CKA Forums
Login 
canadian forums
bottom
 
 
Canadian Forums

Author Topic Options
Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 21448
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:35 pm
 


Quote:
The Liberal Party will scrap the Conservatives' troubled F-35 fighter jet program should they assume government, Leader Justin Trudeau announced in Halifax today.

"Our Canadian Forces are in a state of stagnation," Trudeau said to a crowd of supporters at Pier 21 in Halifax, home to the Canadian Museum of Immigration.

In its place, the Liberals said they would launch an "open and transparent competition" to buy more affordable planes to replace Canada's aging CF-18 jets. Trudeau said the money saved by scrapping the F-35 procurement would go primarily to increasing spending on the Royal Canadian Navy.

The primary mission of our fighter aircraft, Trudeau said, is the defence of North America.

Expanding the procurement process for the navy will be a priority, Trudeau said. That includes acquisition of search-and-rescue ships, icebreakers and surface combatants.

He said he would keep the Conservative promise to build Arctic offshore patrol ships originally announced in 2007, and which were due in 2013. The plan was to build as many as eight ships.

In January, the government finally signed a contract guaranteeing delivery of only five of the vessels (and a possibility of a sixth), with the first scheduled for delivery in 2018.

"We are committed to the initial promise of making sure there's at least six ships go through the Halifax shipyards," Trudeau said.

The Liberal leader did not offer a specific number when asked how much today's promises would cost, instead saying that it would save "tens of billions of dollars in the coming decades."

Tories not abandoning fight against ISIS

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper, meanwhile, said that the government — and even previous Liberal governments — have had need of Canada's military assets around the world.

"[Trudeau] has indicated that we do not need that capacity in our air force. I don't know where he's getting his information," Harper said during a rally in Windsor, Ont.

"We along, with our allies, have been using this exact capacity with our current CF-18s in various parts of the world, including right in the fight against ISIS in Iraq and Syria," he said.

"We are not going to abandon our fight against ISIS, not going to abandon our allies, not going to abandon people in the region, not going to abandon that kind of capacity in our air force and we are not going to abandon our domestic aerospace industry."

The Liberal leader, for his part, repeated a promise to end Canada's combat mission against ISIS if he becomes prime minister in the Oct. 19 vote.

F-35 controversy

The F-35 program has been embroiled in controversy since the Conservative government announced its intention to purchase the fighter jets in 2010.

The Conservative government had planned on purchasing 65 F-35s for the Royal Canadian Air Force but the procurement process was put on hold after the auditor general accused the government of fudging the project's costs and not doing sufficient research. A 2012 report had lambasted the military's opaque purchasing process.

The purchase would have cost taxpayers an estimated $44 billion over its four-decade lifetime.

A June 2014 report from the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives said buying the single-engine F-35s would be a "serious mistake."

More recently, CBC News reported that the widening fallout from the botched program may be damaging the military's relationships with its international allies.

Trudeau said the Liberals would maintain current defence spending levels and would review the Canada First Defence Strategy.

He outlined, too, a zero-tolerance policy for sexual harassment in the military, adequate mental health support and services and "high-quality" career counselling and support "to protect the well-being of the men and women in uniform, both while in service and afterwards."

The Liberal leader also repeated a promise to reopen the nine Veterans' Affairs offices that were shuttered by the Conservative government in early 2014.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada- ... -1.3235791

R=UP


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Toronto Maple Leafs
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 14116
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:37 pm
 


Quote:
The Liberal Party will scrap the Conservatives' troubled F-35 fighter jet program should they assume government, Leader Justin Trudeau announced in Halifax today.

That's odd, cuz I'm pretty damn sure it was Chretien that got us all tied up with the F-35 in the first place so it's not really the Conservative's program, they merely inherited it and got to take all the flak for it.


Offline
CKA Super Elite
CKA Super Elite
 Vancouver Canucks
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 9445
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:36 pm
 


Nice hair though. :lol:


Attachments:
IMG_20150922_003449.jpg
IMG_20150922_003449.jpg [ 102.97 KiB | Viewed 98 times ]
Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Montreal Canadiens
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 33691
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:44 pm
 


bootlegga wrote:

R=UP



You can believe the bullshit, but the reality is there are more customers than Canada who
have ordered the F-35, and those orders will be completed, or the financial and NATO penalties
will be prohibitively expensive.

No one, and I repeat NO ONE, is getting off the F-35 ride. The US won't allow it.


Didn't Justine vote for C-51 ?
Do you ever wonder why ?


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Vancouver Canucks


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 26054
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:15 am
 


Watch this. You just saw the way CBC presented that story. Now try Global.

Quote:
OTTAWA – The politics of military procurement preoccupied the federal leaders today as they fired rhetorical missiles at each other over the future of Canada’s ill-fated attempt to buy new fighter jets.

Stephen Harper and Tom Mulcair both blasted Justin Trudeau for announcing yesterday that he would scrap the multibillion-dollar purchase of F-35 stealth fighters to replace the current aging fleet of CF-18s.

The Conservative and NDP leaders both said it showed a lack of judgment by the Liberal leader.

Harper questioned “what planet” Trudeau was living on, while Mulcair said Trudeau was pre-judging the public tendering process.


http://globalnews.ca/news/2232152/harpe ... announced/

Maybe it's just because Global's is more recent, but doesn't it seem like somebody loves them some shiny pony, and somebody doesn't.


Offline
Forum Elite
Forum Elite
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 1767
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:02 am
 


Canada has not signed a purchase contract for F-35. Harper made that clear years ago. But he keeps talking about it. And Harper made one more mistake, possibly on purpose. He said "The Liberal Party is living in a dream world if they think we can pull out of the development project of the F-35 and not lose business". But that is two separate things. No one said we would pull out of the development project, and we wouldn't loose manufacturing contracts. That is not contingent on Canada buying the thing.

Right in the beginning, Harper claimed the previous Liberal government had committed to buying it. They didn't. They committed to spending $135 million of government money on development, in exchange for $800 million in manufacturing contracts. Harper has said he wants to spend double-digit billions on the F-35 to get single-digit manufacturing contracts. Any businessman will tell you the first plan is profitable, the second is not. And more importantly, the Liberal government ensured Canada would be involved in the development of a new fighter jet to keep our aerospace industry current, and to land jobs for Canadians. Liberals never said we would buy it. Now Harper is claiming that failure to buy it will lose manufacturing contracts. That's bull shit.

Just this morning, Rosemary Barton on Power and Politics said we already have $600 million manufacturing contracts, those jobs have already started. Failure to buy the thing will not cancel those contracts.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Montreal Canadiens
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 33691
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:15 am
 


Winnipegger wrote:
Just this morning, Rosemary Barton on Power and Politics said we already have $600 million manufacturing contracts, those jobs have already started. Failure to buy the thing will not cancel those contracts.


No, but we will definitely not get anything else, and be reduced to target practise.

Again.

Just like our subs. When they aren't busy sinking.


Offline
Forum Elite
Forum Elite
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 1767
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:23 am
 


Alternatives: can you name them all?
Image
Image
Image
Image

And I would like to throw in:
Image


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Toronto Maple Leafs


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 11850
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:42 am
 


Tiger Moth.

Royal Aircraft factory SE5.

Spad SG

Avro 504.

Sopwith Camel.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 21448
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:57 am
 


martin14 wrote:
bootlegga wrote:

R=UP


You can believe the bullshit, but the reality is there are more customers than Canada who
have ordered the F-35, and those orders will be completed, or the financial and NATO penalties
will be prohibitively expensive.

No one, and I repeat NO ONE, is getting off the F-35 ride. The US won't allow it.


Unless the Conservatives signed a contract (only the MOU under the Liberals) recently, there is nothing the US can do legally, short of pulling the sub-contracting work to Canadian companies. And Boeing has promised similar sized sub-contract work to us if we buy the Super Hornet.

Personally, it's never been about cost - it's about suitability. Since the 1950s, we've demanded twin engine fighters for Arctic patrol - and the F-35 is a single engine plane.
That is a serious liability when patrolling vast stretches of the Arctic.



martin14 wrote:
Didn't Justine vote for C-51 ?
Do you ever wonder why ?


I know why and this isn't the same thing at all. C-51 will assure (as much as anything can be assured with the States) access to the US market.

The F-35 doesn't do that.


Offline
Active Member
Active Member
Profile
Posts: 334
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:48 am
 


martin14 wrote:
Winnipegger wrote:
Just this morning, Rosemary Barton on Power and Politics said we already have $600 million manufacturing contracts, those jobs have already started. Failure to buy the thing will not cancel those contracts.


No, but we will definitely not get anything else, and be reduced to target practise.

Again.

Just like our subs. When they aren't busy sinking.


8O
So you think that will be the end our aerospace industry just because we don't buy the F-35 from Lockheed? I guess there are no other aircraft manufacturers out there that will do business with us. (sarcasm off)


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Montreal Canadiens
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 33691
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:02 pm
 


bootlegga wrote:

Personally, it's never been about cost - it's about suitability. Since the 1950s, we've demanded twin engine fighters for Arctic patrol - and the F-35 is a single engine plane.
That is a serious liability when patrolling vast stretches of the Arctic.


I don't disagree with you; however,

Quote:
I know why and this isn't the same thing at all. C-51 will assure (as much as anything can be assured with the States) access to the US market.

The F-35 doesn't do that.


It's keeps us as a top tier NATO member.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/ ... XD20140606
Quote:
Lockheed is developing three models of the plane for the U.S. military and eight partner countries that helped fund the plane's development - Britain, Australia, Italy, Turkey, the Netherlands, Denmark, Norway and Canada.

South Korea, Japan and Israel have also placed orders for the jet.


Not being involved in the F-35 is the same as our subs being used for target practise
during NATO exercises, second tier stuff.

But, some countries still used biplanes during WW2. :lol:


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Toronto Maple Leafs
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 14116
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:04 pm
 


martin14 wrote:
bootlegga wrote:

Personally, it's never been about cost - it's about suitability. Since the 1950s, we've demanded twin engine fighters for Arctic patrol - and the F-35 is a single engine plane.
That is a serious liability when patrolling vast stretches of the Arctic.


I don't disagree with you; however,

Quote:
I know why and this isn't the same thing at all. C-51 will assure (as much as anything can be assured with the States) access to the US market.

The F-35 doesn't do that.


It's keeps us as a top tier NATO member.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/ ... XD20140606
Quote:
Lockheed is developing three models of the plane for the U.S. military and eight partner countries that helped fund the plane's development - Britain, Australia, Italy, Turkey, the Netherlands, Denmark, Norway and Canada.

South Korea, Japan and Israel have also placed orders for the jet.


Not being involved in the F-35 is the same as our subs being used for target practise
during NATO exercises, second tier stuff.

But, some countries still used biplanes during WW2. :lol:

It was a Swordfish that delivered the fateful torpedo that borked the Bismark's rudder, allowing her to be caught and sunk.


Offline
Active Member
Active Member
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 480
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:57 pm
 


BRAH wrote:
Nice hair though. :lol:


Image

Image


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Montreal Canadiens
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 13404
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:04 pm
 


PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:
martin14 wrote:
bootlegga wrote:

Personally, it's never been about cost - it's about suitability. Since the 1950s, we've demanded twin engine fighters for Arctic patrol - and the F-35 is a single engine plane.
That is a serious liability when patrolling vast stretches of the Arctic.


I don't disagree with you; however,

Quote:
I know why and this isn't the same thing at all. C-51 will assure (as much as anything can be assured with the States) access to the US market.

The F-35 doesn't do that.


It's keeps us as a top tier NATO member.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/ ... XD20140606
Quote:
Lockheed is developing three models of the plane for the U.S. military and eight partner countries that helped fund the plane's development - Britain, Australia, Italy, Turkey, the Netherlands, Denmark, Norway and Canada.

South Korea, Japan and Israel have also placed orders for the jet.


Not being involved in the F-35 is the same as our subs being used for target practise
during NATO exercises, second tier stuff.

But, some countries still used biplanes during WW2. :lol:

It was a Swordfish that delivered the fateful torpedo that borked the Bismark's rudder, allowing her to be caught and sunk.


Swordfish ("Stringbags" to their crews) also helped to sink most of the Italian fleet in the Med.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cape_Matapan

Their suicide run against the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau was horrible, British incompetence reminiscent of the Charge of the Light Brigade.

http://ww2today.com/12th-february-1942- ... annel-dash


Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  1  2  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest




 
     
All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © Canadaka.net. Powered by © phpBB.