[Axeman]

$1:

I disagree with you. Education is the key and teenagers are not assholes. Teenagers take risks because they're exercising their independence, but stupid - no. We learn from our mistakes and it's our job to inform the next generation what we found through our own trials. Smoking kills and we should be promoting that to our children. If you sent your teenager out 'to explore their world' without giving them any guidance, they'd be fighting blind. I'm not disagreeing with making cigarettes unavailable to them - but it's only one facet of prevention and education is the other.

Kids already know smoking is dangerous. So, education is not the key. Teenagers, even smart ones, are self-centred, live-in-the-moment, lying, risk-taking assholes. Virtually everything they do is based on fitting in socially and selfishness. Now, I could go into the brain-development, scientific reasons why that is, but it's a fact.

[Canadian_Mind]

Axeman Axeman:

No, I disagree. Education is not the key. The reason I disagree is that teenagers are assholes. PERIOD. That's the defining characteristic of a teenager. You know how you can tell when a teenager is lying? Its lips are moving. Teenagers are too dumb to know it's bad for them, even when they KNOW. They're too dumb to know that driving around like a retard will get them into accidents. They're too dumb to know most things. So, the only way to prevent kids from starting to smoke is to make cigarettes unavailable to them.

Your th asshole thats generalising all of them, which is why half of them do stupid shit in the first place... Because it is expected of them.

And making shit "unavailable" wont change things. A kid can aquire legally unavailable cigarettes like he can aquire weed.

Axeman Axeman:

Kids already know smoking is dangerous. So, education is not the key. Teenagers, even smart ones, are self-centred, live-in-the-moment, lying, risk-taking assholes. Virtually everything they do is based on fitting in socially and selfishness. Now, I could go into the brain-development, scientific reasons why that is, but it's a fact.

Everything people do is based on fitting in socially. I quickly found this out when moving on from school to the work place, which in my case was army life. I also find this out by observing social interactions in bars, clubs, and pubs. People at any age will do anything they can to fit in, so don't generalise just teens for that.

[travior]

No disagreements here

[Axeman]

$1:

Your th asshole thats generalising all of them, which is why half of them do stupid shit in the first place... Because it is expected of them.

I'm responsible for all the stupid shit kids do? Wow, I didn't know I had that much influence on ANYONE.

[Canadian_Mind]

Axeman Axeman:

$1:

Your th asshole thats generalising all of them, which is why half of them do stupid shit in the first place... Because it is expected of them.

I'm responsible for all the stupid shit kids do? Wow, I didn't know I had that much influence on ANYONE.

No, everyone who generalises teenagers are responsible, not just you. You aren't that special, atleast not in that way.

Merry Christmas eh.

[thirteen31]

Axeman Axeman:

Kids already know smoking is dangerous. So, education is not the key.

How would kids already know unless we educate them.

Axeman Axeman:

Teenagers, even smart ones, are self-centred, live-in-the-moment, lying, risk-taking assholes. Virtually everything they do is based on fitting in socially and selfishness. Now, I could go into the brain-development, scientific reasons why that is, but it's a fact.

Fact? Sounds more like your opinion. Do you have children of your own?

[Axeman]

thirteen31 thirteen31:

Axeman Axeman:

Kids already know smoking is dangerous. So, education is not the key.

How would kids already know unless we educate them.

Axeman Axeman:

Teenagers, even smart ones, are self-centred, live-in-the-moment, lying, risk-taking assholes. Virtually everything they do is based on fitting in socially and selfishness. Now, I could go into the brain-development, scientific reasons why that is, but it's a fact.

Fact? Sounds more like your opinion. Do you have children of your own?

By the time kids get to highschool, they usually DO NOT smoke and certainly HAVE BEEN educated about the dangers of smoking. Yet they do smoke anyway, so the education isn't working.

You should read some Garfield Gini-Newman's (U of T) research on adolescent brain development. It's scientific fact that teenagers undergo a "shedding" of brain matter that is replaced into adulthood. It's rather like the same thing that happens in 2 year olds (we parents call it the "Terrible Twos"). It's a physiological change, characterized in teenagers by selfishness, lying, fatigue and social anxiety. I chose to call it "being assholes", but it's not my opinion. It's a scientific fact. It's my experience, and yours and everyone else's, whether we remember it or not. And yes, I have 3 children of my own.

[thirteen31]

Axeman Axeman:

By the time kids get to highschool, they usually DO NOT smoke and certainly HAVE BEEN educated about the dangers of smoking. Yet they do smoke anyway, so the education isn't working.

I still think education is necessary. The province that I live in now has banned the classic 'cigarette counter' and must have these shelves containing tobacco covered at all times. There are harsher fines for those who are caught selling tobacco to a minor and this includes those that are caught purchasing tobacco for a minor even if you are not a retailer. The question I want to know is: Are you abandoning these just because they don't work? Education got us this far and education will take us further. Being negative towards the efforts that are in place now should only invite more education into improving and making advances - not abandoning all hope.

Axeman Axeman:

You should read some Garfield Gini-Newman's (U of T) research on adolescent brain development. It's scientific fact that teenagers undergo a "shedding" of brain matter that is replaced into adulthood. It's rather like the same thing that happens in 2 year olds (we parents call it the "Terrible Twos"). It's a physiological change, characterized in teenagers by selfishness, lying, fatigue and social anxiety. I chose to call it "being assholes", but it's not my opinion. It's a scientific fact. It's my experience, and yours and everyone else's, whether we remember it or not. And yes, I have 3 children of my own.

I don't disagree that there is a physiological change, and thank you for the reference - I probably will check it out. However, I do disagree calling "being assholes" as being a scientific fact - that is your opinion and not a positive one at that. Do you let them know how you feel, I mean, really do you call them "assholes"?

[Axeman]

$1:

I don't disagree that there is a physiological change, and thank you for the reference - I probably will check it out. However, I do disagree calling "being assholes" as being a scientific fact - that is your opinion and not a positive one at that. Do you let them know how you feel, I mean, really do you call them "assholes"?

I call ANYONE who is a self-centred, liar an asshole...that, fortunately, is a small percentage of adults, but 99% of teenagers. Do I call SPECIFIC teenagers assholes to their faces? Of course not, I'm a polite gentleman. I may also be speaking to one of the 1% of teenagers that doesn't fall into the category.

Btw, I'm a newbie...how do you quote, like you did in your post (with my text boxed in)? I haven't learned how to work the program very well yet.

[roger-roger]

[quote="name"]

[thirteen31]

Axeman Axeman:

I call ANYONE who is a self-centred, liar an asshole...that, fortunately, is a small percentage of adults, but 99% of teenagers. Do I call SPECIFIC teenagers assholes to their faces? Of course not, I'm a polite gentleman. I may also be speaking to one of the 1% of teenagers that doesn't fall into the category.

I am not a teenager - I am the mother of one and I am proud to say that I do not share your opinion about 99% of teens being assholes. What do you mean when you say 'polite'? Has someone made you feel that you were self-centred or a liar - you seem really insistent into believing that this means 'asshole'?

[Axeman]

thirteen31 thirteen31:

Axeman Axeman:

I call ANYONE who is a self-centred, liar an asshole...that, fortunately, is a small percentage of adults, but 99% of teenagers. Do I call SPECIFIC teenagers assholes to their faces? Of course not, I'm a polite gentleman. I may also be speaking to one of the 1% of teenagers that doesn't fall into the category.

I am not a teenager - I am the mother of one and I am proud to say that I do not share your opinion about 99% of teens being assholes. What do you mean when you say 'polite'? Has someone made you feel that you were self-centred or a liar - you seem really insistent into believing that this means 'asshole'?

Okay, you're sounding a little hostile, but does your teenager lie to you? Did you lie when you were a teenager? There's two possible answers: "yes" or "I am still a liar".

[thirteen31]

Axeman Axeman:

Okay, you're sounding a little hostile, but does your teenager lie to you? Did you lie when you were a teenager? There's two possible answers: "yes" or "I am still a liar".

I'm not hostile at all, just the opposite and trying to understand your perspective. First, you claim that it is scientific fact that all teens are liars, and then classify it as "being assholes" and basing it on this scientific fact. That is what I am interpreting from your message, if this is not what you want to convey, then you may need to reword your responses. From my perspective, 'lying' is a learned behaviour - where do you think your teens learned it from?

Do my teens lie to me? Sure, probably, does it make them an asshole? No. Did I lie as a teen? Sure, probably, but it's in the past and I can't change it. Would I make better choices if I had to make those decisions over again - yeah, probably.

[Axeman]

thirteen31 thirteen31:

Axeman Axeman:

Okay, you're sounding a little hostile, but does your teenager lie to you? Did you lie when you were a teenager? There's two possible answers: "yes" or "I am still a liar".

I'm not hostile at all, just the opposite and trying to understand your perspective. First, you claim that it is scientific fact that all teens are liars, and then classify it as "being assholes" and basing it on this scientific fact. That is what I am interpreting from your message, if this is not what you want to convey, then you may need to reword your responses. From my perspective, 'lying' is a learned behaviour - where do you think your teens learned it from?

Do my teens lie to me? Sure, probably, does it make them an asshole? No. Did I lie as a teen? Sure, probably, but it's in the past and I can't change it. Would I make better choices if I had to make those decisions over again - yeah, probably.

you know what, just re-read what I wrote. If you're still at variance with, well, that's the way it's gonna be.

[thirteen31]

I would also like to point out that it's important to help your children realize the consequences of their actions. I would be more inclined to find out what would cause my child to lie and help them to work out the issue rather than just reprimanding them. Sometimes, the act of lying itself is a form of expression and there is a reason for it. To prevent them from continuing, you would need to help them to recognize why it's not necessary to lie - it doesn't provide any solutions to the problem, etc.