[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

The area you're thinking of it between Weston and Laird...it's been like that forever with the parking on either side.

There's no parking at all on Eglinton anywhere East of Laird Dr.

No, I'm thinking of out in the east end...near the Ferrari dealership.

[Bruce_E_T]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Sports is an excellent example of that arrogance. I find it annoying when CBC shows a Maple Leafs game instead of a Senators game, or when TSN decides to suddenly broadcast a Leafs game instead of a Flames game, or how Sportscentre shows all the Toronto's teams results (Leafs, Jays, and Raptors) before showing any other Canadian teams. I understand why networks do it (pandering to their #1 audience), but it doesn't make me like it one bit. Things like that have earned TSN the moniker Toronto Sports Network out west and it's a big reason why many Westerners prefer Rogers Sportsnet, because it isn't always biased towards Toronto the way TSN is.

Good for them.

But big is best. TSN is a business and it goes for the $$$. It would not be so hard to take if the "Hockey Capital of the World" could ice a team that could at least make the playoffs.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

No, I'm thinking of out in the east end...near the Ferrari dealership.

There is no Ferrari dealership in Scarborough, never has been.

There's two Ferrari dealers in Ontario, one in Vaughan and one Downtown on Avenue Rd.

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Lemmy Lemmy:

No, I'm thinking of out in the east end...near the Ferrari dealership.

There is no Ferrari dealership in Scarborough, never has been.

There's two Ferrari dealers in Ontario, one in Vaughan and one Downtown on Avenue Rd.

It may not be a Ferrari dealership, but there's definitely an exotic car lot with Ferraris on it on Eglinton just west of Kingston Rd. I've driven by it 100 times.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Lemmy Lemmy:

No, I'm thinking of out in the east end...near the Ferrari dealership.

There is no Ferrari dealership in Scarborough, never has been.

There's two Ferrari dealers in Ontario, one in Vaughan and one Downtown on Avenue Rd.

It may not be a Ferrari dealership, but there's definitely an exotic car lot with Ferraris on it on Eglinton just west of Kingston Rd. I've driven by it 100 times.

Sorry Lemmy.....there's nothing of the sort.

There was an Acura dealer and a GM Dealer, Marvin Starr. Both are closed. It's now a Wal-Mart. That was West of Markham.

There's only 1 used car lot East of Markham on Eglinton between Kingston Rd, it's called Mehrs (the shop under it certified an old car of mine) and it's nothing close to a place that sells luxury cars.

Anyways, at the end of the day, you must have the road confused with another, unless we're going back 50+ years.

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Sorry Lemmy.....there's nothing of the sort. Anyways, at the end of the day, you must have the road confused with another, unless we're going back 50+ years.

Maybe. I don't think so.

[Khar]

$1:

"you guys"?

I don't live in Toronto.

No, you just lived there for 23 years until recently, continue to work in Toronto, and make oblique references to your in depth knowledge about the situation there on a frequent basis, so the scratchy-head bit is a little off with the impression you could be giving. You've confused Torontonians themselves in the past, and when your chief comment is "I am there all the time and know what I am talking about," well, you can't blame someone for making the logical connections.

And I bet that wherever you live now, you still live in the always present GTA, which is what most of the province refers to by "Toronto." Hence why my examples did not include Scarborough, Ajax or Burlington. You guys might not be taxed the same as downtown core residents, but money still gets sent to support commuters, inter-city transport (like the road we're all talking about here), infrastructure (possible LRT trains to the 'burbs), sewage (insert troll joke here), waste disposal (insert moderator joke here) and so forth for the Toronto area as a whole, due to your interconnected use of that entire regional set up. You all still support the Leafs, you all get the flack.

Municipalities getting support is normal, but suggesting that Toronto is a normal addition to the system is off base, in my opinion. The linked budget wasn't even about things like health care or the like where the province is supposed to step up, it was the basic operating cost of the city's expenditures -- ie, the bit that the city is supposed to be able to handle internally as much as possible. The government steps in mostly to encourage programs the province itself wants to see. The very fact that Toronto has a highly negative value in that regard demonstrates to me that Toronto is a net cost in contrast to other major cities in Ontario.

Funding expenditures and budgets for other major cities in Ontario do not see "provincial involvement" or fee transfers to the same degree, most revenue comes from other than internal processes. As an overall city, London only received 6 million dollars in support, 4.5 million in blanket government subsidies. Last I checked, Toronto was not 400 times the size of London. Guelph received only 424,900 dollars in support, a third of the 1.5 million support London got in direct support, for a city a third the size. Note that even these amounts are fractional parts of the budgets -- London's projects for the coming year alone are 700 million, not including it's operating costs.

For the sake of providing as much information as possible, the Guelph budget also shows exactly where municipal taxes are going -- as you can see by the pie chart, 65% don't go to the province to upkeep programs or get used by the police. That provincial funding was not included in the Toronto, London or Guelph reports I linked before, to give context.

Therefore, you are correct on two counts. You aren't from Toronto, you just sound like you are from Toronto -- no offense. And transfers to municipalities do occur, but the only way it reaches billions is because of Toronto -- and Toronto does that on it's own, with way more than the rest of the province's municipalities combined, from the looks of things. I think so, anyways, but I'm not the smartest dude out there.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Sorry Lemmy.....there's nothing of the sort. Anyways, at the end of the day, you must have the road confused with another, unless we're going back 50+ years.

Maybe. I don't think so.

Well, if you take a second to pull up Google Street View of the area, you'll find out quickly.

I drove down the street today, but what do I know.

[OnTheIce]

Khar Khar:

No, you just lived there for 23 years until recently, continue to work in Toronto, and make oblique references to your in depth knowledge about the situation there on a frequent basis, so the scratchy-head bit is a little off with the impression you could be giving. You've confused Torontonians themselves in the past, and when your chief comment is "I am there all the time and know what I am talking about," well, you can't blame someone for making the logical connections.

I moved out of Toronto almost a decade ago. I didn't continue to work in Toronto, I just started working in Toronto in 2011.

Khar Khar:

And I bet that wherever you live now, you still live in the always present GTA, which is what most of the province refers to by "Toronto." Hence why my examples did not include Scarborough, Ajax or Burlington. You guys might not be taxed the same as downtown core residents,

We're actually taxed more in the burbs.

Khar Khar:

Funding expenditures and budgets for other major cities in Ontario do not see "provincial involvement" or fee transfers to the same degree, most revenue comes from other than internal processes. As an overall city, London only received 6 million dollars in support, 4.5 million in blanket government subsidies. Last I checked, Toronto was not 400 times the size of London. Guelph received

Not sure where you get your numbers, but

Ontario has the OMPF which is the main transfer payment to municipalities.

Guelph received 7.6 million in 2011 or $62/person.

Toronto received 225 million in 2011 or $86/person.

London received 33.9 million in 2011 or $92/person.

Ajax received $0.

Whitby received $0.

[Tricks]

Damn right Whitby! Wooooo!

[OnTheIce]

Peterborough Ontario. $141/person.

Kingston Ontario, $137/person.

[Khar]

$1:

I moved out of Toronto almost a decade ago. I didn't continue to work in Toronto, I just started working in Toronto in 2011.

Ah, I was going by "BTW, I don't live in Toronto anymore but did for 23 years. I currently work in Toronto" and "Not only did I live in Toronto for 23 years, I still have a home in Toronto that I rent. I still pay taxes and utilities on that home" and "I'm also co-owner of a business that operates, buys material, hires labour and pays taxes in Toronto" and "In the end, I'm a Torontonian. I was born in Toronto and have lived in Toronto for over 20 years. My entire family is from Toronto. 3 generations!" which you posted here. Plus, the stuff I thought was implied in your post that I outlined previously.

So I really didn't get the whole "I'm not Torontonian, what are you talking about" vibe I'm getting from you in this thread? It's definitely in contrast to what you've said elsewhere, and this was all confusing the hell out of me.

$1:

We're actually taxed more in the burbs.

... so you don't get taxed the same, like I said in my post? The point was not that you guys paid more, the salient point was that regardless of what you pay, Toronto-based services and infrastructure were used in your neighbourhood as well.

Although I would like to point out your own OMPF source indicates you guys actually do pay more taxes, and are the most heavily taxed when it comes to property taxes in Ontario. Appendix F - "The Greater Toronto Area - Excluding the City of Toronto". That sucks man, I really feel for you -- ever since moving out to Alberta, I've been shocked at how little I had to pay, and apparently London was already quite low in contrast to what you guys have to pay in the GTA (excluding Toronto).

$1:

Not sure where you get your numbers, but

Ontario has the OMPF which is the main transfer payment to municipalities.

Guelph received 7.6 million in 2011 or $62/person.

Toronto received 225 million in 2011 or $86/person.

London received 33.9 million in 2011 or $92/person.

Ajax received $0.

Whitby received $0.

I linked them all in my post, and provided exact page numbers for your convenience -- I can do it again if you want, although it's all in my last few posts (I hope)! All my numbers came directly from the actual monetary transfers which occurred from the point of view of the cities. These values were derived from accounting reports which were provided to all residents of Canada in official budget reports released by the cities in question, and are the official values. Hence, apparently Toronto received more than the entire OMPF provides to all municipalities, according to their very own values, as I linked when I first brought Toronto into this discussion. This must mean there is more than the OMPF providing money transfers, which I do think is safe to say -- lord knows, Ontario is known for having a lot of programs on the run at once, no? Memory serves, you pointed this out yourself as an issue in the "Ford and Mogadishu thread," or whatever it's called -- it's linked above.

It should also be recognized that the values you are using are intrinsically different, since it includes such services as rather than strict support for the city itself, city programs and city infrastructure. As I listed in my last post, the values I posted specifically had to do with support of inter-city programs, not payments which the province has to do anyway to meet it's mandate. Not, since 2008, support for disability assistance, childcare, income and employment assistance and drug programs, as the OMPF includes.

As a final point, if these things are included in the OMPF mandate, I'd really like to see where it said Ajax and Whitby received no money, and I'd really like you to link your sources if possible? Sorry if it's a pain, but I've been wandering through OMPF documents for an hour and can't find a reference to Ajax receiving no money, or Whitby, and it's definitely not because I haven't tried. Again, OMPF sources I've been able to pull (appendix e and f) both point to massive infrastructure deficits in your region/cities (again, supporting what myself, and perhaps Lemmy, have said), indicating some support going to Toronto has to be assisting the burbs, or you HAVE to be recieving some degree of assistance. Especially since drug programs and disability assistance programs are supposed to impact everyone in the province, so if you aren't, that should be a bit of a problem.