[C.M. Burns]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Yeee-haw. I've been waiting for this. I've going to ditch the wife. Well maybe not today, since it's our anniversary, but tomorrow for sure.

[Tricks]

I think it depends on the situation of the divorce. Is the father allowed to see the kids? No? Fuck paying.

[Tricks]

lily lily:

Tricks Tricks:

I think it depends on the situation of the divorce. Is the father allowed to see the kids? No? Fuck paying.

They're 2 separate issues. If you don't get to see the kids, you can't with-hold support, and vice versa.

Besides... if one parent isn't "allowed" to see the kids, there's usually a reason.

Again, that's part of the situation. Blanketing something like this is stupid. It has to be dealt with on a case by case basis

[Tricks]

lily lily:

Blanketing.....

Right.

The fact is... the courts look for the best interests of the child(ren). That means both parents should have reasonable access, and both parents should take part in the finacial responsibilities. Just becasue one might shirk doesn't mean the other gets to too.

That's not the best for the kids.

Why should a father (who hasn't done anything wrong for arguments sake) be forced to pay child support, but can't see them.

Another thing, why is it almost always the father paying the support? Seems there is sexism inherent in the system.

[Tricks]

lily lily:

The non-custodial parent pays support. If you've noticed, more often than not, I've used the term "parent" rather than "mother" and "father".

Why is the custodial parent almost always the mother?

$1:

The non-custodial parent must pay support regardless of visitation agreements and realities. This is in the best interests of the child. Same in reverse... the custodial parent must allow visitation, regardless of payments. Again.... best interests of the child.

I disagree. If the custodial parent won't let the support parent see the kid, then forget them.

$1:

I think you'd be surprised about the realities, Tricks. A lot of men "move on" after divorce, and find less and less time to spend with their kids. Too many refuse to pay, which is why there are programs like the Family Maintenance Enforcement Program.

True. Maybe it's because they aren't allowed to see as much of their kids as they would like.

$1:

This isn't sexist. My main concern is for the kids. I hate seeing kids do without because one parent can't be bothered to make time for them... and don't want to give their ex any more than they have to.

Indeed, it's not something I would wish to see either. But forcing someone to pay for something (or in this case someone) which they will never see or have any contact with is highway robbery.

[Tricks]

lily lily:

Probably choice. More and more though, you see joint custody, where each parent has the child for a week at a time or whatever. If both parents live close, I think it's the ideal situation.

Indeed. That's what my cousin's have.

$1:

It doesn't matter what you think. That's the reality.

I know. People should pay more attention to what I think. It's generally right.

$1:

But for argument's sake, whose interests are you looking out for here, Tricks?

Pretty much everyone involved. If the supporting parent doesn't have to pay if they don't see their kids, do you think the custodial parent will with hold that right? Doubt it. Either everyone gets screwed, or no one gets screwed. Seems fair, no?

$1:

I'm sure you'd like to think so.

And I'm sure you'd like to not think so.

$1:

There are avenues to take if you want visitation increased or enforced. But most times, it's choice, not circumstances, that keep one parent away from their kids.

Again, which is why it should be case by case. If a one parent won't let the other see the kids, and they still have to pay, it's a kick the nether region.

$1:

It's funny, Tricks. You like to think I'm a raving feminist, but clearly if anyone is sexist here, it's you.

You are a raving feminist. You've shown that clearly before. If I am being sexist, it's not my intention.

[ziggy]

Tricks Tricks:

lily lily:

Blanketing.....

Right.

The fact is... the courts look for the best interests of the child(ren). That means both parents should have reasonable access, and both parents should take part in the finacial responsibilities. Just becasue one might shirk doesn't mean the other gets to too.

That's not the best for the kids.

Why should a father (who hasn't done anything wrong for arguments sake) be forced to pay child support, but can't see them.

Another thing, why is it almost always the father paying the support? Seems there is sexism inherent in the system.

Ask yourself that before you have sex next time.You bring kids into this world then their your responsibility and if you want to play the I dont see them then I withold support game then you should have had a vasectomy.

The kids allways get used in this type of who wins bullshit.Their not pawns to be used to see who was right,mom or dad.
Sadly though this is the case in most divorce's.
And By your comments I also see that this kind of thinking hasnt changed in the last 25 years.
I'll withold payments,that will show her!

I know a whack of guys who look back at their divorces from 20 to 30 years ago and just shake their heads at how stupid,petty and destructive their behaviour was for their kids at the time.Most are now older and hopefully wiser and wish they could go back in time to redo the damage they did to their kids.

Kids arent a bargaining chip to be used in a bad marriage or in a settlement dispute.I have to ask myself where you picked up the notion that they are because you seem to be condoning it.

I hope when you get married you remember that it's supposed to be for life,take the "till death do us part" seriously before slipping that ring on her finger in church in front of all your family and hers.Because in 7 to 10 years your relationship will be tested and divorce seems to be the norm these days so expect to lose everything and have to start all over from scratch,maybe a couple of times.
Unless your smart enough to sit back and settle things amicably.

[Blue_Nose]

lily lily:

You are looking out for the men, regardless of the circumstances. You're assuming that men are screwed by this whole process, regardless of any facts that say otherwise.

Tricks seems to be treating the responsibility of having a child like it's buying a boat - he expects to get a certain experience from it, and if he doesn't get his money's worth, he's getting "screwed".

I'd say anyone that's left raising a child on their own, assisted financially or not, is the one getting "screwed".

[ShepherdsDog]

If you're dipping your nib, you'd better be able to afford to write that cheque.

[acidcomplex]

ziggy ziggy:

Ask yourself that before you have sex next time.You bring kids into this world then their your responsibility and if you want to play the I dont see them then I withold support game then you should have had a vasectomy.

I would have to disagree, He did not bring a child into this world "they" did.I think it is only fair to get to see the child if your paying out the ass for them.

ziggy ziggy:

The kids allways get used in this type of who wins bullshit.Their not pawns to be used to see who was right,mom or dad.
Sadly though this is the case in most divorce's.
And By your comments I also see that this kind of thinking hasnt changed in the last 25 years.
I'll withold payments,that will show her!

Yeah cause its always the men that do this, women would never do such things eh

ziggy ziggy:

Kids arent a bargaining chip to be used in a bad marriage or in a settlement dispute.I have to ask myself where you picked up the notion that they are because you seem to be condoning it.

Years of condition by the system and having to resort to it as the ladies just arent happy with what they get, they feel entiled to the world becuase there so "hard done by", not once thinking what its like for the man to say lose his only son or lose his little girl. Wheres the compensation for that?.

ziggy ziggy:

I hope when you get married you remember that it's supposed to be for life,take the "till death do us part" seriously before slipping that ring on her finger in church in front of all your family and hers.

Also remember this goes both ways. You have just said to "expect to lose everything and have to start all over from scratch" well then why has the woman not done this as well. This is the exact reason they cry support. Cause someone didnt plan ahead and now they have to start all over.

[acidcomplex]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

If you're dipping your nib, you'd better be able to afford to write that cheque.

Ha if we all did that we would never have sex

[novachick]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

If you're dipping your nib, you'd better be able to afford to write that cheque.

Lets not forget if a woman is allowing herself to be dipped, she should be as well.

[acidcomplex]

novachick novachick:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

If you're dipping your nib, you'd better be able to afford to write that cheque.

Lets not forget if a woman is allowing herself to be dipped, she should be as well.

Lol i like the way you think

[novachick]

acidcomplex acidcomplex:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

If you're dipping your nib, you'd better be able to afford to write that cheque.

Ha if we all did that we would never have sex

I'm not sure if your referring to married sex or not. Well actually that doesn't even matter. Lets just say if your having sex with someone you don't trust, geeeze I hope your using a condom. Pregnancy is only one issue

[novachick]

acidcomplex acidcomplex:

novachick novachick:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

If you're dipping your nib, you'd better be able to afford to write that cheque.

Lets not forget if a woman is allowing herself to be dipped, she should be as well.

Lol i like the way you think

Absolutely lets get very real here. Sure sex is obviously a two way street, but in reality the "CHOICE" ( yes there are some true accidents, but they are very low) to get pregnant remains solely at the womans discretion.

Now before someone starts screaming about a guys responsibilty. Ladies if you don't know weather or not he's using a condom if you are unprotected, then you really shouldn't be having sex . At the end of the day pregnancy remains and will always remain a womans choice ( barring "true" accidents )