[Public_Domain]

[Curtman]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Curtman Curtman:

Why would it skyrocket? The retail price on the black market is such that the gangs can buy a brand new house, fill it full of plants until it's busted and take a total loss on the house yet still make a huge profit. We have a legal medicinal market now, and it charges a lot less than the gangsters do. You can buy it from B.C., and Canada Post will bring it to your door.

Comparing a very tiny amount of processing for select few customers is nothing like a multi-billion dollar industry and bureaucracy that you intend to create...IMO. The government isn't going to tax the shit out of people using it as medicine but will tax the shit out of it for those using it for recreation and no doubt, private companies will get in on the business too.

As someone in business I'd have to ask myself...if customers are already used to paying $x.xx for this product why would I sell it for less if I make and sell it?

I'd love to see data...no opinion, actual data on the effects of crime, how regulation would be handled and the pricing to follow. Just saying "well, we might as well try" isn't good enough.

As my favorite professor used to say "I'm from Missouri, you gotta show me".

Why aren't the gangs undercutting each others prices now? Because that kind of thing gets you shot.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Pol ... story.html

In a regulated market it happens, but not in the black market.

[OnTheIce]

Curtman Curtman:

Why aren't the gangs undercutting each others prices now? Because that kind of thing gets you shot.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Pol ... story.html

In a regulated market it happens, but not in the black market.

But we're not talking about gangs undercutting one another. We're talking about the government undercutting gangs and vise-versa...But if you want to go down that road....

If legalization occurs, gangs will work out the black market price within a short period of time and the price will be set. Does undercutting happen in the black market? Of course....that is until a price is set and everyone is happy making money at the set rate.

[martin14]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Curtman Curtman:

Why aren't the gangs undercutting each others prices now? Because that kind of thing gets you shot.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Pol ... story.html

In a regulated market it happens, but not in the black market.

But we're not talking about gangs undercutting one another. We're talking about the government undercutting gangs and vise-versa...But if you want to go down that road....

If legalization occurs, gangs will work out the black market price within a short period of time and the price will be set. Does undercutting happen in the black market? Of course....that is until a price is set and everyone is happy making money at the set rate.

Hey, they legalized cheese, and look what's happening.

current-events-f59/police-officer-charged-in-cross-border-cheese-smuggling-t102588.html

[Scape]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Scape Scape:

Do gangs run booze?

No.

Why?

No profit in it.

Why?

It's legal.

Remove the profit and you remove the gangs.

With respect Scape, that's completely and utterly false.

Yes, gangs run booze. They run cigarettes too.

Illegal cigarettes is a multi-billion dollar business in Canada alone. 1 of 3 cigarettes sold in Canada are illegal. There are tons of reports and stats about the trade online.

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/research ... 2147483964

You are being coy here. We are both talking about bulk production not fringe so lets not split hairs.

Profit runs crime, remove profit and the crime goes with it. If smokes were 2$ a pack again there would be no smuggeling of cigs either.

[OnTheIce]

Scape Scape:

You are being coy here. We are both talking about bulk production not fringe so lets not split hairs.

Profit runs crime, remove profit and the crime goes with it. If smokes were 2$ a pack again there would be no smuggeling of cigs either.

Scape, if anyone is being "coy" it's you. "Remove profit and the crime goes with it" isn't the solution nor is it that simple.

Of course if booze and cigs were very low prices there would be a huge reduction in the black market but that's not reality.

IMO, there's not a hope in hell that the government is going to get into the weed business and offer the product at all-time low prices. It'll come in at a price high enough to allow the black market to continue to sell and make profits. Sure, there will be a dent in those profits but the desired effect will be a wimper.

[DrCaleb]

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

Can anyone even point out a single confirmed instance of someone ODing on pot? Seriously I'd love to see one.

$1:

Anti-drug campaigner Barry Trottelmann told us “Cannabis is known to be a killer, the active ingredient THC fuses the synapses in the brain and the victims simply forget to breath, this is what is known as monging out”

http://talkingdrugs.org/australian-game ... a-overdose

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

As for the mental effects of pot the worst I've seen is paranoia and the munchies.

$1:

Marijuana gives most people a pleasant "buzz" or high, while others develop paranoia and sometimes psychosis, involving a frightening break from reality, heightened anxiety and hallucinations - symptoms of schizophrenia.

http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/natureo ... facts.html

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

Just like liquor we know giving pot to a kid hampers their growth.

$1:

Scientists liken a teen's brain to his or her messy bedroom. It's a tangled jumble of circuits and it needs to go through a streamlining process to work more efficiently - a process called 'neural pruning'. Scientists believe any substance, like marijuana, that interferes with that untangling of the brain can produce long-lasting and potentially devastating psychological effects.

http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/natureo ... facts.html
http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/natureo ... urces.html

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

Anyone care to point out one permanent long term negative effect from smoking one joint a day? The only long term effect studies I've seen are all focused on heavy users.

$1:

Teenagers who start smoking marijuana before the age of sixteen are four times more likely to become schizophrenic. That's the startling conclusion of some of the world's top schizophrenia experts, whose research is featured in the new documentary The Downside of High.

The scientists' groundbreaking work on the connection between marijuana and mental illness also reveals that, for all young adults, smoking marijuana nearly doubles the risk of developing recurring psychosis, paranoia and hallucinations - the hallmarks of schizophrenia.

http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/natureo ... ideofhigh/

Watch the whole episode:

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Shows/Shows/Th ... 398511775/

[BeaverFever]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Scape Scape:

You are being coy here. We are both talking about bulk production not fringe so lets not split hairs.

Profit runs crime, remove profit and the crime goes with it. If smokes were 2$ a pack again there would be no smuggeling of cigs either.

Scape, if anyone is being "coy" it's you. "Remove profit and the crime goes with it" isn't the solution nor is it that simple.

Of course if booze and cigs were very low prices there would be a huge reduction in the black market but that's not reality.

IMO, there's not a hope in hell that the government is going to get into the weed business and offer the product at all-time low prices. It'll come in at a price high enough to allow the black market to continue to sell and make profits. Sure, there will be a dent in those profits but the desired effect will be a wimper.

Booze and cigs are manufactured products and demand is often brand-specific. In contrast, anyine can grow weed at home. If pot were legal, thered be little profit to be had by government or gangs

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Booze and cigs are manufactured products and demand is often brand-specific. In contrast, anyine can grow weed at home. If pot were legal, thered be little profit to be had by government or gangs

That made me laugh a little...

People aren't going to run out and buy hydroponic equipment on mass. People won't want the hydro costs, the stink and the room taken up for weed.

It'll end up being made by private industry and sold through various outlets that already sell booze or wine and taxed like crazy.

[andyt]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

Can anyone even point out a single confirmed instance of someone ODing on pot? Seriously I'd love to see one.

$1:

Anti-drug campaigner Barry Trottelmann told us “Cannabis is known to be a killer, the active ingredient THC fuses the synapses in the brain and the victims simply forget to breath, this is what is known as monging out”

http://talkingdrugs.org/australian-game ... a-overdose

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

As for the mental effects of pot the worst I've seen is paranoia and the munchies.

$1:

Marijuana gives most people a pleasant "buzz" or high, while others develop paranoia and sometimes psychosis, involving a frightening break from reality, heightened anxiety and hallucinations - symptoms of schizophrenia.

http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/natureo ... facts.html

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

Just like liquor we know giving pot to a kid hampers their growth.

$1:

Scientists liken a teen's brain to his or her messy bedroom. It's a tangled jumble of circuits and it needs to go through a streamlining process to work more efficiently - a process called 'neural pruning'. Scientists believe any substance, like marijuana, that interferes with that untangling of the brain can produce long-lasting and potentially devastating psychological effects.

http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/natureo ... facts.html
http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/natureo ... urces.html

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

Anyone care to point out one permanent long term negative effect from smoking one joint a day? The only long term effect studies I've seen are all focused on heavy users.

$1:

Teenagers who start smoking marijuana before the age of sixteen are four times more likely to become schizophrenic. That's the startling conclusion of some of the world's top schizophrenia experts, whose research is featured in the new documentary The Downside of High.

The scientists' groundbreaking work on the connection between marijuana and mental illness also reveals that, for all young adults, smoking marijuana nearly doubles the risk of developing recurring psychosis, paranoia and hallucinations - the hallmarks of schizophrenia.

http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/natureo ... ideofhigh/

Watch the whole episode:

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Shows/Shows/Th ... 398511775/

You pride yourself on being scientific. Do you really believe people who can say:

$1:

“Dangerous drugs like cannabis kill hundreds of young Australians every year and prevent many others reaching their full potential as sports men through the way that it encourages metrosexual activity“

Don't you think if there was a confirmed case of death by pot overdose the media would be all over it? You swallowed the big one there.

[Unsound]

[quote="andyt]“Dangerous drugs like cannabis kill hundreds of young Australians every year and prevent many others reaching their full potential as sports men through the way that it encourages metrosexual activity“[/quote] [/quote]


Bwahahahaha. Now that is fucking funny. I'm picturing all my old pothead friends arguing over conditioners and loufas.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

You pride yourself on being scientific. Do you really believe people who can say:

$1:

“Dangerous drugs like cannabis kill hundreds of young Australians every year and prevent many others reaching their full potential as sports men through the way that it encourages metrosexual activity“

Don't you think if there was a confirmed case of death by pot overdose the media would be all over it? You swallowed the big one there.

The obvious BS in the article aside, knocking over strawmen is one of my favourite pastimes.

Don't discount the rest of an excellent documentary on the subject because CanadaJeff thinks he has a sure fire excuse to decriminalize. It doesn't have to kill to do harm.

[Zipperfish]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Scape Scape:

You are being coy here. We are both talking about bulk production not fringe so lets not split hairs.

Profit runs crime, remove profit and the crime goes with it. If smokes were 2$ a pack again there would be no smuggeling of cigs either.

Scape, if anyone is being "coy" it's you. "Remove profit and the crime goes with it" isn't the solution nor is it that simple.

Of course if booze and cigs were very low prices there would be a huge reduction in the black market but that's not reality.

IMO, there's not a hope in hell that the government is going to get into the weed business and offer the product at all-time low prices. It'll come in at a price high enough to allow the black market to continue to sell and make profits. Sure, there will be a dent in those profits but the desired effect will be a wimper.

It's not a matter of illegal vs legal as far as the gangs are concerned. It's a matter of money. The gummint put the price of smokes up so much that it became profitable to bring them from the US. Cigarette smuggling was never a problem in the 60s when they were a dime a pack or whatever.

The lessons of prohibition in the US were, in fact, quite simple. Prohibition was passed partly because it was anticipated there would be a massive drop in crime and associated policing costs. Didn't happen. Quite the opposite in fact. Most types of crime, including violent crime, went up.

Of course the gangs will just move on to the next thing down the list--cigarettes, crack, whatever. We can't just legalize everything and hope organized crime goes away.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Booze and cigs are manufactured products and demand is often brand-specific. In contrast, anyine can grow weed at home. If pot were legal, thered be little profit to be had by government or gangs

That made me laugh a little...

People aren't going to run out and buy hydroponic equipment on mass. People won't want the hydro costs, the stink and the room taken up for weed.

It'll end up being made by private industry and sold through various outlets that already sell booze or wine and taxed like crazy.

Holy geez dude, you really have some silly pre-conceived notions about pot smoking and growing. First off, hydroponic equipment is completely unnecessary.
I can grow bomb weed with little more than the cost of soil, some appropriate fertilizer mix, proper lighting and some tinfoil or white paint. Total cost: less than $100 up to $150 to grow indoors. If you know what yer doing, you can get a few pounds of smokable product from just 4-5 plants. That substantially more than offsets the measly start-up cost.
As for the smell, trust me, pot smokers won't care one bit

[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

...

You pride yourself on being scientific.

I was thinking the same thing. I guess when you feel strongly about something, rationality goes out the window for the best of us. It reminds me of the cop who came to our school in Grade 7 and told the guys that science had shown that pot would make you grow tits.

I wonder if they told the girls that?