[andyt]

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63R5HP20100430

Senate Democratic leaders unveiled on Thursday an outline for overhauling the country's "broken" immigration system as protests mounted against Arizona's crackdown on illegal immigrants.

$1:

The Democrats also called for creation of a high-tech identification card for immigrant workers, a process to admit temporary workers, "tough sanctions" against U.S. employers who hire illegal immigrants, and, eventually, a path toward U.S. citizenship for people in the country unlawfully.

The Democratic proposal would "require those here illegally to register with the government, pay taxes, learn English, pass criminal background checks and go to the back of the line to earn legal status," Reid said.

President Barack Obama welcomed the Senate Democratic plan and said, "What has become increasingly clear is that we can no longer wait to fix our broken immigration system."

So much for Obama/Dems not wanting to touch immigration. The sticking point will be the amnesty, but as people have pointed out, trying to deport 12 million people would be impossible anyway.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

angler57 angler57:

Illegal Alien is Illegal.
Drug smugglers are law breakers.
Kidnappers are law breakers.
Arizona is a front door for illeals.
If an illegal rents a nice house in a good neighborhood and a few days later 22 cars are parked in the front yard and people are sleeping and working in shifts.
Lets hope they live next door to you.
And when a family member from another country cannot enter the country because an illegal crowds them out, thats your problem.
Profiling.
Lets search a little ole black lady in a wheel chair.
And what about checking out all those Canadians sneaking in across our northern border?
All this is just something to consider before forming an opinion.

Hmmm I remember in Minneapolis, there was a Mexican neighbourhood that USED to be a black ghetto. The Mexicans cleaned up the neighbourhood, renovated homes, landscaped their properties AND planted trees throughout. They made one of the worst neighbourhoods in the city into an area one could safely walk.
I'd have been quite happy if they were my neighbours.

[EyeBrock]

I had a chat with a yank on a flight to Vegas last year. He complained about illegal Mexicans in Nevada etc. I reminded him that Mexicans actually want to be Americans.

There are plenty of immigrants to Canada and the US that don't want to be Canadians or Americans, but we still let them in and pander to their demands.

Personally I'd much rather we let Mexicans in than some group from a country or culture that detests our way of life and is just here for the standard of living.

Plastic Canadians. Plastic Yanks.

[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I had a chat with a yank on a flight to Vegas last year. He complained about illegal Mexicans in Nevada etc. I reminded him that Mexicans actually want to be Americans.

There are plenty of immigrants to Canada and the US that don't want to be Canadians or Americans, but we still let them in and pander to their demands.

Personally I'd much rather we let Mexicans in than some group from a country or culture that detests our way of life and is just here for the standard of living.

Plastic Canadians. Plastic Yanks.

You mean they want to be Americans with their Cinqo de Mayo celebrations flying the Mexican flag, and the claims of many that the southern US was stolen from Mexico and should be returned? Hispanics are pushing for Spanish to be made an official language. They Mexicans want what every immigrant wants - a better material life. If they could turn the US into a Hispanic state, so much the better. Most immigrants never seem to consider that there's a reason they left the old country and came to the new - ie it's not just luck why the new country is better.

[EyeBrock]

Any different than St Jean Baptiste celebrations? Surely both the US and Canada are big enough for different ethnic groups to celebrate their own heritage?

As long as they want to become Canadians/Americans I'm all for it.

As an immigrant myself I like my ties to the old country. I just don't wanna move back there.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

andyt andyt:

You mean they want to be Americans with their Cinqo de Mayo celebrations flying the Mexican flag,

Oh my, I better lower my Scottish and Welsh flags and quit celebrating St. Daffyd's Day lest I be accused of not being Canadian enough

[Bruce_the_vii]

andyt andyt:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63R5HP20100430

Senate Democratic leaders unveiled on Thursday an outline for overhauling the country's "broken" immigration system as protests mounted against Arizona's crackdown on illegal immigrants.

$1:

The Democrats also called for creation of a high-tech identification card for immigrant workers, a process to admit temporary workers, "tough sanctions" against U.S. employers who hire illegal immigrants, and, eventually, a path toward U.S. citizenship for people in the country unlawfully.

The Democratic proposal would "require those here illegally to register with the government, pay taxes, learn English, pass criminal background checks and go to the back of the line to earn legal status," Reid said.

President Barack Obama welcomed the Senate Democratic plan and said, "What has become increasingly clear is that we can no longer wait to fix our broken immigration system."

So much for Obama/Dems not wanting to touch immigration. The sticking point will be the amnesty, but as people have pointed out, trying to deport 12 million people would be impossible anyway.

It’s true you can’t deport 12 million people but the alternative is attrition. Working from memory something like half the illegal immigrants have simply over stayed there visa and are actually only here temporarily. In addition you can force them back by policing employers. There’s something like 30 million Americans that need a job, some of them drop outs from the labour market. Illegals are considered poor and vulnerable and forcing them back tough medicine but the thing of it is lots of people would heist you entire job for a cause – just give to an illegal. That’s the morality out there. Certainly the men and women in Congress had no problem heisting 12 million jobs for a phantom vote.


Some 12 million workers over the period of a working life, or until unemployment clears up – that’s a lot of money. It makes the Army Corp of Engineers look small scale.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Really, when it gets down to brass tacks, why should Canadians go through hoops to enter the US while Mexicans are supposed to be allowed to roam the US at will?

Cuz Canadians are generally better educated than Mexicans and are therefore a "potential" threat to Americans when it comes to the better paying jobs. But since many Americans, and Canadians for that matter, feel it's beneath themselves to do the shit jobs, no one is going to try really hard to go after the illegals that do 'em, just to kick 'em out of the country.

[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Any different than St Jean Baptiste celebrations? Surely both the US and Canada are big enough for different ethnic groups to celebrate their own heritage?

As long as they want to become Canadians/Americans I'm all for it.

As an immigrant myself I like my ties to the old country. I just don't wanna move back there.

Cough cough - those St Jean Baptisters want to separate from Canada, many of them. The Hispanics in the US are no different than other immigrants, some want to adapt, many want to retain their ways, never learn English, etc. It's you that said they were different from other immigrants.

[angler57]

Who is an IMMIGRATE?
What is IMMIGRATION.
Are they those people from all over the world that do all of the RIGHT things to enter another country?

Who are the ILLEGAL ALIENS?
Are they the one that sneak across national borders in the dark of night?

That kill border guards as happened just yesterday?
That enter thru say, Arizone and scatter all over the USA?

If you come to my country legally. I'll invite you over for a cup of coffee and you will be my friend.

If you sneak into my country and your first act entering here is to break the law.
You are not my friend.
ILLEGAL entry is a breach of the law. Please pick-up your sorry butt and go home.
Or if you folks in Canada want them we'll send them up to Ya'lll.

[BeaverFever]

I think there are (at least currently) enough protections at the federal and state level that this law won't have a big impact and we won't see Latinos stopped and searched on the street. The Hispanic vote is still a big vote and I don't see any mass persecution, its not like they're a small, fragmented or disorganized minority like muslims or some other groups.

My understanding is that the AZ lawmakers assume that their cops, in pursuit of their normal lawful duties, often encounter suspected illegal immigrants but due to lack of resources or personal initiative, don't follow through with an investigation. For example, an officer responds to a noise complaint at a house where numerous young males appear to be living, don't speak english, don't have ID and give vague and somewhat inconsistent stories about where the work, who actually lives there, etc. The cop may suspect some of them may be illegals, but since he's just there on a noise complaint and they turned the music down, he doesn't pursue it. This law will supposedly compel the officers to follow through.

A second motivator is the belief among Americans that illegal immigrants perceive all the barriers to entering the US as being along the border and that they are 'home free' if they can just make it across that line. The lawmakers want more barriers behind the border to change that perception.

I'm sure there will be all kinds of court cases to determine the reasonable limits, some of which will be won, some of which will be lost. That being said, America's system of populist policies and elected judges does cause some concern for a 'tyranny of the majority' sitation where due process and rights could get trampled, but I think the victims of that will mostly be the illegal and 'semi-legal' (improper paperwork, etc) and not citizens or people who are solidly in the country for legal purposes.

I don't think this law will be effective, its like a dam that's cracked and leaking water and everybody is arguing over what size bucket to catch the water with, forgetting about the problem with dam itself. Illegal immigrants are increasingly from rural areas that are no longer self-sufficient in the era of globaliztion. If jobs, investment and goods are now free to shift from country to country, people are going to follow them. The factory jobs outsourced to Mexico are not sufficient to provide for the farmers and rural inhabitants displaced by rising domestic food prices and massive global corporate farms. Domestic farmers are forced to switch from growing food staples to industrial use crops like genetically modified soy, etc. Liberalization of trade has put self-suffient farm communities out of commission and forced people to buy imported food on the open market; food from the US, Canadian and European governments that is heavily subsidized.

Meanwhile Americans are still willing to hire, and buy products made from, cheap immigrant labour so that they can consume as much as possible in our Wal-Mart culture of over-indulgence and self-entitlement. People just don't want to accept that they can't have it both ways.

[andyt]

Bruce_the_vii Bruce_the_vii:

andyt andyt:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63R5HP20100430

Senate Democratic leaders unveiled on Thursday an outline for overhauling the country's "broken" immigration system as protests mounted against Arizona's crackdown on illegal immigrants.

$1:

The Democrats also called for creation of a high-tech identification card for immigrant workers, a process to admit temporary workers, "tough sanctions" against U.S. employers who hire illegal immigrants, and, eventually, a path toward U.S. citizenship for people in the country unlawfully.

The Democratic proposal would "require those here illegally to register with the government, pay taxes, learn English, pass criminal background checks and go to the back of the line to earn legal status," Reid said.

President Barack Obama welcomed the Senate Democratic plan and said, "What has become increasingly clear is that we can no longer wait to fix our broken immigration system."

So much for Obama/Dems not wanting to touch immigration. The sticking point will be the amnesty, but as people have pointed out, trying to deport 12 million people would be impossible anyway.

It’s true you can’t deport 12 million people but the alternative is attrition. Working from memory something like half the illegal immigrants have simply over stayed there visa and are actually only here temporarily. In addition you can force them back by policing employers. There’s something like 30 million Americans that need a job, some of them drop outs from the labour market. Illegals are considered poor and vulnerable and forcing them back tough medicine but the thing of it is lots of people would heist you entire job for a cause – just give to an illegal. That’s the morality out there. Certainly the men and women in Congress had no problem heisting 12 million jobs for a phantom vote.


Some 12 million workers over the period of a working life, or until unemployment clears up – that’s a lot of money. It makes the Army Corp of Engineers look small scale.

Good points. I've said repeatedly in this topic that the way to deal with this is to go after the employers. That way illegals won't be tempted to go to the US, and many illegals already there will leave voluntarily.

[tritium]

angler57 angler57:

Who is an IMMIGRATE?
What is IMMIGRATION.
Are they those people from all over the world that do all of the RIGHT things to enter another country?

Who are the ILLEGAL ALIENS?
Are they the one that sneak across national borders in the dark of night?

That kill border guards as happened just yesterday?
That enter thru say, Arizone and scatter all over the USA?

If you come to my country legally. I'll invite you over for a cup of coffee and you will be my friend.

If you sneak into my country and your first act entering here is to break the law.
You are not my friend.
ILLEGAL entry is a breach of the law. Please pick-up your sorry butt and go home.
Or if you folks in Canada want them we'll send them up to Ya'lll.

Dude, WTF?

Those people that are crossing the border at night may be illegal, but they are not the ones shooting at police.

Just because you are brown and look Mexican does not make you illegal.

The Coyotes who bring the illegals into the United States are the ones carrying the guns and shooting at law enforement.

Those Coyotes and Drug Runners are generally U.S. Citizens.

The problem is, they are using "illegal immigrants" as human shields for their drug smuggling operations.

These illegal immigrants can't afford AK-47's, or guns, that is why they come to the United States to find a better life and job.

It's the racist backward dirt farmers that group all the brown people into one pot as illegal.

[Gunnair]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

andyt andyt:

You mean they want to be Americans with their Cinqo de Mayo celebrations flying the Mexican flag,

Oh my, I better lower my Scottish and Welsh flags and quit celebrating St. Daffyd's Day lest I be accused of not being Canadian enough

Damn it, really? No more St Andrew's day, Robbie Burns Day, St Patick's day slap ups with haggis and Talisker?

[Gunnair]

angler57 angler57:

Who is an IMMIGRATE?
What is IMMIGRATION.
Are they those people from all over the world that do all of the RIGHT things to enter another country?

Who are the ILLEGAL ALIENS?
Are they the one that sneak across national borders in the dark of night?

That kill border guards as happened just yesterday?
That enter thru say, Arizone and scatter all over the USA?

If you come to my country legally. I'll invite you over for a cup of coffee and you will be my friend.

If you sneak into my country and your first act entering here is to break the law.
You are not my friend.
ILLEGAL entry is a breach of the law. Please pick-up your sorry butt and go home.
Or if you folks in Canada want them we'll send them up to Ya'lll.

Don't open up a book on early colonial history in the US then...