[DrCaleb]

desertdude desertdude:

Also not forgeting, what all of this is suppose to protect what. Air Canada which some years back almost filed for bankruptcy and not really making much money of late either. And does not pose any real competetion on an international level anyways.

So I guess they were protecting the only sector they have any control over.

Air Canada has been bailed out more than once. And of course, the air market in Canada is anything but a free market.

Air Canada is mandated to operate many money losing routes, because of Canada's size. If they weren't mandated, many place would be without air service. So giving up routes that they make money on is not something they are going to give up any time soon. But Emirates Air doesn't care. They want the direct flights, no matter what the cost to Canada nationally. When the Canadian taxpayer has to bail out AC once again, is Emirates Air going to help out?

[desertdude]

Just for arguments sake how much would it hurt Canada by giving out slots to any destination that it does not fly to. Just asking.

[bootlegga]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Air Canada has been bailed out more than once. And of course, the air market in Canada is anything but a free market.

Air Canada is mandated to operate many money losing routes, because of Canada's size. If they weren't mandated, many place would be without air service. So giving up routes that they make money on is not something they are going to give up any time soon. But Emirates Air doesn't care. They want the direct flights, no matter what the cost to Canada nationally. When the Canadian taxpayer has to bail out AC once again, is Emirates Air going to help out?

[martin14]

desertdude desertdude:

Just for arguments sake how much would it hurt Canada by giving out slots to any destination that it does not fly to. Just asking.

Probably not much... it was much more in the accompanying threats.

[DrCaleb]

martin14 martin14:

desertdude desertdude:

Just for arguments sake how much would it hurt Canada by giving out slots to any destination that it does not fly to. Just asking.

Probably not much... it was much more in the accompanying threats.

'Direct Flight' is irrelevant. If AC doesn't fly direct to Spain, but a Spanish carrier wanted direct flights to Toronto, then the flight that takes people from Pearson to Heathrow to connect to their Madrid flight is affected. Then the remaining people on that same Pearson to Heathrow flight get knocked off because of a Pearson to Moscow direct flight . . .then the flight starts only leaving 3 times a week . . . and eventually the money making route is gone to other direct flights from smaller or regional carriers.

Even Emirates Air isn't so thick to not see 'death by a thousand cuts'. Petty retaliation on their part however, just strengthened our resolve.

[desertdude]

So basicaly AC wants to force Canadians to use it and have no choice in the matter.

A lot of non national carriers are allowed direct flights to Dubai. Doesn't seem to bother them much and most people prefer to Fly Emirates anyway.

[Brenda]

desertdude desertdude:

So basicaly AC wants to force Canadians to use it and have no choice in the matter.

A lot of non national carriers are allowed direct flights to Dubai. Doesn't seem to bother them much and most people prefer to Fly Emirates anyway.

AC wants to force Canadians to only fly AC period.

[2Cdo]

Brenda Brenda:

desertdude desertdude:

So basicaly AC wants to force Canadians to use it and have no choice in the matter.

A lot of non national carriers are allowed direct flights to Dubai. Doesn't seem to bother them much and most people prefer to Fly Emirates anyway.

AC wants to force Canadians to only fly AC period.

Wow.

[DrCaleb]

desertdude desertdude:

So basicaly AC wants to force Canadians to use it and have no choice in the matter.

A lot of non national carriers are allowed direct flights to Dubai. Doesn't seem to bother them much and most people prefer to Fly Emirates anyway.

No, the Canadian government forces AC to provide people in places like Norman Wells, NT or Baker Lake, NU with air service . . . because it's cheaper than building thousands of kilometers of roads it would take to bring road service to places like these. In many places in Canada, there is no other air carrier that can lose money to bring scheduled service to places like these.

Dubai and Canada are like Apples and Hydrogen. Their transportation needs and challenges are nothing like ours. They aren't comparable. How wide the the UAE, 700km? I can drive that far, and pass no towns over 1000 people, and not even leave my province. Not even halfway.

[Lemmy]

desertdude desertdude:

So basicaly AC wants to force Canadians to use it and have no choice in the matter.

A lot of non national carriers are allowed direct flights to Dubai. Doesn't seem to bother them much and most people prefer to Fly Emirates anyway.

Air Canada and Luftansa have been operating the Toronto-Frankfurt-Dubai route forever. Air Emirates has been offering direct flights for the past year or so. Now those AC-Luftansa flights are flying empty and the Air Emirates flights are booked solid. The consumer has spoken and AC & Luftansa are fighting back by pressuring the Canadian government to cancel Air Emirates that route. That's the crux of it.

And in response to Dr. Caleb's point about bailing out AC, if AC would operate a quality service, we wouldn't have to bail them out. This whole nonesense is, essentially, subsidizing a shit, inefficient company INCREASING the likelihood of a future bailout. Force AC to do things right by the consumer and they'd have nothing to worry about.

[Brenda]

That same 700 kms cost with AC about $600, return flight. In the same province...

A smaller carrier, same distance (airports are 45 kms apart) costs $300 return. You do the math.

[mikewood86]

The title was so misleading.

I was expecting a mean letter, maybe some hair pulling or flag burning or something. That 'lashing' seemed pretty professional. I'd almost call it a response.

[DrCaleb]

Lemmy Lemmy:

And in response to Dr. Caleb's point about bailing out AC, if AC would operate a quality service, we wouldn't have to bail them out. This whole nonesense is, essentially, subsidizing a shit, inefficient company INCREASING the likelihood of a future bailout. Force AC to do things right by the consumer and they'd have nothing to worry about.

I agree with you totally Lemmy. I preferred flying Canadian airlines (better looking stewardesses), now prefer Westjet. I've never like flying better than on my last flight to Ottawa, the flight attendant gave the Safety Speech in a really good 'Captain Kirk' impression - in English and French - and got a standing ovation.

Air Canada could offer better service instead of barely adequate, but to blame AC for the restrictions placed on it by the Canadian government isn't right either.

[EyeBrock]

martin14 martin14:

desertdude desertdude:

Just for arguments sake how much would it hurt Canada by giving out slots to any destination that it does not fly to. Just asking.

Probably not much... it was much more in the accompanying threats.

I agree martin. The UAE misjudged Harper if they thought threatening to kick us off Camp Mirage would curry favour for Emirates.

It's obvious that McKay was all for a more pragmatic, realpolitik approach but I'm with Herr Harper on this one.

The UAE's business methods were further called into question with all the backstabbing in the UN they cultivated and aimed at us. Linking business and politics this way is so third world.

[bootlegga]

Brenda Brenda:

desertdude desertdude:

So basicaly AC wants to force Canadians to use it and have no choice in the matter.

A lot of non national carriers are allowed direct flights to Dubai. Doesn't seem to bother them much and most people prefer to Fly Emirates anyway.

AC wants to force Canadians to only fly AC period.

That's not true at all.

There has almost always been a national competitor (before Westjet there was Canadian Airlines), and lots of small regional ones for AC to contend with. AC might survive by subsidizing its domestic routes with its international routes, but it has no say in whether or not competitors fly out of the country.

Westjet only flies to a handful other countries (the US and Caribbean) because it chooses to maintain only one type of plane in service (the 737), which does not have the legs for long international flights to places like Europe and Asia. Westjet's business model is based on the 737, which is highly fuel efficient and having only one airframe in service lowers maintenance costs.

And there are other airlines (like Transat) that rely solely on international travel - usually as charter companies - that AC has to compete with. Tack on dozens of other international carriers that land at airports across the country - US, European, Asian carriers - you name it, there are plenty of options if one doesn't want to fly AC internationally.

I'd bet that the issue is that Emirate Air wanted the route all to themselves and refused to code-share - like everyone else does - and so was cut out of a market it wanted into.