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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:56 pm
 


What Ezra said is why this bothers me too.

Too much of this feels contrived.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:32 pm
 


N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:
And if the gun is illegal I would still wonder how he got it.

He'd sound pretty resourceful for a crazy person.

Or what if he snuck it from his parents. You know, the ones who were so worried about his insanity.


This is a terribly ignorant statement.

People with mental illness aren't stupid. It's time we stop referring to everyone with mental illness as 'crazy'. They're not.

He was a 29 year old man. His parents aren't responsible for him.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:36 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
What Ezra said is why this bothers me too.

Too much of this feels contrived.

Probably because they needed to inform the family of his death, and circumstances surrounding it. I'd assume doing that before they say anything to the press is pretty standard MO. And if it isn't, it should be. Not everything is a nefarious plot.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:00 pm
 


N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:
And if the gun is illegal I would still wonder how he got it.

He'd sound pretty resourceful for a crazy person.

Or what if he snuck it from his parents. You know, the ones who were so worried about his insanity.



It’s really not that resourceful cause it’s not hard or expensive to get an illegal gun.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:54 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Coach85 Coach85:
Coach85 Coach85:
Gunman identified as Faisal Hussain


The family has released a statement about his mental illness.


Odd that they'd be allowed to speak to the media when the investigation is ongoing and they're material witnesses (at least) right now.

Sure like to know from what American town his weapons came from.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:05 pm
 


housewife housewife:
It’s really not that resourceful cause it’s not hard or expensive to get an illegal gun.


Isn't it?

I'm wondering where I'd go if I was the sort who wanted one. Where would I go? What would I do? Hit the internet I guess.

Faisal had something I don't though - social connections and a history with illegal guns and violence.

$1:
Sources say police in Toronto and CSIS officials in Ottawa, as well as the RCMP, are looking into his past which sources say include his residence in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Hussain apparently had been spoken-to by authorities about his online activities. Sources say Toronto Police, the OPP and the RCMP have all had an interest in the now-deceased alleged shooter.

What law enforcement is saying is that the attack was planned, and Hussain was “well known to Toronto Police” for investigations into past crimes “involving weapons and violence.”

He was also known to hang out behind his building at 43 Thorncliffe Park Blvd. with a group of 20 friends.

“Police were called once because they thought Faisal was carrying a gun,” said someone who was there. “No gun was found.”

A neighbour living near the apartment where Hussain lived with his parents said Faisal told him he previously worked in a bakery and as a grocer. While some friends said he was “not at all radical,” others said he was more interested in Islamic discussions “when there were more people around.”

At the 65 Mussallah Mosque near the building, Abubaker Patel said he knew Faisal’s father well, calling him “the nicest guy in the world.” The elder Hussain is in Sunnybrook Hospital and his other son has been in a coma for the past year, Patel said.

Faisal, he suggested, has lived alone in the apartment in the meantime.

Sources say the deceased shooter’s personal life is being explored — including searching his family’s residence in Unit 707 in the Thorncliffe apartment building.

Police executed a search warrant Monday and were set to hunt for what they were told could be a stockpile of weapons and perhaps explosives. They were also interested in computers and hard drives.

While police made clear they have not ruled out any motives, the investigation will undoubtedly uncover the broken pieces of a life that ended in senseless violence and death.

Little comfort to his victims, or to a city struggling to make sense of this tragedy.


https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/ ... -terrorism

So he's a highly functioning guy. He has social contacts, a knowledge of weapons, connections at a mosque, and an interest in Islam, internet knowledge and an ability to plan.

Very well, Coach seemed to be indicating he had a superior knowledge on where madness excuses culpability in a functioning adult. Perhaps he can educate us on why we now need to ignore the possibility we're dealing with another Jihadi because his parents say he's just nuts.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:19 pm
 


Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
Sure like to know from what American town his weapons came from.


Could be a Fast and Furious gun.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:34 pm
 


N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Very well, Coach seemed to be indicating he had a superior knowledge on where madness excuses culpability in a functioning adult. Perhaps he can educate us on why we now need to ignore the possibility we're dealing with another Jihadi because his parents say he's just nuts.


Again with the ignorance. Come on Fiddle, grow up!

Mental illness does not make one 'nuts' or dumb. You have so much to learn, if you're willing, about mental illness.

As you've noticed, this guy wasn't the babbling fool you thought he was because he had a mental illness. Surely he wasn't smart enough to find a gun and must have had help from his parents, right?

I haven't said anything to indicate this guy is or isn't a Jihadi. Noting his mental illness doesn't discount or give him a pass for his actions or his prior behaviour. You need to stop making so many assumptions.

A Jihadi is a Jihadi whether he/she has a mental illness or not. (One could argue anyone doing such things is mentally ill whether diagnosed or not). This guy is likely another guy driven by 'Islam'.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:56 pm
 


Can we finally call it what it is? Can we finally admit this is Terrorism?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:55 pm
 


N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
martin14 martin14:
Coulter's law dictates that the longer that it takes the media to identify the shooter
the less likely he is white and Christian.



And it’s total horse shit.


:wink:


Yup, it's absolutely not true.

:wink:


Coach85 Coach85:
The family has released a statement about his mental illness. More to come.


Boy, that was pretty fast.
Almost like they were prepared for it.


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Odd that they'd be allowed to speak to the media when the investigation is ongoing and they're material witnesses (at least) right now.


They won't be charged with anything, so it's needed to get the mentally ill
angle out right away.


llama66 llama66:
Can we finally call it what it is? Can we finally admit this is Terrorism?


No.
Never.
It has nothing to do with Islam.
It never does.

Don't you read the papers ?

It's mental illness, and those evil American gun laws. Nothing more.

It's always mental illness.
There is always a prepared story.
Default sliding excuse, and it stinks.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:24 pm
 


Coach85 Coach85:

Again with the ignorance. Come on Fiddle, grow up!

Mental illness does not make one 'nuts' or dumb. You have so much to learn, if you're willing, about mental illness.


I'm very willing. By all means educate me.

The claim passed on through the CBC was that Faisal struggled with psychosis and depression.

As I understand psychosis it has to do with problems discerning reality. You have problems telling what's real from what's not. There are multiple causes this might spin from and grades of severity with varieties of symptoms.

So at what point might this interfere with your sense of agency? When will your ability to plan an action spin out of your control? It's true that if you're rolling on the ground dealing with hallucinations or talking to the voices in your head you might have difficulty getting your dodgy real world buddy to connect you with the neighborhood gun dealer.

But suppose it's not that bad. Suppose your sense of agency is not so impaired that you cannot connect with your strategies or lose sight of why you formulated them. If you can function to devise and follow a plan are you culpable for your actions?

I think so.

However, Faisal's name was finally released to the media and bang the CBC was johnny-on-the-spot with something that sounded like it was put out by a PR firm. It was almost like the CBC's Muslim writer had been waiting with the paper in his hand.

The disclaimer blatantly inferred an excuse of mental infirmity on Faisal's crimes. It was almost like they were requesting sympathy for the perp. But didn't we just agree that by following a plan and exhibiting the ability to function in the real world he has agency and agency implies culpability.

See now why I'm curious how he got the gun?


Last edited by N_Fiddledog on Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:25 pm
 


Alek Minassian....He is not Muslim, not Middle Eastern. What is his religion?

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:35 pm
 


Faisal was functioning in this reality well enough to deal with it.

Let's say he was on his internet and he was impressed by this missive from ISIS:

$1:
So O muwahhid, do not let this battle pass you by wherever you may be. You must strike the soldiers, patrons, and troops of the tawaghit. Strike their police, security, and intelligence members, as well as their treacherous agents. Destroy their beds. Embitter their lives for them and busy them with themselves. If you can kill a disbelieving American or European — especially the spiteful and filthy French — or an Australian, or a Canadian, or any other disbeliever from the disbelievers waging war, including the citizens of the countries that entered into a coalition against the Islamic State, then rely upon Allah, and kill him in any manner or way however it may be….If you are not able to find an IED or a bullet, then single out the disbelieving American, Frenchman, or any of their allies. Smash his head with a rock, or slaughter him with a knife, or run him over with your car, or throw him down from a high place, or choke him, or poison him….


Apparently that has made sense to Muslims we consider sane in the past and they have acted on it.

Would Faisal get a 'get out of jail free' card because some PR firm found a confederate at the CBC to pass on a missive saying something like "It's OK. He's just nuts?"


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:09 am
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Unless the person telegraphs their intentions to do something like this, there is no way to prevent it.

It's the price we pay for living in a free society.


llama66 llama66:
IIRC Gun ownership is 35 guns per 100 people. It puts us 5th in the world for gun ownership. This is bound to happen, as DrCaleb alludes, its the price we pay for our free and open society.


Wish you guys peace and harmony from Karachi, Pakistan .


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:34 am
 


I don't know what you guys are talking about thinking there's no solution to gun violence and getting worried the amount of guns might matter.

Did you not hear? Canadian gun laws are magic.

For example, if you just applied Canadian gun law to centers of American gun violence like Chicago it would be like saying abracadabra and 'poof' the gun violence of Chicago would instantly disappear.

Just ask Coach. He'll tell you all about it.

Why these bozos like Faisal Hussein want to come along and screw our Canadian gun law magic up, I don't know. I'll have to ask Coach. He's the expert.


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