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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 6:56 pm
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Winnipegger Winnipegger:
Early on medical researchers found hydroxychloroquine works.


No. There has never been a medical study that showed hydroxychloroquine made any positive difference to anyone suffering from COVID-19, and in fact the side effects from it can be harmful. You can look up the studies I quoted the in the COVID-19 thread.

Then try reading again. I cited the studies that show it *DOES* work. You're falling for American political propaganda. Allowing American politics to affect Canadian health policy is disgusting.

By the way, Joe Biden has already ruled that hydroxychloroquine can be used in American hospitals. When Donald Trump says it, that must mean it doesn't work. When Joe Biden says it, then it must. Getting the point?


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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 7:22 pm
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
$1:
In the 60-page decision, Hinkson found that while provincial health officer Dr. Bonnie Henry’s ban on in-person worship did constitute an infringement on religious groups’ charter rights to freedom of religion...

Any "but" is irrelevant. It is an infringement. Period. Full stop. Any "but" simply illustrates my point, that Canadian values are being destroyed.

Government is arresting people and/or issuing draconian fines. Their excuse is "It's the law". The Canadian Federal Constitution is the supreme law of Canada, the Charter was embedded in the Constitution specifically to ensure it can't be ignored. Violating the Constitution just because it's inconvenient? They're violating the law. Period.

What if someone drives on a road faster than the posted speed limit. Their excuse is they were late for a meeting. The speed limit was inconvenient so they don't have to obey it? Sound ridiculous? That's exactly the argument the government is now using for violating the Charter.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Winnipegger Winnipegger:
- Anyone who posts a video on YouTube that challenges China's official story about how COVID started, has the video taken down. And they can have their channel cancelled. Liberal Minister claims bill C-10 will not do that, but it's already happening on YouTube. Bill C-10 will spread this crap to all social media. Censorship is violation of Freedom of Expression.

Anyone posting a video that MMR vaccines cause autism will also have it taken down, and for the same reason. Because it's conspiracy bullshit.

You haven't done your research. The Winnipeg virus lab sampled a patient in hospital in India who had novel corona virus. Then a researcher who worked at the Winnipeg lab was caught carrying information on her laptop to the virus lab in Wuhan China. She was expelled from Canada in July. In August the intelligence service of Taiwan found an unusual number of cars parked in parking lots of hospitals of Wuhan; something was going on. China claims the first case of "novel corona virus" was on November 15, 2019. Really? Then what were all those cars at hospitals doing?

DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Also, The Charter puts limits on what the Government can do. It's literally the first paragraph. It says nothing about what Social Media can do.

Bill C-10 gives government the right to dictate to Social Media what can be posted on their platform. It's a violation of the "Freedom of Expression" clause of the Charter.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:
And all of it has been found in accordance with The Charter. Temporary Public safety measures outweigh the right to publicly assemble.

You mean the people who committed the offences declared that they are not guilty of an offence. Do you understand how that works? Furthermore, your argument "blah outweigh blah" is simply a way of saying the Charter is inconvenient. Read my earlier paragraph about speeding.


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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 7:42 pm
 


I wish C-10 had been put into effect before COVID came along. If it had I bet that the situation in Alberta would be a fraction of how disastrous it is right now, something that spiraled completely out of control thanks to the liars and outright lunatics on social media. If what these people have done to the rest of us with their outright malice doesn't count as yelling out fire in a crowded theatre then I don't know what else could be just as bad.

Free speech used solely to cause damage isn't free speech at all. It's nothing but verbal criminality. :evil:


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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 10:35 pm
 


Winnipegger Winnipegger:
No. You have it backwards. A lot of Canadians are horrified that government response has been to introduce autocratic rule of a tin-pot dictatorship. Our freedoms are being eroded. Principles we fought wars to protect are being destroyed.

Don't use COVID as an excuse to destroy Canada. Politicians are now blatantly violating the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. That's embedded in the Federal Constitution specifically to ensure they don't have the authority to do that. Their punish citizens with the excuse "that's the law", but when they blatantly violate law themselves they shrug it off. This can't be allowed to continue!


How much of my original post did you even read? The problems I've been talking about have been building for decades long before anyone knew what a coronavirus was. The efforts towards the common good I talked about have been done by citizens acting on their own as much as anything any government has done.

And the Charter of Rights and Freedoms has some very interesting sections in it, such as the very first one:

$1:

Rights and freedoms in Canada

1 The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.



Considering that we're in the middle of a pandemic that's killed thousands of people, there's arguably a strong case to be made that the restrictions governments are putting in place can be "demonstrably justified" as a means to keep more people from getting sick and dying. The courts would have to decide, of course, but we haven't had a crisis like this in literally a hundred years.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'd be very shocked if the courts didn't rule in favour of the government restrictions because of the Charter section I just quoted. Even if they did, governments could still use the notwithstanding clause to keep them in place.

All of this is constitutional and was agreed to by almost all of the provinces back in 1982, including Alberta's own Peter Lougheed.


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 1:09 am
 


JaredMilne,
That sentence does not mean what you claim it to mean. If any court were to agree with you, that would mean the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is meaningless. Your argument demonstrates my point: that Canada is under attack. This is a concerted attempt to destroy our country.


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 6:11 am
 


Winnipegger Winnipegger:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Winnipegger Winnipegger:
Early on medical researchers found hydroxychloroquine works.


No. There has never been a medical study that showed hydroxychloroquine made any positive difference to anyone suffering from COVID-19, and in fact the side effects from it can be harmful. You can look up the studies I quoted the in the COVID-19 thread.

Then try reading again. I cited the studies that show it *DOES* work.


You did no such thing. You posted a rumour, with no attribution.

Winnipegger Winnipegger:
Early on medical researchers found hydroxychloroquine works. Chinese doctors studied hospital records and found those patients who were given this for other reasons recovered quickly.


This is not a reference to any sort of study. Post a link to the study you mean located in reputable journal that peer reviews it's papers.

Winnipegger Winnipegger:
You're falling for American political propaganda. Allowing American politics to affect Canadian health policy is disgusting.


Very little I read is from the CDC, but what I do read from the CDC is not 'propaganda'.

Winnipegger Winnipegger:
By the way, Joe Biden has already ruled that hydroxychloroquine can be used in American hospitals. When Donald Trump says it, that must mean it doesn't work. When Joe Biden says it, then it must. Getting the point?


There you go again, spreading rumours. Biden has not said any such thing, that I can find. Trump's recommendation of HQ was based on rumour too.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcev ... -evidence/


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 6:27 am
 


Winnipegger Winnipegger:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
$1:
In the 60-page decision, Hinkson found that while provincial health officer Dr. Bonnie Henry’s ban on in-person worship did constitute an infringement on religious groups’ charter rights to freedom of religion...

Any "but" is irrelevant. It is an infringement. Period. Full stop. Any "but" simply illustrates my point, that Canadian values are being destroyed.

Government is arresting people and/or issuing draconian fines. Their excuse is "It's the law". The Canadian Federal Constitution is the supreme law of Canada, the Charter was embedded in the Constitution specifically to ensure it can't be ignored. Violating the Constitution just because it's inconvenient? They're violating the law. Period.

What if someone drives on a road faster than the posted speed limit. Their excuse is they were late for a meeting. The speed limit was inconvenient so they don't have to obey it? Sound ridiculous? That's exactly the argument the government is now using for violating the Charter.


If that guy gets arrested for excessive speeding, it is because he is endangering people around him. The same goes for restaurateurs or pastors who are breaking the health orders that reduce their seating capacity. They are endangering the public by giving a venue for a virulent and fatal virus to spread.

The courts have ruled that public health orders take precedence over charter rights. They often rule that one charter right is more important than another. For example, a person's right to safety and security takes precedence over another persons' right to speak freely and promote hate against the first. How the courts interpret the Charter is the law. Period.

Public health orders are not issued all willy-nilly, they are for a specific reason and for a limited time.

Winnipegger Winnipegger:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Winnipegger Winnipegger:
- Anyone who posts a video on YouTube that challenges China's official story about how COVID started, has the video taken down. And they can have their channel cancelled. Liberal Minister claims bill C-10 will not do that, but it's already happening on YouTube. Bill C-10 will spread this crap to all social media. Censorship is violation of Freedom of Expression.

Anyone posting a video that MMR vaccines cause autism will also have it taken down, and for the same reason. Because it's conspiracy bullshit.


You haven't done your research. The Winnipeg virus lab sampled a patient in hospital in India who had novel corona virus. Then a researcher who worked at the Winnipeg lab was caught carrying information on her laptop to the virus lab in Wuhan China. She was expelled from Canada in July. In August the intelligence service of Taiwan found an unusual number of cars parked in parking lots of hospitals of Wuhan; something was going on. China claims the first case of "novel corona virus" was on November 15, 2019. Really? Then what were all those cars at hospitals doing?


Conspiracy theory. Coincidence is not causality.

https://nationalpost.com/news/covid-19- ... laboratory

The RNA of the virus proves it did not come from a man made source.

Winnipegger Winnipegger:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Also, The Charter puts limits on what the Government can do. It's literally the first paragraph. It says nothing about what Social Media can do.

Bill C-10 gives government the right to dictate to Social Media what can be posted on their platform. It's a violation of the "Freedom of Expression" clause of the Charter.


Red Herring. That isn't what we are discussing. Nor is it law right now.

Winnipegger Winnipegger:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
And all of it has been found in accordance with The Charter. Temporary Public safety measures outweigh the right to publicly assemble.

You mean the people who committed the offences declared that they are not guilty of an offence. Do you understand how that works? Furthermore, your argument "blah outweigh blah" is simply a way of saying the Charter is inconvenient. Read my earlier paragraph about speeding.


Yes, read your earlier paragraph about speeding, and tell us how endangering people by speeding and endangering them by spreading a virus isn't something that officials should restrict.


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 8:40 am
 


Ok, you call news reports from mainstream media "rumours". Fine, here's a report, website is the NCBI, a US government agency. Interesting, although media news reports said 1,000 patients, this report says 3,737 patients, of which 3,119 were given hydroxychloroquine (HCQ). Does that make you feel better?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7315163/

Abstract Abstract:
Background

In our institute in Marseille, France, we initiated early and massive screening for coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). Hospitalization and early treatment with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin (HCQ-AZ) was proposed for the positive cases.

Methods

We retrospectively report the clinical management of 3,737 screened patients, including 3,119 (83.5%) treated with HCQ-AZ (200 mg of oral HCQ, three times daily for ten days and 500 mg of oral AZ on day 1 followed by 250 mg daily for the next four days, respectively) for at least three days and 618 (16.5%) patients treated with other regimen (“others”). Outcomes were death, transfer to the intensive care unit (ICU), ≥10 days of hospitalization and viral shedding.

Results

The patients’ mean age was 45 (sd 17) years, 45% were male, and the case fatality rate was 0.9%. We performed 2,065 low-dose computed tomography (CT) scans highlighting lung lesions in 592 of the 991 (59.7%) patients with minimal clinical symptoms (NEWS score = 0). A discrepancy between spontaneous dyspnoea, hypoxemia and lung lesions was observed. Clinical factors (age, comorbidities, NEWS-2 score), biological factors (lymphocytopenia; eosinopenia; decrease in blood zinc; and increase in D-dimers, lactate dehydrogenase, creatinine phosphokinase, troponin and C-reactive protein) and moderate and severe lesions detected in low-dose CT scans were associated with poor clinical outcome. Treatment with HCQ-AZ was associated with a decreased risk of transfer to ICU or death (Hazard ratio (HR) 0.18 0.11–0.27), decreased risk of hospitalization ≥10 days (odds ratios 95% CI 0.38 0.27–0.54) and shorter duration of viral shedding (time to negative PCR: HR 1.29 1.17–1.42). QTc prolongation (>60 ms) was observed in 25 patients (0.67%) leading to the cessation of treatment in 12 cases including 3 cases with QTc> 500 ms. No cases of torsade de pointe or sudden death were observed.

Conclusion

Although this is a retrospective analysis, results suggest that early diagnosis, early isolation and early treatment of COVID-19 patients, with at least 3 days of HCQ-AZ lead to a significantly better clinical outcome and a faster viral load reduction than other treatments.


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 9:06 am
 


Winnipegger Winnipegger:
Ok, you call news reports from mainstream media "rumours". Fine, here's a report, website is the NCBI, a US government agency. Interesting, although media news reports said 1,000 patients, this report says 3,737 patients, of which 3,119 were given hydroxychloroquine (HCQ). Does that make you feel better?


My feelings are irrelevant.


$1:
Top of Page
Hydroxychloroquine

Evidence is insufficient to support treatment of COVID-19 with hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) and guidance from NIH recommends against its use. Here we present four papers evaluating HCQ for treatment of COVID-19, as pre-exposure prophylaxis, and on fetal outcomes when used during pregnancy.

PEER-REVIEWED

A. Effect of Hydroxychloroquine in Hospitalized Patients with COVID-19external icon. The RECOVERY Collaborative Group. NEJM (October 8, 2020).

Key findings:

Death within 28 days occurred in 421 patients (27.0%) in the hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) group and in 790 patients (25.0%) in the usual-care group, rate ratio 1.09, p = 0.15 (95% CI 0.97-1.23) (Figure).
Among patients not undergoing mechanical ventilation at enrollment, those in the HCQ group had a higher frequency of invasive mechanical ventilation or death (30.7% vs 26.9%); risk ratio 1.14 (95% CI 1.03-1.27).
An interim analysis determined lack of efficacy of HCQ, and enrollment closed early.

Methods: The RECOVERY trial is a randomized, controlled, open-label platform trial comparing a range of possible treatments with usual care in patients hospitalized with COVID-19 at 176 hospitals in the UK. In this phase of the study, 1,561 COVID-19 patients were randomly assigned to receive HCQ and 3,155 received usual care. The primary outcome was 28-day mortality.



https://www.cdc.gov/library/covid19/100 ... pdate.html


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 9:48 am
 


rickc rickc:
herbie herbie:
Used to collect "suspicious persons" reports during the October Crisis. Driving gf from New West to a movie in downtown Vancouver & back on Kingsway got pulled over four times in one night. You know how 2 longhairs and their gf's in a 57 Chevy in 1970 were so out of place it was suspicious....
And that ended, just like the fucking minor inconvenience of masks and gatherings will soon.

You say that it ended, maybe they just moved on to a new target. I wonder what the odds of four black men in a car at night (or four first nation males in a car at night) making it down that highway today without being stopped are.

There was no "target" of harassment, it was an ACTUAL suspension of everyone's Civil Rights. Look it up.
There was no "conspiracy" to carry on about it was a pretty clear and outright act.
I'm amazed that everyone who believes the gov't couldn't run a popsicle stand also believes the gov't is capable of covering up massive conspiracies all the time.


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:40 am
 


Winnipegger Winnipegger:
No. You have it backwards. A lot of Canadians are horrified that government response has been to introduce autocratic rule of a tin-pot dictatorship. Our freedoms are being eroded. Principles we fought wars to protect are being destroyed.

Voters keep reminding me that income tax was a temporary tax for World War 1 only. Both federal personal and federal corporate income tax were created by the Temporary War Income Tax Act of 1917. I point out the acronym spells TWIT. There was no provincial income tax at that time. No provincial sales tax. No federal nor provincial tax on gasoline. There was federal income tax on manufactured goods, which was replaced by GST. There was municipal and school tax. But number of taxes and total tax load for average working Canadians has steadily increased. It's a major problem.

Government is interfering in many things they shouldn't.

Response to COVID-19 has been all wrong. For example, last summer Manitoba was effectively COVID free. The last two weeks of June saw only one single case, a truck driver who entered the province with the disease. The first two weeks of July, a second truck driver entered the province with the disease and infected 2 people in his/her house. Both drivers were professional, did not spread the disease to the public. For a few hours, after the second drive recovered, Manitoba had exactly zero cases. That's completely COVID free. But what did the province do? They opened up travel to western provinces without self-isolating, despite the fact Alberta and BC had well over 300 cases each. (386?) Both provinces had a problem with Americans. The Feds claimed they had closed the border, but all an American had to do was say he was driving through to Alaska. No verification. This wasn't restricted to semi-trucks (tractor-trailer) with a bill of lading with a destination address in Alaska. No, anyone could enter. But the worst was Manitoba allowed movie production crew to enter directly from the US. They didn't have to quarantine or even self-isolate; the producer only had to sign a letter claiming that all cast & crew had self-isolated wherever they came from before entering Manitoba. No verification, and no regard for exposure on aircraft or American airports at origin or connecting flights. California at the time had over 30,000 cases. Result: Manitoba had a surge!

Don't use COVID as an excuse to destroy Canada. Politicians are now blatantly violating the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. That's embedded in the Federal Constitution specifically to ensure they don't have the authority to do that. Their punish citizens with the excuse "that's the law", but when they blatantly violate law themselves they shrug it off. This can't be allowed to continue!


:roll:

I'm disappointed in you Winnipegger for posting the tripe you have here.


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 12:09 pm
 


bootlegga bootlegga:
:roll:

I'm disappointed in you Winnipegger for posting the tripe you have here.

I'm disappointed in you. You should be very concerned about government overreach.


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 12:22 pm
 


Winnipegger Winnipegger:
bootlegga bootlegga:
:roll:

I'm disappointed in you Winnipegger for posting the tripe you have here.

I'm disappointed in you. You should be very concerned about government overreach.


We are far more concerned about Government Underreach that has led to this 3rd wave killing and maiming people, when everyone saw it coming back at Christmas. A complete lack of enforcement is killing small business, and people, in Canada.

That, and the amount of disinformation you've posted lately leads us to be really concerned about your headspace.


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 12:49 pm
 


This does have to be dealt with. A former director of Emergency Services in Alberta posted a video last March (2020) saying they had procedures and protocols for pandemic. He saw 4 pandemics in his lifetime before COVID. He would NEVER do what they're doing. Long term care homes should have been locked down last March. That means staff cannot leave the building. If staff work at more than one facility, then tell them they can't any more. At least not during the pandemic. That's a great way of spreading disease from one facility to another. And if they're concerned they can't see family then do something like 30 days on / 30 days off. I would do it differently: my father was a construction worker before he met my mother. He would work remote work sites 6 weeks on / 2 weeks off. They would work long hours 7 days per week for 6 weeks, then the employer would pay for an airplane ticket to fly them back home for 2 weeks. If the work site was too far to drive. Do that. And as the retired Alberta director said, if that means you have to pay staff more, just do it.

He said you don't lock-down healthy people.

I have criticized the Manitoba government. I think I already said this, but we had achieved zero cases. ZERO!!! Then they opened the borders. That was stupid! The government asked for public input, so I did write my recommendation, and their government website gave a list of ministers my response was sent to. So they knew, they have no excuse. I said lock down the border hard! Do not open the border, instead open the economy inside the province. At that time all 3 territories also had zero cases. I said create a virus free zone, with very strict border controls. As neighbouring areas become virus free, we expand the virus free zone. Free movement inside the virus free zone, but no crossing in or out.

Manitoba opened the province to movie productions. Cast and crew from the US did not have to quarantine, did not even have to self-isolate. The producer need only sign a form stating all cast & crew had self-isolated wherever they came from. Do you realize how expensive it is for all cast & crew of a movie to sit around doing nothing for 14 days? They'll never do that! Even if they did, they're exposed at the airport they depart, on the aircraft, there's no direct flights from California to Winnipeg so that requires a lay-over in Chicago O'Hare, then another flight. They could easily catch the disease along the way. But again, the producer will sign the form but no one will self-isolate. They'll "stay home" but will go out for a coffee, will go out to shop for groceries, will do various things of daily life. That means they didn't self-isolate. At all. California had more than 30,000 active cases at that time.

Government also allowed travel to all western provinces, and return without self-isolating. Hutterites held a convention in Alberta. They came back with the disease, created a major wave through south-western Manitoba.

That was stupid! I could post conspiracy theories like they want the disease, but frankly I believe the reason is much simpler. They're stupid. They pander to rich business owners. Movie producers, tourism companies, and airlines wanted their business to re-open. Who cares how many people die. The government just pandered to rich donors who contributed significant money to their election campaign.

We need to stop this disease now! NOW!!! What government is doing will not accomplish that.

Far too many civil liberties have been restricted. Give government authority to do this for more than a year, they won't want to give up that authority. If you claim they can only have this authority under emergency conditions, they'll create a perpetual emergency. I could cite examples from the United States. Their response to 9/11 was extreme and caused more damage than 9/11 itself. We have the serious danger this is happening right here right now. I'm highly disappointed by your headspace.

Studies by the CIA showed that if you tell a lie consistently, and tell people this is a danger that threatens their life, and do so for 8 months or more, then they get stuck. You could show the public all sorts of logical arguments or show them all sorts of evidence, but they will never believe it. They will believe the initial lie. So I'm seriously concerned about YOUR headspace.

Here's a test: COVID-19 started in they city of Wuhan China. Wuhan is the location of China's only level 4 Microbiology Laboratory (virus lab). Do you still believe the virus came from nature?


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 1:44 pm
 


Winnipegger Winnipegger:
bootlegga bootlegga:
:roll:

I'm disappointed in you Winnipegger for posting the tripe you have here.


I'm disappointed in you. You should be very concerned about government overreach.


I am concerned about it, but dead people have NO rights.

This nonsense makes me feel like if we went to war with China or Russia, people would be shouting, "Mah freedumbs" instead of accepting 'restrictions' like food and energy rationing, factory retooling, job re-distribution and every else needed for the war effort.

Yes income tax was supposed to be a temporary measure, but that doesn't mean that people will accept the current limitations on travel, worship, commerce, etc. after the pandemic ends, anymore than they would have accepted wartime restrictions after WW2 ended.

ANY politician who advocates for keeping these restrictions after the pandemic ends will be run out of town (and rightly so), and anyone who thinks otherwise needs a tinfoil hat and a prescription for Xanax or some other mood altering drug so they can stop acting like Helen Lovejoy.



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