[-Mario-]

SigPig SigPig:

The eurofighter has the ability to fight beyond visual range, so it doesnt need to get "up close and personal". Not to mention that the internal payload of the f-35 is only 4 hardpoints whereas the eurofighter has 13 hardpoints. The f-35 can have 6 more on the wings but then stealth is shot if that is what you are going for.

The eurofighter also has a longer range than the JSF by 200 km, which is beneficial in Canada's case due to our size. It also has a greater top speed (mach 1.6 for the JSF vs mach 2.0 for EF), which any pilot will tell you is one of the most important assets you can have. Plus the Eurofighter has a 1.18 thrust to weight ratio versus the 0.86 of the JSF. Again, a HUGE adavatage to any fighter.

In other words the EF is a superior fighter in just about any repect. And all this can be bought for $45-50 million, whereas the JSF is expected to cost about $50-60 million by the time its done.

So ya I am serious and these are some of the reasons why.

We both know that it is not the CAF that is gonna purchase the next jet. Its our polititians

[SigPig]

-Mario- -Mario-:

SigPig SigPig:

The eurofighter has the ability to fight beyond visual range, so it doesnt need to get "up close and personal". Not to mention that the internal payload of the f-35 is only 4 hardpoints whereas the eurofighter has 13 hardpoints. The f-35 can have 6 more on the wings but then stealth is shot if that is what you are going for.

The eurofighter also has a longer range than the JSF by 200 km, which is beneficial in Canada's case due to our size. It also has a greater top speed (mach 1.6 for the JSF vs mach 2.0 for EF), which any pilot will tell you is one of the most important assets you can have. Plus the Eurofighter has a 1.18 thrust to weight ratio versus the 0.86 of the JSF. Again, a HUGE adavatage to any fighter.

In other words the EF is a superior fighter in just about any repect. And all this can be bought for $45-50 million, whereas the JSF is expected to cost about $50-60 million by the time its done.

So ya I am serious and these are some of the reasons why.

We both know that it is not the CAF that is gonna purchase the next jet. Its our polititians

Unfortunately that's true. Lets just hope they don't use the smae person who thought the LSVW was a good idea.

[sandorski]

-Mario- -Mario-:

SigPig SigPig:

The eurofighter has the ability to fight beyond visual range, so it doesnt need to get "up close and personal". Not to mention that the internal payload of the f-35 is only 4 hardpoints whereas the eurofighter has 13 hardpoints. The f-35 can have 6 more on the wings but then stealth is shot if that is what you are going for.

The eurofighter also has a longer range than the JSF by 200 km, which is beneficial in Canada's case due to our size. It also has a greater top speed (mach 1.6 for the JSF vs mach 2.0 for EF), which any pilot will tell you is one of the most important assets you can have. Plus the Eurofighter has a 1.18 thrust to weight ratio versus the 0.86 of the JSF. Again, a HUGE adavatage to any fighter.

In other words the EF is a superior fighter in just about any repect. And all this can be bought for $45-50 million, whereas the JSF is expected to cost about $50-60 million by the time its done.

So ya I am serious and these are some of the reasons why.

We both know that it is not the CAF that is gonna purchase the next jet. Its our polititians

Let's give Pilots a Cash Card. Let them decide.

[saturn_656]

SigPig SigPig:

In other words the EF is a superior fighter in just about any repect. And all this can be bought for $45-50 million, whereas the JSF is expected to cost about $50-60 million by the time its done.

So ya I am serious and these are some of the reasons why.

Maybe the EF can be bought for 50 million UK POUNDS... you want to look at how much it will cost us in dollars you are in for a little shock.

[SigPig]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

SigPig SigPig:

In other words the EF is a superior fighter in just about any repect. And all this can be bought for $45-50 million, whereas the JSF is expected to cost about $50-60 million by the time its done.

So ya I am serious and these are some of the reasons why.

Maybe the EF can be bought for 50 million UK POUNDS... you want to look at how much it will cost us in dollars you are in for a little shock.

Well, I looked up the price in USD and I found $63 million USD. That is only 3 million more than the JSF and I think the JSF will cost more by the time its done. But still 3 million more isn' bad considering how much better the specs are for the EF.

[Winnipegger]

Wait a minute, the F-35A costs MORE than the Typhoon!? Then why would we want the F-35?

[mixedfarmer]

i still vote build our own military equipment. If you get in a war with the country you bought the equipment from where in the hell are you gonna get the parts to keep them running?

[Red_Eye]

mixedfarmer mixedfarmer:

i still vote build our own military equipment. If you get in a war with the country you bought the equipment from where in the hell are you gonna get the parts to keep them running?

that would be great to counter a brain drain we have here but on the other hand its a political can of worms.

[SigPig]

Red_Eye Red_Eye:

mixedfarmer mixedfarmer:

i still vote build our own military equipment. If you get in a war with the country you bought the equipment from where in the hell are you gonna get the parts to keep them running?

that would be great to counter a brain drain we have here but on the other hand its a political can of worms.

Canada doesn't have the resources to develop our own equipment. The only countries that really do that now are the US and Russia. Its just to expensive these days for us to do on our own. Even European countries are getting together, I mean they dont even build a chopper on their own anymore.

Not to mention, what are the odds we are going to war with the US or all of Europe. And lets say that we do, Canada has the ability to maintain its equipment at home once we get it. Spare parts can be manufactured here if it came to that. We just can't design the whole thing on our own.

[Red_Eye]

SigPig SigPig:

Red_Eye Red_Eye:

mixedfarmer mixedfarmer:

i still vote build our own military equipment. If you get in a war with the country you bought the equipment from where in the hell are you gonna get the parts to keep them running?

that would be great to counter a brain drain we have here but on the other hand its a political can of worms.

Canada doesn't have the resources to develop our own equipment. The only countries that really do that now are the US and Russia. Its just to expensive these days for us to do on our own. Even European countries are getting together, I mean they dont even build a chopper on their own anymore.

good point.

[sniper1shot]

I had heard that Canada has thrown some money in to the US fighter being developed.

[Loader]

Something to also consider is Air to Air (AAR) refuelling. Canada currently has 5 HT model Hercs configured for AAR, and 2 Airbus A310s that have been configured, but are not yet operational, although that should happen this year. Both these tanker aircraft use a drogue system that requires the receiver aircraft to have an on-board probe to plug into the drogue basket.

As far as I know, both the F22 & F35 can only be refuelled via a boom and receptacle method, where the receiver aircraft has a receptacle and the tanker aircraft has a boom operator who flys the boom into the receptacle. I think the Gripen just passed it’s trials to be refuelled from a Herc, but don’t know about the rest.

[uwish]

While I think the f-35 is in the lead, I doubt any serious consideration will be happening much before 2010 to 2015. I do think the F-35 is a good all round AC however, it lacks multi-engine capability which was considered essential in Canada.

I REALLY like the specs on the Typhoon. I think it would be a much better fit for Canada than the F-35.

F-22 are not practical simply due to the massive cost. The US is only getting 180 ish of them plus right now, they can not legally export it.

[mapleleafsnation]

The problem is that buying a new fighter to replace the fleet will be way too costly.

Canada is not a country that can maintain air superiority. We need our allies to provide it for us. Thus when we buy a new fighter we have to take into account in what scenarios we will need them:

1- Our fighters will not be fighting the world's shinniest (by this I mean newest generation) fighters. The RCAF will never go up against F-22, F-35, Rafales or Typhoons. Which is a good thing. In the next half century we'll probably go up against what are considered second generation jet fighters (F-18, F-15, F-16, Mirage 2000 and all kind of migs). If we go for F-22, we will have about 10. Pretty worthless to cover the second largest country in the world.

2- The missions they will do. The RCAF does not have the budget to get a large 'insert name here' fleet. This is why they picked the multirole F-18. Getting pure fighters is useless because fighters are meant to maintain air superiority (or even dominance) to allow the bombers to do their jobs. If there was no bombers, fighters would be useless. The next thing is, our allies will keep air superiority for us, so why get pure fighters like the F-22 and Eurofighters? However what we need to do ourselves is close-air support. While the CF-18 can do it, it can be outmatched by other aircrafts.

So I'm doing the thesis that we need attacker aircrafts for close-air support because we do not have the capacity to get a big enough fighter fleet.

A versatile aircraft.
A low maintenance aircraft.
A cheap aircraft.

Those are three qualities we need, additionally to the close-air support capabilities.

Right now I feel that no new generation aircrafts can fit this task better than the F-18. The F-16 is better but it's not worth changing our fleet into a 30 years old aircraft.

Money will be a huge issue here (let's not forget we still have to change our seakings).

[uwish]

we never had nor will have total air superiority. There are only two maybe three nations on earth that can claim they do or have the capability to back it up.

At any rate, the new fleet would have to be in the 150+ numbers to be worth anything in the battlefield. Other than that is what we have now, a token fighter force.