[mapleleafsnation]

Exactly so we must not focus on fighter aircrafts.

But it doesn't need to be huge, I would say 105 aircrafts (40 on each coast, 20 for operations and 5 for training) could do the job.

The number of aircrafts required for close air support is relative to the size of the army, anything over a certain number per men on the ground is overkill (in the sense that yes it's good, but that extra aircraft isn't doing as much good as the first one, like the fifth person who's helping you lift those heavy furniture pieces).

[saturn_656]

mapleleafsnation mapleleafsnation:

The problem is that buying a new fighter to replace the fleet will be way too costly.

Canada is not a country that can maintain air superiority. We need our allies to provide it for us. Thus when we buy a new fighter we have to take into account in what scenarios we will need them:

If thats the attitude we are going to have towards national defence, might as well as disband the CF and not bother...

$1:

1- Our fighters will not be fighting the world's shinniest (by this I mean newest generation) fighters. The RCAF will never go up against F-22, F-35, Rafales or Typhoons. Which is a good thing. In the next half century we'll probably go up against what are considered second generation jet fighters (F-18, F-15, F-16, Mirage 2000 and all kind of migs). If we go for F-22, we will have about 10. Pretty worthless to cover the second largest country in the world.

Don't bet on that, the F-35 will be going to all kinds of countries, and the French will sell to damn near anybody who will pony up the cash. Libya is looking to be the first export sale. I can see the adverts now... RAFALE - Four out of five despots agree, the best fighter a dictatorship could buy!

$1:

2- The missions they will do. The RCAF does not have the budget to get a large 'insert name here' fleet. This is why they picked the multirole F-18. Getting pure fighters is useless because fighters are meant to maintain air superiority (or even dominance) to allow the bombers to do their jobs. If there was no bombers, fighters would be useless. The next thing is, our allies will keep air superiority for us, so why get pure fighters like the F-22 and Eurofighters? However what we need to do ourselves is close-air support. While the CF-18 can do it, it can be outmatched by other aircrafts.

Look over your research again, the Typhoon is not a pure fighter. Even the F-22 has secondary ground attack capability.

And if we are going to have the US responsible for our defence (I can't think of any other country that could or would do it), we might as well as just say "screw it" and become a state.

$1:

Right now I feel that no new generation aircrafts can fit this task better than the F-18. The F-16 is better but it's not worth changing our fleet into a 30 years old aircraft.

Yeah... too bad the Hornets are wearing out and are going to have to be replaced in the near future eh. I will be so bloody ashamed of Canada if it turns out "we" don't even have the will to properly arm and defend ourselves.

We'll be another god damn New Zealand...

[Can2]

The reason we want the F-35A over the F-22 is not the original purchase price but the maintenance cost of the F-22 would be more than we could handle and its' air frame and engine life with all the extra G-force etc. of vector thrust will only be half of the F-35A.

The F-35A is an exceptional strike fighter and it will be the plane that we replace the cf-18 with. It is as was the cf-18 the best choice.

[kal]

Not to mention the fact that the USA isn't exporting the F-22.

[Tokimini]

kal kal:

Not to mention the fact that the USA isn't exporting the F-22.

I believe Congress is considering allowing them to be exported to Japan and Austrailia. Other than Great Britain I don't think any other country would be allowed to buy them.

[kal]

The US was going to export them to Australia and they cancelled the deal.

[Ruxpercnd]

Brazil launches plan to buy new jet fighters
Thu Jul 3, 2008 2:33pm EDT
By Raymond Colitt

BRASILIA, July 3 (Reuters) - Brazil's air force has launched the process to buy at least 36 fighter jets as part of a broader plan to modernize after most of its neighbors overhauled their fleets, officials said on Thursday.

Brazil wants to buy and build equipment to defend offshore oil assets and a porous Amazon border threatened by armed drug-traffickers and foreign guerrillas.

In February, Colombia ordered 24 Kfir bomber jets from Israel, while Venezuela acquired 24 Russian Sukhoi jets and said last month it is considering buying more. Chile bought new Boeing F-16s and Peru decided to upgrade its jets.

Upon taking office in January 2003, President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva scrapped plans to replace aging Mirage jets, saying he would use the money to feed the poor.

Now, the air force wants a multi-role fighter to replace its entire fleet of fighter jets over the next 15 years. That could increase the size of the order to more than 100 aircraft.

It chose six manufacturers to participate in the procurement process and last month requested information on their aircraft, the Air Force press department said.

The six selected models are Boeing's (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) F-18 Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin's (LMT.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) F-35 Lightning II, Dassault's (AVMD.PA: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) Rafale, Sukhoi's SU-35, Saab's (SAABb.ST: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) Gripen and Eurofighter's Typhoon.

Brazil is seeking a generous technology transfer package, possibly including local assembly, to help develop its own aviation industry and perform maintenance of the aircraft.

"Technology transfer is not a problem. Eurofighter has a history of partnership with its clients," said Valerio Bonelli, spokesman for Alenia, a partner in the Eurofighter consortium.

Boeing and Lockheed said they also were willing to support local industry development.

"The F-35 was designed from the outset to be an exportable product and the program has broken a lot of ground in the technology transfer realm," said John Kent, a spokesman for Lockheed Martin.

But the U.S. government, which would buy the aircraft from Boeing or Lockheed and sell it to the Brazilian government, has the last word on technology transfer.

Brazil has been leading an effort to create a South American Defense Council to help coordinate arms purchases. Though many of its neighbors have recently renewed their fleets, some manufactures still see Latin America's largest economy as possible regional defense hub.

"Brazil is an emerging market and a potential export base for us," said Damian Hills, spokesman for Boeing Integrated Defense Systems.

Brazil is already negotiating a strategic defense alliance with France, including the construction of a nuclear-powered submarine in Brazil. (Editing by Alan Elsner)

[uwish]

kal kal:

The US was going to export them to Australia and they cancelled the deal.

under current US law they are not able to export that technology.

period.

[ccstrong]

Which Fighter is the Best?

Stay with the CF-18 - A Good Short Term Choice but their starting to fall out of the sky
F-22 Raptor - In My Opinion The best Fighter in the world But Unfortinatly since it is techinally a stealth fighter not aviable
F-35 Joint Strike Fighter - Our best current option plus our goverment has invested alot of money in it already
JAS-39 Gripen - A Buitiful aircraft and is great at performing but unfortenitaly it isint as good as any american aircraft
Dassault Rafale - an Ok Plane but doesn't have a good range
Eurofighter Typhoon - This would be my first non american choice
Su-30MK Sukhoi - DON"T BUY RUSSIAN WERE NOT COMMUNIST OR FORMER COMMUNIST PLUS THE AMERICANS WOULD KILL US
Mig-29 Fulcrum - see one above
Canada Doesn't Need Fighters - Whover wrote voted for this are braindead Canada Needs fighters so we can have an airforce

[uwish]

F-35 is single engine, it's biggest draw back

I like the Eurofighter out of all the options. Even if the F-22 was available it is too cost prohibitive to have any in significant quantity to defend a nation as large as Canada.

[Rable2136]

CF-18; I love the CF-18..but don't get ur hopes up yet. All of us will probably be dead by the time we replace these things (by which time the Seakings will still be in service) thats how our governemt does things..we replace things..takes them forever to replace anything.

Personally, I can't picture Canada using any other aircraft other than American. Our best best, the most likely will probably be the Super Hornet. The F-35 is a nice aircraft but the single engine is a major drawback.

I was talking to a pilot in the Air Force on Youtube not long ago..thats when I first heard tell we might be buying Russian aircraft (this is extreamly unlikely)

Also, we don't put enough money in our military to run the F-22s..

[Bacardi4206]

Maybe if Obama is elected, and re-news the NAFTA agreement. Canada can have a more open mind regarding trading with other countries rather then being dependant on the U.S.

Did you know that if you train as a Aerospace Engineer, you cannot get a job because there is none?

All we do is trade with America, and they already depend on there own companys and engineers and don't need Canadian ones. I mean current day Avro Arrow anybody? I think we would be good at that field.

If we opened trade to the world, and stop depending on the U.S. for trade. We could re-open some of these jobs again, which would increase our economy and give citizens more jobs. Will even help with immigration as when people cannot find jobs in there own country, they look to other countries for jobs and bring there training and expertise with them.

Just like how we buy Switzerland, Germany, etc Military vehicles, if we made decent military designs. If countries like them, they can do the same back.

We are America's Bitches, our country is only there to support America. It's really pathetic. If I know the Canadian Government regarding military, which I believe I do. There next move would be either to scrap the Airforce, since its too expensive for them to maintain a more modern one or pay for a cheap repair and upgrade for our current ones and call it a day.

[Rable2136]

Bacardi4206..I agree with you..exept the immigration thing..we have enough people here from different countries. What we need is a strong government who can re-form our pathetic military and rebuild our econmey and lossen the grip the US has over us.

Personally, I think we should try making our own fighters and why stop there? If other countries can do it, we sure as hell can.

[uwish]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

We are America's Bitches, our country is only there to support America. It's really pathetic. If I know the Canadian Government regarding military, which I believe I do. There next move would be either to scrap the Airforce, since its too expensive for them to maintain a more modern one or pay for a cheap repair and upgrade for our current ones and call it a day.

already done that, they did the 5 year 2 billion dollar CF-18 upgrades in two phases.

we now have 80 upgraded, operational fighters.

not that they could really do anything in a country as large as ours.

Since the 80's the CF has been a token force at best. The current government is the only one since then that has appeared to give two shits about it.

[bootlegga]

uwish uwish:

The current government is the only one since then that has appeared to give two shits about it.

Correction, they only seem to give a shit about the army. The couldn't give a flying fuck about the other two services.

New tanks? No problem!
Transport planes to support Afghanistan? No problem!
New UAVs for Afghanistan? No problem!
SAR planes for Canada? Fuck no!
Icebreakers for the Arctic? Fuck no!
JSS ships for the navy? Fuck no!
New DDHs for the navy? Fuck no!