[Newsbot]

Title: DND warned of 'dangerous and unsafe' electrical on HMCS Protecteur | CTV News
Category: Military
Posted By: Gunnair
Date: 2014-07-31 17:25:52
Canadian

[Gunnair]

Uh huh...

[Winnipegger]

Um, what? My house was built in 1907. I still have many 2-prong outlets. My house is not so old that it has separate positive and negative conductors held by ceramic insulators. It just has normal 110-volt AC power cables. In the walls. Walls are plaster-lathe. My electrical box looks newer than 1907, but has fuses, the round glass screw-in kind. HMCS Protecteur was laid down in October 1967, launched July 1968, commissioned August 1969. And it's a navy ship. It should definately have electrical work capable of handling naval conditions. Teflon insulation is so good that it just won't degrade; in fact a soldering iron won't melt it. I was shown Teflon insulated wiring in a basement workshop when I was in high school in the 1970s. I would expect navy wiring to use it. So why would this be an issue?

[Gunnair]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Um, what? My house was built in 1907. I still have many 2-prong outlets. My house is not so old that it has separate positive and negative conductors held by ceramic insulators. It just has normal 110-volt AC power cables. In the walls. Walls are plaster-lathe. My electrical box looks newer than 1907, but has fuses, the round glass screw-in kind. HMCS Protecteur was laid down in October 1967, launched July 1968, commissioned August 1969. And it's a navy ship. It should definately have electrical work capable of handling naval conditions. Teflon insulation is so good that it just won't degrade; in fact a soldering iron won't melt it. I was shown Teflon insulated wiring in a basement workshop when I was in high school in the 1970s. I would expect navy wiring to use it. So why would this be an issue?

They should have checked with you I guess.

[Freakinoldguy]

$1:

The navy has refused to say what caused the Feb. 27 fire aboard Protecteur, which left the ship powerless and adrift off Hawaii.

What a load of crap. The Navy hasn't refused to say what caused the fire.

They've refused to speculate on what caused the fire like the media wants and won't give these dipshits any ammunition to slag the military till the Board of Inquiry is complete.

[Jabberwalker]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Um, what? My house was built in 1907. I still have many 2-prong outlets. My house is not so old that it has separate positive and negative conductors held by ceramic insulators. It just has normal 110-volt AC power cables. In the walls. Walls are plaster-lathe. My electrical box looks newer than 1907, but has fuses, the round glass screw-in kind. HMCS Protecteur was laid down in October 1967, launched July 1968, commissioned August 1969. And it's a navy ship. It should definately have electrical work capable of handling naval conditions. Teflon insulation is so good that it just won't degrade; in fact a soldering iron won't melt it. I was shown Teflon insulated wiring in a basement workshop when I was in high school in the 1970s. I would expect navy wiring to use it. So why would this be an issue?

I just thought than I'd point out that re-wiring a (quite large) ship is not quite like doing the new bedroom that was added on to your bungalow. You practically build the ship around the wiring. Why didn't the Navy re-wire Protecteur? Perhaps it's cheaper and easier to build a new ship (that was due anyway).

ps. Those little glass screw-in fuses on Protecteur don't all work anymore because I used pennies instead, here and there, when I ran out of fuses.

[DrCaleb]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Um, what? My house was built in 1907. I still have many 2-prong outlets. My house is not so old that it has separate positive and negative conductors held by ceramic insulators. It just has normal 110-volt AC power cables. In the walls. Walls are plaster-lathe. My electrical box looks newer than 1907, but has fuses, the round glass screw-in kind. HMCS Protecteur was laid down in October 1967, launched July 1968, commissioned August 1969. And it's a navy ship. It should definately have electrical work capable of handling naval conditions.

Military spec wiring is not like commercial grade wiring. It's done that way for specific reasons, and it wears faster because it's put under heavier loads for longer periods that a home.

A house doesn't have to crest waves 4 or 5 stories high. A house doesn't have to survive complete flooding, and still operate normally. A house doesn't have to operate at 110% rated capacity, and do it for hours at a time.

And if your house still has tar and paper wiring and knob and tube junctions without grounds - get it fixed! Soon! It's just waiting to have the same problem as the Protecteur.

[Gunnair]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

$1:

The navy has refused to say what caused the Feb. 27 fire aboard Protecteur, which left the ship powerless and adrift off Hawaii.

What a load of crap. The Navy hasn't refused to say what caused the fire.

They've refused to speculate on what caused the fire like the media wants and won't give these dipshits any ammunition to slag the military till the Board of Inquiry is complete.

An autopsy on a guy who has his head cut off to determine cause of death...

[BartSimpson]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Um, what? My house was built in 1907. I still have many 2-prong outlets. My house is not so old that it has separate positive and negative conductors held by ceramic insulators. It just has normal 110-volt AC power cables. In the walls. Walls are plaster-lathe. My electrical box looks newer than 1907, but has fuses, the round glass screw-in kind. HMCS Protecteur was laid down in October 1967, launched July 1968, commissioned August 1969. And it's a navy ship. It should definately have electrical work capable of handling naval conditions. Teflon insulation is so good that it just won't degrade; in fact a soldering iron won't melt it. I was shown Teflon insulated wiring in a basement workshop when I was in high school in the 1970s. I would expect navy wiring to use it. So why would this be an issue?

Because:

1. There probably wasn't a Canadian firm capable of producing Teflon insulated wiring at the time and no one in the CF would even imagine buying it from the USA.

2. Governments tend to buy their stuff from the lowest bidder. And if the lowest bidder was going to use leftover wiring from WW1 then so be it as long as not one extra penny was diverted from social welfare and healthcare for an awful weapon.

3. By the mid-1960's hardly any Canadians gave a damn about their navy so why bother spending any actual money on a decent ship?

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Military spec wiring is not like commercial grade wiring. It's done that way for specific reasons, and it wears faster because it's put under heavier loads for longer periods that a home.

Our unit used to put up our own money to buy upgraded parts and electrical for our LAV's. The parts would be purchased at local auto parts stores and then plenty of the wiring would have to be wrapped with conduit or electrical tape to stop it wearing out by just rubbing on things while the LAV was moving.

And then our big battle was fighting with the Neanderthals in the ******* motor pool who had a mindless compulsion to always want to put everything right back to spec.

Dumshitgorilla Dumshitgorilla:

"Duhhhh, me read manual and can't think for myself."

The best part about getting my temporary promotion to Lt. bird was getting to say things to drooling motor pool sargeants like, "What's the problem with our ride, corporal?"

That was too much fun!

But even in the US you get equipment that's bleeding edge tech but then bashed up with crap components that cost the DoD 1000 times what a far better part can be had for at the average retail outlet.

Just how governments work, I suppose.

Edit: Just wanted to add that in the 1st Gulf War the Abrams and the Bradleys kept getting screwed up with sand and dust. The guys in the field quicky figured it out and solved the problem by just putting panty hose over the filters. The eventual DoD solution that still doesn't work as good cost some $1.6 billion to figure out and then another $3 billion to refit all of the armor.

For our LAV's we just used a K&N filter that was designed for heavy construction equipment. It was easy to install, easy to clean, and they never failed. Also only cost like around $400 to $500 per vehicle.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Our unit used to put up our own money to buy upgraded parts and electrical for our LAV's. The parts would be purchased at local auto parts stores and then plenty of the wiring would have to be wrapped with conduit or electrical tape to stop it wearing out by just rubbing on things while the LAV was moving.

It's amazing how a $2 part can cut into profits, isn't it!

I did a couple summers at the Alberta Research council, and they had us do some mil-spec stuff that required all the wiring in the units were tied together and to posts using waxed thread. That's the treatment things like the Apollo and Shuttle missions got.

But I'll bet that to this day, that wiring is still 100% functional even if it's been bouncing up and down on gravel roads for decades.

I did a server rack that way once, with custom length cables and wrapped with wax thread. Looked beautiful, but I'll bet the guy who had to take it apart wanted me dead.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Our unit used to put up our own money to buy upgraded parts and electrical for our LAV's. The parts would be purchased at local auto parts stores and then plenty of the wiring would have to be wrapped with conduit or electrical tape to stop it wearing out by just rubbing on things while the LAV was moving.

It's amazing how a $2 part can cut into profits, isn't it!

I did a couple summers at the Alberta Research council, and they had us do some mil-spec stuff that required all the wiring in the units were tied together and to posts using waxed thread. That's the treatment things like the Apollo and Shuttle missions got.

But I'll bet that to this day, that wiring is still 100% functional even if it's been bouncing up and down on gravel roads for decades.

I did a server rack that way once, with custom length cables and wrapped with wax thread. Looked beautiful, but I'll bet the guy who had to take it apart wanted me dead.

These days this is what I use on cabling:

http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-1 ... lsrc=aw.ds

[bootlegga]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Because:

1. There probably wasn't a Canadian firm capable of producing Teflon insulated wiring at the time and no one in the CF would even imagine buying it from the USA.

No, it was more likely knee jerk protectionism that says we have to buy most/all our stuff in Canada - you know just like the US does. If it had been deemed necessary, we would have made a company set up shop here (and subsidized it), bought it for an inflated price and then watched as they closed up shop a year or two after the contract ended.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

2. Governments tend to buy their stuff from the lowest bidder. And if the lowest bidder was going to use leftover wiring from WW1 then so be it as long as not one extra penny was diverted from social welfare and healthcare for an awful weapon.

You're off by a decade.

Until the 70s, Canada spent like a drunken sailor on defence, maintaining 12 squadrons of aircraft and a full mechanized brigade in Europe as well as a 60 ship navy that was well-trained and full of almost brand-new equipment. Canada spent tens of billions of dollars over 40 years to fulfill its NATO commitment.

It wasn't until Trudeau got into power that we let our military commitments slide.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

3. By the mid-1960's hardly any Canadians gave a damn about their navy so why bother spending any actual money on a decent ship?

Again, you're off by a decade.

In the mid-60s, we were buying SeaKings, building three AORs, four DDHs and a number of FFHs. We even had a small carrier until the end of the decade. We also pioneered flying big helos off small ships, so I would hardly say we didn't care.

If you're going to bash us, at least understand the history so you can do it properly!

[Gunnair]

bootlegga bootlegga:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Because:

1. There probably wasn't a Canadian firm capable of producing Teflon insulated wiring at the time and no one in the CF would even imagine buying it from the USA.

No, it was more likely knee jerk protectionism that says we have to buy most/all our stuff in Canada - you know just like the US does. If it had been deemed necessary, we would have made a company set up shop here (and subsidized it), bought it for an inflated price and then watched as they closed up shop a year or two after the contract ended.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

2. Governments tend to buy their stuff from the lowest bidder. And if the lowest bidder was going to use leftover wiring from WW1 then so be it as long as not one extra penny was diverted from social welfare and healthcare for an awful weapon.

You're off by a decade.

Until the 70s, Canada spent like a drunken sailor on defence, maintaining 12 squadrons of aircraft and a full mechanized brigade in Europe as well as a 60 ship navy that was well-trained and full of almost brand-new equipment. Canada spent tens of billions of dollars over 40 years to fulfill its NATO commitment.

It wasn't until Trudeau got into power that we let our military commitments slide.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

3. By the mid-1960's hardly any Canadians gave a damn about their navy so why bother spending any actual money on a decent ship?

Again, you're off by a decade.

In the mid-60s, we were buying SeaKings, building three AORs, four DDHs and a number of FFHs. We even had a small carrier until the end of the decade. We also pioneered flying big helos off small ships, so I would hardly say we didn't care.

If you're going to bash us, at least understand the history so you can do it properly!

Don't hold your breath.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Our unit used to put up our own money to buy upgraded parts and electrical for our LAV's. The parts would be purchased at local auto parts stores and then plenty of the wiring would have to be wrapped with conduit or electrical tape to stop it wearing out by just rubbing on things while the LAV was moving.

It's amazing how a $2 part can cut into profits, isn't it!

I did a couple summers at the Alberta Research council, and they had us do some mil-spec stuff that required all the wiring in the units were tied together and to posts using waxed thread. That's the treatment things like the Apollo and Shuttle missions got.

But I'll bet that to this day, that wiring is still 100% functional even if it's been bouncing up and down on gravel roads for decades.

I did a server rack that way once, with custom length cables and wrapped with wax thread. Looked beautiful, but I'll bet the guy who had to take it apart wanted me dead.

These days this is what I use on cabling:

http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-1 ... lsrc=aw.ds

Yup! I make our suppliers throw in a roll or two when we buy new racks and servers from them. Bonus points if they also get blue, red and yellow to match the different cables.

(was looking at some really sexy Hitachi stuff yesterday . . .for $800k, they better throw in a $25 roll or two of Velcro!)