[peck420]

Lemmy,

What does it mean when this is the majority of what parents are complaining about at PTA meetings now? They aren't teaching, they play favourites, they're lazy, etc.

I had to sit through many a PTA meeting as a student (awaiting my disciplinary hearings with my parents), and I didn't hear nearly as many complaints about the actual teaching then as I do now (attending PTA meetings at my children's schools).

There seems to be a serious disconnect today, between the teachers and the parents. At least more so than what I remember as a student (experience limited to the local schools that I have to deal with or attended).

[Lemmy]

Excellent questions, Peck. Your "disconnect" hypothesis would make for an interesting research project. I wonder what percentage of parents are involved in their childrens' school lives, through PTAs, etc., compared to, say, 30 years ago. I agree with your general contention on disconnect. I suspect that comes from a lot of factors: the rise of Colleges of Teachers and changes to Education Acts, the adversarial changes in school administration (which has taken principals and VPs from the "labour" to the "management" side), cookie-cutter curriculum and standardized testing, system-wide litigious paranoia and political correctness. Maybe a lot of it is the general lack of respect and decorum that teenagers have today, which has made schools much more stressful workplaces than they were 20 years ago. Or maybe I'm just overestimating the percentage of adults who "get over" their silly teen angst.

[ShepherdsDog]

peck420 peck420:

Lemmy,

What does it mean when this is the majority of what parents are complaining about at PTA meetings now? They aren't teaching, they play favourites, they're lazy, etc.

I had to sit through many a PTA meeting as a student (awaiting my disciplinary hearings with my parents), and I didn't hear nearly as many complaints about the actual teaching then as I do now (attending PTA meetings at my children's schools).

There seems to be a serious disconnect today, between the teachers and the parents. At least more so than what I remember as a student (experience limited to the local schools that I have to deal with or attended).

You sat and waited? I ran and hid.

What I found funny, were the parents who bitched about how hard it was to deal with one or two kids, yet felt the teachers had an easy job, dealing with 20 to 30 bat rastards day in day out.

[Brenda]

ON THE OTHER HAND tho, if teachers claim to be so much of an influence (yes, of course they have a huge impact in a child's life), spending more time with kids than the parents, being a bigger influence than a parent, I take it we can sue the teachers for ALL the fucked up (semi-)adults we have in our world...
After all, it is their profession, and they professionally screwed up all those drug addicts and criminals.
(we usually blame the parents, right?)

[Gunnair]

Sounds like the hammer falls on Friday.

[Lemmy]

Brenda Brenda:

ON THE OTHER HAND tho, if teachers claim to be so much of an influence (yes, of course they have a huge impact in a child's life), spending more time with kids than the parents, being a bigger influence than a parent, I take it we can sue the teachers for ALL the fucked up (semi-)adults we have in our world...
After all, it is their profession, and they professionally screwed up all those drug addicts and criminals. (we usually blame the parents, right?)

Teaching, as a verb, has a "task" and an "achievement" element to it. The "task" part is up to the teacher. The "achievement" part is up to the kid. "You can lead a horse to water..."

[Brenda]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Brenda Brenda:

ON THE OTHER HAND tho, if teachers claim to be so much of an influence (yes, of course they have a huge impact in a child's life), spending more time with kids than the parents, being a bigger influence than a parent, I take it we can sue the teachers for ALL the fucked up (semi-)adults we have in our world...
After all, it is their profession, and they professionally screwed up all those drug addicts and criminals. (we usually blame the parents, right?)

Teaching, as a verb, has a "task" and an "achievement" element to it. The "task" part is up to the teacher. The "achievement" part is up to the kid. "You can lead a horse to water..."

That, apparently, only goes for teachers (nice cop-out!!) and not for parents.

[Lemmy]

I'd say the cop out is the other way around...blaming a kids' "dumbness" on the teacher instead of taking responsibility as a parent. And experience tells me that the apple rarely falls far from the tree.

[Tricks]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Tricks Tricks:

And according to Lemmy, you can't be objective because your GF is a teacher.

Huh? When did I say that? If anything, people who have relationships with teachers are likely to have a more realistic understanding about the realities and challenges of the job.

Bullshit. Emotional attachment is the definition of bias.

$1:

On the other hand, people who's sole understanding of the profession comes from faded (and jaded) teenaged memories tend to be those quickest to bash teachers. Teenagers are selfish, rebellious, know-it-all, immature assholes. ALL of us were, to varying degrees. Those are the defining characteristics of teenagers. How do you know when a teenager's lying? His/her lips are moving.

Oh I get it, if someone is young, they're wrong. That's cool. Sound just like a teacher too. Nice ageism.

[Gunnair]

Tricks Tricks:

Oh I get it, if someone is young, they're wrong. That's cool. Sound just like a teacher too. Nice ageism.

Know your place, junior.

[ShepherdsDog]

Education isn't just a 8/9 to 3/4 process. The parents have to ensure that their children do their homework and study. The parents are crucial to instilling a proper learning/work ethic. A teacher has only so much personal contact time with each student to assess their progress and abilities.

Here, class sizes are much larger, usually 30 - 35 students. If a kid isn't getting the subject during school time, then they are sent to cram school in the afternoon or evening. The parents take a very active role in their child's education...partially because the child is part of the parent's retirement plan. A doctor provides better than a 7-11 clerk.

[Brenda]

Lemmy Lemmy:

I'd say the cop out is the other way around...blaming a kids' "dumbness" on the teacher instead of taking responsibility as a parent. And experience tells me that the apple rarely falls far from the tree.

When the teacher claims their influence on a child is bigger than the influence of a parent, solely because they assumingly spend more time with the child, then the parent is not at fault. It is hard to undo damage a child is exposed to so many hours per year (as in 6 per day, which, apparently, is more than a parent spends on their kids).

[Lemmy]

Tricks Tricks:

Bullshit. Emotional attachment is the definition of bias.

Who said anything about emotional attachment? If you think you know more about teachers from your experiences as a teenager than I've learned from listening to teachers, then I'm the one calling bullshit here. I have no emotional attachment to teachers because my sister's one nor to police because my brother's a cop.

Tricks Tricks:

Oh I get it, if someone is young, they're wrong. That's cool. Sound just like a teacher too. Nice ageism.

I never said you were wrong because you're young. I said I suspected your perspective would change as you become older and, hopefully, wiser. Let go your anger, young Padawan.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

It is hard to undo damage a child is exposed to so many hours per year

This was usually the case working up north. There were some real success stories when the kids were exposed to a stable learning environment and were away from their kith and kin and the general community.

[Tricks]

Lemmy Lemmy:

I'd say the cop out is the other way around...blaming a kids' "dumbness" on the teacher instead of taking responsibility as a parent. And experience tells me that the apple rarely falls far from the tree.

So when the teacher is saying how important they are, they're like the Jesus of raising children. Until something fucks up, then it's the parents fault? Which is it? Is a teacher a major influence on a child's life or not? Can't have it both ways there chief.