not comparable either... But... Poland has some cheap ski-areas. But it will never be as touristic as Spain. It will cost the EU even more to get that country on track then it cost to get Spain on track, and even Spain is not really on track yet...


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:22 pm
 


Dayseed Dayseed:
Blue_Nose,

You're fighting the impossible fight. You actually believe that a fundamentalist Christian has the capacity to change, rather than just present himself as open-minded.

You can show him passages from the bible no different than the worst ones from the qu'ran; the fundamentalist simply states that any good thinking Christian will ignore those passages but in the same breath state that Muslims are incapable of the same judgements.

You can show him websites of Christian sects hell-bent on nuking and paving this world into a united Christian parking lot; they're irrelevent to him as they don't typify the religion. Show him news articles of Muslims in Canada opposing Sharia law and he ignores and/or dismisses them as fakes.

You can show him a moderate Islamic state, Turkey; it's acceptance into NATO and its impending accession into the EU. The fundamentalist Christian merely scoffs, points to Turkey's involvement in the Gulf War and safely returns to hating Muslims.

The bottom line, Blue_Nose, is that fundamentalists aren't interested in a rational discussion about other religions. They're scared little bigots maintaining hypocritical double-standards because it helps them sleep at night.

Bonne chance...


An excellent post and pretty flawless in its logic.

It got me to thinking about religion and society wirth regards to violence.

THe anti-muslim crowd looks at the (very small scale) violence being committed "in the name of allah" as something they themselves haven't done only in a different manner.

They use religion as a rallying cry for war. So have christians throughout history and doing far worse. Of course if we look at modern times the christians will tell us they haven't killed "in the name of jesus/religion" in a long time.

1) Thats not true. The Nazi's/Hitler did just that.

2) So even if that true so what? Our society, our moreso secular society has committed countless acts of brutal violence in other names

Did the muslims fight 2 world wars? No. We did. The first boiled down to all the world superpowers fighting it out because they didn't have anything better to do.

The second was even worse and featured one of the worst holocausts of humanity perpetrated by which religion again? Not muslim thats for sure.

The current war supporters of afganistan/iraq say that are troops aren't deliberately targetting civilians like the enemy is.

First off thats simply wrong. Those same people justify doing just that when our airstrikes kill off entire families because a couple of insurgents may be hiding there.

Second, our superir weapons, training, and numbers mean we don't have to use those tactics as we so often did in the past.

We nuked entire cities of civilians because we felt it was the best way to end a war with the fewest casualities. We firebombed major german cities for the same reason.

We did that and more and justified them as surely as the "enemy" is doing so today.

Terrorists is what the big army calls the little army.

To all of that you can add the massive guilt western society (and I'll include russia/USSR) has when it comes to all meddling in the middle-east we have done for over 100 years now.

There is a great deal of holier then thou people justifying their outrage for "muslim" violence who are simply blind or unbelievably hypocritical to the violence their own society/religion.

The difference between them and us is that religion is almost their entire society/culture so their violence can be conviently lumped into a single category.

Take western society Vs muslim society for the last 100 years or so. Now compare all their "religious" violence against all our violence whether comitted for acts of religion. resources, or political ideology.

Suddenly we don't look so great as an enlightened society especially when you consider that its our troops invading their lands yet again.

That fresh brown trout in your huggies smells just as bad as theirs.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:26 pm
 


who invented religion? And why?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:32 pm
 


1andonly
$1:
who invented religion? And why?


The best theory is that it was a nameless, long forgotten cro-magnon who figured out a way to make a good living and have influence without hunting, fighting or working.


Last edited by sasquatch2 on Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:02 pm
 


No one invented religion. It's superstition taken to it's peak.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:27 pm
 


1andonly 1andonly:
who invented religion? And why?


Probaly someone asked someone else why something happened. They probaly answereed someone else did it, but they were alot stronger then them. Henceforce, anything that happened that wasn't explained was caused by another strong guy (or the same guy).


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